Oil Top off? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-20-2010, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
csa714's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 323
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Oil Top off?

Hi all -

Read a lot of threads 3 to 4k before changing oil - and not waiting the 6k per the manual...fine but my question is....do you top it off during the 3 to 4k - to keep it full or nearly so- or do you let it go down to lower levels...

I've put 1200 miles on mine recently and the oil level was down 1/4" (still within the min max lines)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



Foo Fighter Rider
csa714 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-20-2010, 09:16 PM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,827
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
It's better to keep level close to maximum line, without surpassing it. Mine doesn't go down enough to show between 2500 mile oil changes so far... You can add a gulp or two to keep at a good level.
invader is offline  
post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-20-2010, 09:24 PM
Super Moderator
 
kiwi 41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 44.24'S 171.15'E Timaru, NewZealand
Posts: 8,619
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via Skype™ to kiwi 41
Just curious invader why you change at 2500 mile, my manual says every 12,000km yet you changing every 4000km??
kiwi 41 is offline  
 
post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-20-2010, 09:42 PM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,827
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
I just haven't had a chance yet. I broke in my new 2007 in 2008, then we got record rainfall and early end of riding season here in 2009 when I only logged 3000 Kms (1900 miles)... I would normally go up to about 5000 kms (3000 miles) between oil changes. There's only just over 2 liters of oil taking care of engine, tranny and clutch. 12000 kms is ridiculous. I would never subject my machine to such a level of neglect.
invader is offline  
post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-20-2010, 09:54 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston, tx
Posts: 623
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
There's only just over 2 liters of oil taking care of engine, tranny and clutch. 12000 kms is ridiculous. I would never subject my machine to such a level of neglect.
I've heard that several times, but what does the amount of oil have to do with it? Will 2 quarts of oil break down faster than 4 quarts of the same oil? If the engine is designed for a smaller amount?
rumbo75 is offline  
post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-20-2010, 09:55 PM
Super Moderator
 
kiwi 41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 44.24'S 171.15'E Timaru, NewZealand
Posts: 8,619
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via Skype™ to kiwi 41
Then my next question is why did Kawaski put that frequency of change in the manual?
kiwi 41 is offline  
post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-21-2010, 07:13 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Kawasaki engineers determine the correct change interval based on oil protection and cost of ownership. There is no WAY they would recommend an oil change interval that is harming the engine, no way. Why, because of a warranty and because in this great country if people discovered that an mfg was recommending an oil change interval that caused excessive wear and tear they would sue the crap out of that company and win millions of dollars. The amount of oil is immaterial, the engine is ONLY a 650, it is a tiny motor, despite how it may look on the outside. Think about your car engine, 3, 4 or 5 liter engines, that is 3000, 4000 or 5000cc engines hold "only" 5 quarts of oil or LESS in modern cars and most come with oil life monitors that call for changes anywhere from 7500 to 10000 miles. Hell my BMW called for oil changes every 15k.

Sure, the oil doesn't go through a tranny and the engines do not rev as high, but on the flip side cars run hotter, idle more, sit in more stop and go traffic which is 1000000 times worse for oil.

Think about that for a moment and then also consider that you can get up to 5 years UNLIMITED mileage warranty for your bike for a few hundred dollars. Do you really think Kawasaki would put all this risk to save the consumer a few dollars in oil change costs?

If you doubt this, go take a sample of your oil at the 5k mark and send it to a lab for testing. For a few bucks they will tell you how well the oil is protecting your engine and a lot of other useful information. You cannot go by the color of your oil and assume because it is dark it is not protecting your engine.

That being said most people change their oil way too often for peace of mind and their own comfort. Nothing wrong with that at all, but IMHO a 2500 mile oil change interval, unless that is all you have ridden in a year is a waste of money, while it is only a few bucks, it is still tossing money away when a longer interval provide the exact same protection.

Now you will read people state the bike shifts smoother or runs cooler or even sounds different with fresh oil, and that may or may not be so, but the fact is, if you change your oil every 5k or at least once at the end of the season, which ever comes first you are doing no less harm to your bike than if you changed it every 2k.

Last edited by marc11; 06-21-2010 at 07:16 AM.
marc11 is offline  
post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-21-2010, 09:11 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wisconsin, 25 miles north of Milwaukee
Posts: 1,567
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Yeah... but... draining out dark, dirty oil and replacing it with fresh clean oil is strangely satisfying. I even use dino oil so I can do it more often. ;o )
trialsguy is offline  
post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-21-2010, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
csa714's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 323
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
soooo...if you top off your oil - let's say 2 pints at a time at 1500 mile intervals, after the 3000 mile you would always have 50% new oil and 50% "old" oil. Why change at all until the filter needs it at the Kawa recommendation (for broken in bikes)??


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



Foo Fighter Rider
csa714 is offline  
post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-21-2010, 04:14 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NJ and WV
Posts: 602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
After break-in, I change the oil every three months or 3,000 miles, whichever comes first. I do the same on my car, pickup and piston-engine airplane. Imagination or not, I think I feel a difference in performance and mpg initially after the oil is changed.

If I'm right, then the more frequent changes help. If I'm wrong, then more frequent changes don't help, but also don't hurt, only costing me a little extra each year, but a pittance out of total cost.

If you're right that long duration oil usage is ok, then long-duration is ok. If you're wrong, then performance will be off, and wear will be accelerated. And your ultimate cost may be very expensive.

I like and use AmsOil. AmsOil preaches long change-intervals. I don't follow that recommendation. I'm happy with my results. Will never know if I'd gotten the same results with long change intervals. But am happy anyway.
ScottyNeal is offline  
post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-21-2010, 07:18 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
I am not wrong, you may be right, but I am sure I am not wrong in my comments.
marc11 is offline  
post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-21-2010, 07:52 PM
naz
Member
 
naz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hellas EU
Posts: 300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
marc 11 you forget to mention something important in your overall good thinking.
periodic maintenance ,such as oils filters,sparks etc plays a significant role in some people minds when they come to the decision to buy a new bike or car.
the overall advantages of industries like kawasaki relay on good name-reliability and cheap maintenance .you understand that its an oxymoron concept but Japanese industries strive hard to accomplish the two opposite entities...
when people decide to change the oil in shorter intervals,or to treat the bike better than they should,or than the bike would expect,they do it because :
1.they like to do it
2.is cheap or not so expensive you decide
3.it provides better mileage-profit in the long run
4.it provides greater longevity of the moving parts-profit
5.a clean engine provides higher power and does it cooler
for all the above reasons and a hundred more an owner like me,who sees the future still riding this bike ,decides to be a good owner or lets say better than the manual describes.
there are people like to treat the machines this way,but the coin has two sides.usually the other side is in the road or in the track where the engine is in red zone constantly and you have a big smile and you both are happy
naz is offline  
post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-21-2010, 08:26 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Hillsburrito
Posts: 1,018
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyNeal View Post
Imagination or not, I think I feel a difference in performance and mpg initially after the oil is changed.
Pure imagination. As oil wears, it looses some viscosity, so the effect should actually be reversed, as lower viscosity oil would create less friction losses and give you both higher performance and MPG. I've read lots of tests/articles that analyzed oil as it wore in the engine, and they all seem to consistently indicate that the biggest drop happens in the first 1000 miles or so and after that the wear (and viscosity loss) tapers off. In essence, what this means is that replacing your oil too often is really counter productive, as it could last a lot longer without losing much of its performance. That's why newer cars and bikes have these significantly extended oil change intervals (much to Jiffy Lube's chagrin, although it doesn't stop them from pushing the "holy" 3K change interval) .

Back on topic - my engine uses no oil between intervals I change it at. It was broken in using the high loading break-in method and sees lots of high RPM use in my regular riding (I don't commute, so mostly weekend rides).

Gustavo


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Gustavo is offline  
post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-21-2010, 08:33 PM
naz
Member
 
naz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hellas EU
Posts: 300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by csa714 View Post
soooo...if you top off your oil - let's say 2 pints at a time at 1500 mile intervals, after the 3000 mile you would always have 50% new oil and 50% "old" oil. Why change at all until the filter needs it at the Kawa recommendation (for broken in bikes)??
its not like this.the oil is a synthesis of different chemical substances.while the lighter substances evaporates faster in higher temps the heavier remains.
if you just fill oil every time,while the quantity may be the same the quality always will degrade and the total will have higher concentration of heavier substances.the heavier substances (mostly heavy metals like molybdenium) in higher concentrations than the original product may be a cause of temperature spikes in the overall thermal behavior of the fluid.by circulating a unbalanced fluid like this you can harm your engine in the long run.
the real problem you should seek causes is why the oils quantity lessens so fast .i would bet you use lower viscosity index than you should.in braking period its justified to have oils quantity changed but not so rapidly.if it persists with higher viscosity oil after breaking period you should visit the dealer to check the piston rings and the internals of the engine...

Last edited by naz; 06-21-2010 at 08:59 PM.
naz is offline  
post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-21-2010, 08:39 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Reading, Pa
Posts: 691
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
just got an oil analysis back for a motorcycle of mine that has 37500 miles on it. I changed the oil every 2500 miles (manufacture recommends 5000 miles) .The company that did the analysis said the test showed typical wear levels were much lower than average for this type of engine with the amount of miles on the oil. Their recommendation in the notes section was to change the oil at 3500 miles.

Last edited by turn8a; 06-21-2010 at 08:46 PM.
turn8a is online now  
post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-21-2010, 08:46 PM
Member
 
stlee29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bukit Mertajam,Penang,Malaysia
Posts: 3,187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Thanks, Turn8a. Interesting data from your oil analysis. 3500 miles = 5632 km.

My V Blog:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ride safe,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
stlee29 is offline  
post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-21-2010, 08:53 PM
naz
Member
 
naz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hellas EU
Posts: 300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
turn8a i would like to see the results posted here or in the specific synthetic oil thread.
gustavo you are correct about the loss of kinematic viscosity drop on the first 1000 miles.
but have in mind that the oil is not only its viscosity.if it was like this we would buy the cheapest 10w-40 and we would be happy.the real advantage of the synthetics is that they keep the protective film on the metal surfaces in higher temps.while the viscosity may persist the ability to maintain a solid film lowers in analogy with time.by changing oil faster you just renew the vital substances that keep this film solid.thats why people have the feeling of engine runs better after changing oil.its not the viscosity,its the metal to metal contact that gives this smooth feeling.
naz is offline  
post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-21-2010, 08:54 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Reading, Pa
Posts: 691
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlee29 View Post
Thanks, Turn8a. Interesting data from your oil analysis. 3500 miles = 5632 km.
no problem ....In all fairness that was for an air cooled v twin motor. In a couple of weeks I will have 3000 miles on my versys oil change (10500 total mileage on the bike ) I will send a sample off for analysis and report back with the findings.
turn8a is online now  
post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-21-2010, 09:10 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Reading, Pa
Posts: 691
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz View Post
turn8a i would like to see the results posted here or in the specific synthetic oil thread.
Im still trying to figure out how to post the results .LOL The test was done by http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ .If there is a specific value you would like to know I would be more than glad to share that with the forum.
turn8a is online now  
post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-21-2010, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
csa714's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 323
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
If I pour gas in with the oil, will it increase my V's power?






Kidding A little humor at the end of a long day


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



Foo Fighter Rider
csa714 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Versys Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome