Surging - Kawasaki Versys Forum
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-08-2015, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Surging

I know this seems to have been discussed on the forum but wanted to share my experience to see if it helps anyone else.

Bought a V with a few problems and wasted money with so called experts so below is how I diagnosed my problem and propose to cure it.

Be tween 3 - 5 k revs the bike seems to suffer from engine surge and I felt that the engine was going lean and rich quickly.

I suspected TPS etc but all was well, also thought that as the valves are overdue a service that that could be the problem but the bike started ok and idled smooth enough for a twin so probably not a tight valve.

My next suspect was the O2 sensor on the exhaust but thought it should be ok as no faults are registered(had a bike mechanic read codes).

I got the bike up to temperature and back probed the O2 sensor wire to my digital multimeter, O2 sensors read roughly between .1 and .9 volts. .1 is lean and .9 rich. A digital multimeter is not the best way to check the signal better to use a scope but don't have one to hand. Anyway mine at idle was sitting around .954v and when revved would go down to .2v etc, very lean. Holding a steady 3 - 4k revs would also see a lean mixture. The sensor also seemed to be slow to react to the revs, I think the problem is located! Before spending anymore money on this bike I just unplugged the sensor and took the bike for a spin, WOW different bike indeed, no surging etc a pleasure to ride again. The ECU takes over and sets a default value as it is not getting a signal from the sensor.

So I seem to have a lazy O2 sensor that is not reacting quick enough to the engine speeds and demands.I have now found out that the older ECUs don't register a fault as they are still getting a signal and that is all they are looking for. The newer OBD II systems also look at the performance of the signal and would register a fault, so I am told.

I don't £135+ at the moment to spend on a sensor so have ordered an O2 eliminator from eBay, this will turn the light off and give the computer an average reading, fingers crossed.

Hope this helps someone or if anybody thinks I am way off please let me know.....

08 Versys 650
87 VF500
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-08-2015, 06:21 PM
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Well that is what I would have done.

When you pull the O2 sensor, the ECU might use a limp mode map.
Putting in an O2 sensor eliminator will make the ecu use real maps.
It is not the best thing to do, but at least the ecu will see a stable O2 reading and not a fluctuating or slow reading from a faulty sensor.

Hope this smooths it out for you.

You could also try balancing the throttle bodies and doing the vacuum hose mod (link hose between both throttle bodies instead of blocking them off)

Some have tried to clean the O2 sensor - doing this could damage it.
Is the sensor contaminated? (dirty and grimy?)
What about the Spark Plugs?

Last edited by Gigitt; 09-08-2015 at 06:28 PM.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-09-2015, 01:52 AM Thread Starter
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Plan to have the throttle bodies balanced next week. Have been looking at the postings on the mod to link the vacuums, results seem a bit mixed but I don't think it will hurt to try. I have been advised not to waste my time cleaning the sensor for the reason you stated. New plugs in the bike so they are good.

Do you know if the eliminators have electronics in them?

08 Versys 650
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-09-2015, 02:06 AM
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generally the O2 eliminators have resistors jumping across connectors so the ecu sees an AFR of 13.4 or 13.6 and probably bike specific.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-10-2015, 03:29 PM
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If you end up needing a new main throttle sensor which is only available with the complete throttle bodies assembly, you can actually get one on its own as listed for a Hyosung 650.

Hyosung part # 13580HP9310

http://www.hyosungsource.com/index.p...oducts_id=1917

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-OEM-...item258bd9c3df

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Hyosung-Throt...55efa2&vxp=mtr

Last edited by invader; 09-10-2015 at 03:32 PM.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-27-2015, 08:40 PM
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Excellent news. I thought it was absurd that Kawi didn't offer the TPS individually, to begin with.

How did you figure out the interchange?

Thanks for sharing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
If you end up needing a new main throttle sensor which is only available with the complete throttle bodies assembly, you can actually get one on its own as listed for a Hyosung 650.

Hyosung part # 13580HP9310

Genuine Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) Hyosung GT650R GV650 [13580HP9310] - $30.88 : HyosungSource.com, Hyosung Parts at Unbeatable Prices

Genuine Throttle Position Sensor for HYOSUNG GT650 EFI GV650 EFI | eBay

Hyosung Throttle Position Sensor FOR GT650 GT650R GV650 EFI GT650P GT650RC ST7 | eBay
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-27-2015, 11:03 PM
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How did you figure out the interchange?
I don't remember.

http://koreanbikeparts.com/index.php...ung-gv650.html

Last edited by invader; 09-27-2015 at 11:05 PM.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-27-2015, 11:07 PM
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No problem, good find-- thanks again for sharing!

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I don't remember.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-27-2015, 11:14 PM
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This is how the stroke of genius all manifested itself, back on June 12th...

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Originally Posted by invader View Post
It could be a problem with your main throttle sensor (TPS)... It's only available new with the throttle bodies assembly.

Engine dies at 8500rpm. ?? - Kawasaki Versys Forum

I measured its voltage output, but you could more easily measure your main throttle sensor's resistance across its full range, to confirm if its not smooth and progressive as it should; With an ohmmeter on the upper and middle prongs on the lower grey throttle sensor after pulling out its connector.

TPS Adjustment - Kawasaki Versys Forum

http://www.hyosung.hu/download/pdf/d...e%20Manual.pdf


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-KLE...019471&vxp=mtr

06 Kawasaki EX650 EX 650 R EX650R Ninja Carb Sensor B 20 | eBay

Now I've just made an interesting discovery... You can get a new main throttle sensor, as listed for Hyosung 650!

Hyosung part # 13580HP9310

Genuine Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) Hyosung GT650R GV650 [13580HP9310] - $30.88 : HyosungSource.com, Hyosung Parts at Unbeatable Prices

HYOSUNG Throttle Position Sensor for GT650 GT650R GV650 EFI GT650P GT650RC ST7 | eBay

Genuine Throttle Position Sensor for HYOSUNG GT650 EFI GV650 EFI | eBay
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-04-2015, 06:05 AM
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Ok, so if I read this thread correctly, if you have a surging bike at about 4k then you have a slow O2 sensor, and eliminating it cures the problem.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-04-2015, 09:41 AM
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That Hyosung TPS looks just like the primary TPS on my GSX-R:

Hayabusa GSXR 600 750 1000 Secondary TPS Sensor Throttle Bodies 0S8 | eBay

I wouldn't be surprised if they are actually the same, I'll have to compare them.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-04-2015, 03:26 PM
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Looks like PAIR interferes with O2 sensor readings between 3-5k.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-04-2015, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berty77 View Post
Ok, so if I read this thread correctly, if you have a surging bike at about 4k then you have a slow O2 sensor, and eliminating it cures the problem.
No... you will run in limp mode.
using an O2 eliminator only puts your ecu into a false A/F ratio for the whole rev range and that is not the best thing to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berty77 View Post
Looks like PAIR interferes with O2 sensor readings between 3-5k.
have you actually searched yet.

My Fix

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...totune200.html
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