starter pressed and ignition off to on? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-08-2010, 04:54 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 295
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
starter pressed and ignition off to on?

Hello people,

Still no VeeVee (2 week waitlist) but i am curious about one thing.

I have read somewhere around here that turning on the ignition, then off, then keeping the starter pushed in and turning ignition on will start the engine but the ecu will be in a different state. Canīt remember now what it was, could someone enlighten me ?

thks
ninogui is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-08-2010, 07:12 PM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,830
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
You can start engine by holding starter switch before turning ignition on, and being ready to quickly release starter switch as soon as engine starts. This allows starting engine without having the subthrottle servo cycling, and without engaging cold-engine fast-idle.
invader is offline  
post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-08-2010, 10:35 PM
Member
 
Hardware's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,229
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
You can start engine by holding starter switch before turning ignition on, and being ready to quickly release starter switch as soon as engine starts. This allows starting engine without having the subthrottle servo cycling, and without engaging cold-engine fast-idle.

Looking at it as a troubleshooting / emergency procedure — is there any downside to this method?

Thanks

~~ Live Like You're Dying ~~
Hardware is offline  
 
post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 01:16 AM
Member
 
stlee29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bukit Mertajam,Penang,Malaysia
Posts: 3,187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
I think it's not a good practice for allowing the ECU to bypass it's programming.

My V Blog:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ride safe,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
stlee29 is offline  
post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 01:51 AM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,830
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
I never tried it. The automatic fast idle is good to get the oil flowing to the head and to warm up engine quicker.
invader is offline  
post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 02:33 AM
Super Moderator
 
Fastoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ipoh.Perak.Malaysia
Posts: 6,783
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
When staring engine its always better to have cold start mode run in as it will warm up the engine without any undue effect to the engine. The ECU is programmed to take care of teh engine during the warm up phase.

Bypassing the warm up phase is not adviable on the long run as you tend to load the engine at a much faster rate.

Fastoman is offline  
post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 01:14 PM
Member
 
TowerMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Biggar, Scotland.
Posts: 272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninogui View Post
Hello people,
Still no VeeVee (2 week waitlist) but i am curious about one thing.
I have read somewhere around here that turning on the ignition, then off, then keeping the starter pushed in and turning ignition on will start the engine but the ecu will be in a different state. Canīt remember now what it was, could someone enlighten me ?;thks
thks
We discussed this topic on the UK forum.

"My surging cured"

My discussion / Comments are quoted below for those not registered there yet

It's all to do with getting rid of the surging that none of the US bikes experience, as they are not fitted with O2 sensors.

Richard

Quote:
Originally Posted by TowerMan on UK Forum

The science of O2 sensors as I understand it FWIW.

From what I have gleaned on this subject from my car tuning days is that on our European specification bikes, is that a 'closed loop clean air' system is used to read the Oxygen sensor (lambda) located in the exhaust pipe, and under certain conditions, temporarily change the air/fuel ratio to stoichiometric” value of 14.7:1. This is to provide a chemically efficient burn for low rpm cruising and to aid emissions.

The closed loop circuit has a very limited operating range, which is only in effect while holding a steady speed at certain rpm and throttle positions. This ratio, while good for the environment, creates flat spots and a lack of torque that is required in certain instances, even in the low rpm area.

The Oxygen sensor can be disconnected but this will trip the F.I. warning light on the bikes dash.

You can either, by using Dynojet jet Oxygen sensor eliminator ~ Ģ20.00 or make your own Oxygen sensor eliminators by installing 330 ohm - ― Watt resister across the heater leads to the OEM sensor to stop the FI warning light illuminating / giving an error.

Unfortunately some Ecu's aren't fooled by the O2-eliminator mod and when it enters closed loop mode, it tries to adjust the air/fuel ratio. Unfortunately, any adjustments the ECU makes won't register because the O2-eliminators are sending a constant signal to the computer. So the ECU continues to adjust the air/fuel mixture in a vain attempt to reach stoichiometric ratio and it eventually leans out the air/fuel mixture so much that the engine loses a ton of power. Then when you twist the throttle a bit, the ECU leaves closed loop mode and goes back to the default map. The engine suddenly makes power again and the bike lurches violently forward.

Ironically, the O2-eliminators are suppose to make the ECU think everything as just fine when it enters closed loop mode, but it instead has cause some bikes to surge severely.

The trick around this is to prevent the bike from entering closed loop mode. On some bikes you can fool the ECU not to go into closed loop mode by starting the bike before it has completed its FI / ECU boot up process

If you start the bike before the ECU finishes its boot up cycle, then it won't go into closed loop later. My guess is that by starting the bike before the ECU boots up causes an error in the ECU. To protect the bike, the ECU loads the default map and sticks with it. So, once you turn the ignition on, start your bike immediately and you shouldn't have any more surging issues. (Likewise, there's no reason this wouldn't work for bikes without O2-eliminators either).

This is a suggested start up procedure that could work:

1) Turn ON ignition.
2) Put the bike into neutral.
3) Wait for the fuel pump to prime the fuel system etc.
4) Then Switch OFF the ignition.
5) Push and HOLD on the starter button with right thumb,
6) With left hand, turn ON ignition, (Bike starts)
7) release starter button.

This seems to take the O2 sensor out of the closed loop mode and the bike then runs in open loop all the time.

Sorry if this is above some peoples heads but iv,e tried to put into as much plain Scots as I can

Have fun experimenting.

Richard

Last edited by TowerMan; 06-09-2010 at 05:28 PM.
TowerMan is offline  
post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 03:26 PM
Super Moderator
 
fasteddiecopeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kelowna, BC - summer; Florence, AZ - winter
Posts: 17,380
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Invader:
You seem to be in the know - is the starter circuit dis-armed once the engine has started? (Meaning - if you pushed the starter button AGAIN after the engine's running, what happens?) Thanks.

Ed
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


'08 V AZ, '15 V650LT BC
Ride to D2D 2013, June '13

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Ride to D2D 2015, June '15

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Ride to D2D 2016, June '16

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fasteddiecopeman is offline  
post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-09-2010, 07:16 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 295
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
wow.. so thatīs where i read it, in the uk forum!

of course if guys over in the us do not have o2 sensors (environment not thankful lol) then of course issue is not discussed here.

but pretty much overseas you nailed it!

will try that once i get the veevee lol then well see

always learning
ninogui is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Versys Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome