Did PAIR valve mod - still pops / stutters, high pitched whistle. - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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Did PAIR valve mod - still pops / stutters, high pitched whistle.

Hey guys,

Took the bike apart to clean the air filter and replace the clutch cable, so I decided to go ahead and do the PAIR valve mod since I have an aftermarket exhaust (Two Brothers). Took it out for a test ride- still popped but not as badly, and i noticed this odd high pitched sound at around 5-6k, sort of like how turbo whine sounds.

I have a PC-V running the map for the two brothers exhaust.

Curious what else I could do to reduce the low speed stutter, and eliminate the popping after "loading" the throttle then releasing? Also curious what that odd whine sound could be.
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 06:18 PM
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Did you seal off both the pair valve AND your airbox properly? Did you screw something up? It's very hard for us to determine so over the internet, without a thorough inspection... Having said that, try rotating your main throttle sensor counterclockwise just a tad.

Hold on there. You have a PC-V? Then something is wrong for sure. Lack of fuel at off-throttle.
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
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Did you seal off both the pair valve AND your airbox properly? Did you screw something up? It's very hard for us to determine so over the internet, without a thorough inspection... Having said that, try rotating your main throttle sensor counterclockwise just a tad.

Hold on there. You have a PC-V? Then something is wrong for sure. Lack of fuel at off-throttle.
Blocked everything up with caps. The PC-V _helped_ with the initial stuttering of the bike, but it still lurches a bit at low speed.

I've heard "rotate main throttle sensor counter-clockwise", but not quite sure where that is. Versys is my first fuel injected bike!
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 06:44 PM
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Well, your PC-V should adjust your fuel as required if properly set up... That whistling may be from some vacuum leak somewhere. How are all your hoses and vacuum caps, TB flanges, etc?

Last edited by invader; 02-04-2016 at 07:03 PM.
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 07:58 PM
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when I got my Yoshi pipe I had the 2bros. map installed..it popped like an old fashioned popcorn machine on deceleration...I had my mechanic do a map (ex Honda race team tuner)..nice nice nice...I also did the vacuum port mod for smooth lower rev riding...I'd blame your map...take your bike to a good tuner with a dyno if possible...worth every penny...here in the GNW we are blessed with 2Wheel Dyno Works (who I would've gone to if my mechanic wasn't such a wizard with mapping)...his site has some useful information on tuning and ECU flashing...

2 Wheel DynoWorks | Pacific Northwest Premier Mobile Motorcycle Dyno Tuner

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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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Well, your PC-V should adjust your fuel as required if properly set up... That whistling may be from some vacuum leak somewhere. How are all your hoses and vacuum caps, TB flanges, etc?
All looked to be in pretty good condition- nothing to report that was off.

Bike ran fine at speed-- wouldn't a vacuum leak case some hard stuttering / "slamming into a wall" as the map struggles to compensate?

Strange thing is. When I stopped and held the bike at around 6k, i couldn't hear it. This is one of those phantom problems.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chadams66 View Post
when I got my Yoshi pipe I had the 2bros. map installed..it popped like an old fashioned popcorn machine on deceleration...I had my mechanic do a map (ex Honda race team tuner)..nice nice nice...I also did the vacuum port mod for smooth lower rev riding...I'd blame your map...take your bike to a good tuner with a dyno if possible...worth every penny...here in the GNW we are blessed with 2Wheel Dyno Works (who I would've gone to if my mechanic wasn't such a wizard with mapping)...his site has some useful information on tuning and ECU flashing...

2 Wheel DynoWorks | Pacific Northwest Premier Mobile Motorcycle Dyno Tuner

Yep- have been thinking I should take it to a tuner. There's one a few miles away. Only thing I fear is that it looks like one of those Harley shops, so they'd probably tell me to get bent "with my jap crap crotch rocket bike"
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 08:31 PM
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The whistling sound may be emitted by a vacuum leak, or something else in the admission system... Your lean backfiring manifests itself under engine braking at closed and partly open throttle. It's caused by excess air admitted, or a lack of fuel at low and closed throttle settings. Your fuel map may need to be adjusted by adding fuel if the PC-V's feedback system can't do it on its own.
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 08:59 PM
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the TBS is on the right side of the throttle body make sure to check your exhaust for leaks , air getting sucked in goes pop

yes im a guy.
Silvie=latin for. Of the forest /woods. Fox= Vulpine (also my middle name)

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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
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The whistling sound may be emitted by a vacuum leak, or something else in the admission system... Your lean backfiring manifests itself under engine braking at closed and partly open throttle. It's caused by excess air admitted, or a lack of fuel at low and closed throttle settings. Your fuel map may need to be adjusted by adding fuel if the PC-V's feedback system can't do it on its own.
Wellp- time to mess around with it tomorrow. I checked all of the hoses and as said, they all seemed to be in good condition, so not sure where it could be leaking from.
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
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the TBS is on the right side of the throttle body make sure to check your exhaust for leaks , air getting sucked in goes pop
RIGHT side? It looks to be on the left from everything i've seen.

This thing, right?

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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-05-2016, 01:11 AM
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You have PCV then you can measure EXACTLY the correct voltage the TBS sends when rotating it.
Hook up you PC with Dynojet software you will see the TBS voltage.
Adjust to the upper limit of specification - this takes the guess work out of 'rotate it clockwise a little'.
It also makes it easier to return it back to stock!
Write down all your values before before playing so you can go back.

Now with surging - well you will never eliminate it... I have remove 90% of it.
search for my posts.
I have PCV and AutoTune 200.

So with engine braking and exhaust popping, You will need to reduce it as you have a Two-Brother exhaust which uses glass fiber packing material for silencer. Backfires and Popping will burn up the packing, and you will have to repack the exhaust more frequently.

So how do you reduce the popping, well you need to play with your fuel map.
Basically you need to contol the fueling in the Zero % throttle column - how much to add???
I will say that if you only have a PCV then you will need dyno tuning - as you set fueling from AFR's.
If you have the AutoTune200 (like me) you can add AFR values in the AFR ZERO column to force correct fueling to happen on decelleration. (by default all ZERO % throttle values = ZERO which means use factory value)
Having added some AFR's it does reduce popping ALOT!, but will not eliminate it - mine burbles nicley now
This will also reduce some of the engine braking hashness.
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Last edited by Gigitt; 02-05-2016 at 01:16 AM.
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-05-2016, 01:27 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Gigitt View Post
You have PCV then you can measure EXACTLY the correct voltage the TBS sends when rotating it.
Hook up you PC with Dynojet software you will see the TBS voltage.
Adjust to the upper limit of specification - this takes the guess work out of 'rotate it clockwise a little'.
It also makes it easier to return it back to stock!
Write down all your values before before playing so you can go back.

Now with surging - well you will never eliminate it... I have remove 90% of it.
search for my posts.
I have PCV and AutoTune 200.

So with engine braking and exhaust popping, You will need to reduce it as you have a Two-Brother exhaust which uses glass fiber packing material for silencer. Backfires and Popping will burn up the packing, and you will have to repack the exhaust more frequently.

So how do you reduce the popping, well you need to play with your fuel map.
Basically you need to contol the fueling in the Zero % throttle column - how much to add???
I will say that if you only have a PCV then you will need dyno tuning - as you set fueling from AFR's.
If you have the AutoTune200 (like me) you can add AFR values in the AFR ZERO column to force correct fueling to happen on decelleration. (by default all ZERO % throttle values = ZERO which means use factory value)
Having added some AFR's it does reduce popping ALOT!, but will not eliminate it - mine burbles nicley now
This will also reduce some of the engine braking hashness.
Solid write-up, Gigitt. People told me to ignore the popping, but I have often wondered what it's doing. I've always heard it's bad for the exhaust valves, and now it makes sense the damage it'd do to the packing.

Now- when people say Rotate it, it's just turning the screw to adjust a setting, right? Or is it physically turning the entire unit?

I guess i've been reluctant to screw around with the electronics (as said, i've only dealt with carbs and this is my first FI bike ever), I fear i may screw it up. But it does give me hope that I have some way to see my adjustments instead of guessing / marking them, since it seems pretty fine.

Seems I have some things to go over and play with. Is the adjustment in the picture i sent above, on the left side of the bike?
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-05-2016, 01:48 AM
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Glass fiber packing gets flattened, fractures and breaks down into smaller fibers when you backfire or exhausts pop. These smaller fiber get blown out the exhaust. Some times you see a bloke reving the [email protected] out of the bike with flames and sparks coming out of the exhaust... well the sparks are probably red hot glass fibers being blown out... or he is melting his pistons. LOL

In you picture, the silver bolt at 7 o'clock is a locking bolt.
Under the bolt is a elongated hole that allows the whole unit to rotate.
Undo the bolt (you do not remove it) so that you can rotate the TPS.
Use the PCV software to see the voltage change to where you wan it, then tighten the screw back down. Simple.

This works as the PCV actually splices into the TPS connector... PCV needs to know your throttle position right?
Once you set the TPS voltage to what you want. you will need to re-calibrate your PCV throttle range. In one of the Menus there will be option "Throttle Calibration'. Click reset then rotate the throttle from 0% to 100%. then click OK.
Throttle calibration is part of the install of a PCV on a bike.
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-05-2016, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongoose View Post
RIGHT side? It looks to be on the left from everything i've seen.

This thing, right?

ya right.....i ment left .... sorry im an idiot and looking at my bike backwards xD
and ya you wanna make it so you can tell where it started at then loosen the screw i tiny bit then rotate it ever so slightly and re-tighten screw

yes im a guy.
Silvie=latin for. Of the forest /woods. Fox= Vulpine (also my middle name)

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Last edited by silviefox; 02-05-2016 at 05:51 AM.
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-05-2016, 08:23 AM
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Look at the green reference mark on the front of main throttle sensor (lower grey), before rotating it counterclockwise by about 1mm.

Last edited by invader; 02-05-2016 at 08:26 AM.
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-16-2016, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
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So finally got around to working on it today-- been cold / rainy / snowy here, and it sucks being outside.

I noticed immediately that PowerCommander was registering my throttle as 1%, even without me touching it. Looked at the calibration, and once it warmed up, it stayed at 1.040v - seems a bit high. Should I rotate it back to within spec, which is if i recall - 1.005 - 1.035v?

I'm also a little hazy about how to do the calibration afterwards. Do you just rev the crap out of it? Seems it's only sensing throttle position / voltage when the bike is running.
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-16-2016, 07:26 PM
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If you have adjusted the throttle positions ensue by slightly rotating it. Then the PCV is now reading higher values. You have to reset the TPS range in PowerCommander software. You do his with ignition ON but engine not running do sensors have power. This will then change the 0-100% range PCV reads to apply the correct value from the PCV maps.


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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-16-2016, 08:00 PM Thread Starter
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If you have adjusted the throttle positions ensue by slightly rotating it. Then the PCV is now reading higher values. You have to reset the TPS range in PowerCommander software. You do his with ignition ON but engine not running do sensors have power. This will then change the 0-100% range PCV reads to apply the correct value from the PCV maps.


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Haven't rotated it yet, no.
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-17-2016, 03:39 AM
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If you have added a PCV then one of the initial install steps is to connect the computer to it and do a TPS Configuration... I mentioned this in post #44 above.

Did you install it?
Did a Dealer?
Was it already on the Bike from a previous owner?

You can easily do it.
Connect USB cable to PC running the PowerCommander Software.
with Ignition OFF the Software will still power the PCV and you can manage Maps etc.
I think you have to turn Ignition to ON to power the Bike's electronics, then the PCV Software will allow you to calibrate the TPS. before you calibrate you can see the current values the TPS is giving on screen - it must be 0-100% Min to Max. anything else you must recalibrate.
find the Throttle calibration option just reset it... then twist the throttle gently and you can see voltage values. Go from Zero position to FULL throttle a couple of times. Once it has values then accept them.
and it is done.
No starting the bike etc.

You can start the bike and you will now see rpm's ETC and when you rotate the throttle you will see a selected cell highlight on the map and move as you go through the revs etc.

Last edited by Gigitt; 02-17-2016 at 03:41 AM.
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