Do you believe in 'bad batches"? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-25-2015, 06:15 PM Thread Starter
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Do you believe in 'bad batches"?

Been riding for thirty years, many miles, numerous bikes. I am not utterly anal but, I make sure my bikes are kept in good running order.
Went for a ride with a friend this morning. We met up about half the hundred mile distance between our homes. We ate breakfast then headed out. About fifteen miles up the road, after making a turn, I hear some squeaking and rattling, so immediately pull over. Chain is toast. Binding, lot of lateral play in many of the rollers. 2012 650 that I purchased new. A little over 6700 miles. Switched to a 44 tooth rear not too long after buying. Stock DID VP2 chain. Wiped down with kerosene and coated with Maxima Chain Wax every few hundred miles, except for a couple of longer stretches of 700-800 miles on an interstate trip last year.
Cut todays ride short, after stopping at an autoparts store and picking up a can of chain spray to quiet the noise, and limped home. Put it up in the rear stand, and as I am spinning, I start noticing missing o-rings on many links. Plucked one out with a pick to inspect: it is an x-ring, somewhat pliable but fairly hard, definitely not brittle.
Buddy made comment that he felt chain was too tight with me sitting on bike. I have always kept it in spec. His next comment was interesting: he thinks the chain riding so close to the stock muffler could predispose it to early lube/ring failure due to heat. Touch my chain and it's scorching hot, touch his (he is on a ZRX) and it is barely warm. We've ridden together, same speed, same distance.
Did an internet search of the VP2 chain and find a couple of cases of early demise but, not widespread horror stories. Blamed on it being made in Thailand...lol.
Thoughts? Did I just happen to get a dud chain? Do I trade the bike in on a Tenere?

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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-25-2015, 07:55 PM
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Mate of mine who is a bike mechanic was horrified when I told him I washed my chain with kero, he said kero eats rubber. I had a Japanese made DID and it only lasted 20,000 km a bit less than the OEM Thai made DID.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-25-2015, 08:15 PM
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Kerosene eats rubber (so does wd40 but not as fast) and the exesive heat was due to your chains condition not the muffler. I did a 30 aggressive miles and my chain was warm but but nowhere close to hot.

yes im a guy.
Silvie=latin for. Of the forest /woods. Fox= Vulpine (also my middle name)

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-25-2015, 10:21 PM
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My OEM chain threw O-rings at 15,000 miles. Replacement looking good with 14, 000 give r take on it.

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-25-2015, 11:58 PM
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At 6000 miles my chain has been a non issue. I got the letter from Kawi this week telling me my one year warranty is up soon and offered me a great deal to them, what a rip off!
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
His next comment was interesting: he thinks the chain riding so close to the stock muffler could predispose it to early lube/ring failure due to heat. Touch my chain and it's scorching hot, touch his (he is on a ZRX) and it is barely warm. We've ridden together, same speed, same distance.
Did an internet search of the VP2 chain and find a couple of cases of early ...
The heat of the chain doesn't absolutely come from the exhaust

If it was in a bad state at the begining of the ride, it surely overheated from running inapropriatly

My 2 cents

LOP
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 03:57 AM
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Bad chain alignment causes heat in the chain. (also a tight chain)

When out of alignment the chain bows sideways and this means one side of the links is tighter than the other putting stress on the links and rollers.

I found this out when I tried to do the string alignment method. After a quick 5 min ride around the block the chain was noisy but also hot to touch - something was wrong... re-aligned it with my Profi Laser CAT tool and found it was 3-4mm out. Did another lap of the block and the chain was cool = much better much happier.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 05:15 AM
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Dude, you killed your chain by using kerosene..... Just lube it an wipe it down once in a while.... I have never had a chain fail before 25,000km... The heat was caused by excessive friction because your chain was dying... Had nothing to do with the muffler...

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 07:35 AM
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Killed my stock chain with Kerosene too..

My stock chain had about 14,000 miles on it and looked like a peanut doughnut, which I can't stand, so I gave it a good brush down with Kerosene. Shortly after that, it started kinking all over, and no matter what I did (WD40 even) kinks were permanent. New RK chain and Supersprox now, looking gorgeous. I've learned two things from that. (1) Kerosene BAD. (2) Any chain lube that advertises "won't fling off" will make your chain look like a peanut doughnut. I now use Motorex synthetic "off road" lube, and just wipe my rear rim a little more than usual.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 07:48 AM
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Do I trade the bike in on a Tenere?
It's been a great bike so far! I still have chains on most of the other bikes though. Lol
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 08:07 AM
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Instinct says your chain was too tight. Fastest way to wreck a chain. Nonsense regarding the muffler- we'd all be having early chain failure.

Co-incidentally, I measured my chain temperature yesterday after a spirited run on a hot day. I used a laser type thermometer and the chain measured 108F, while the tires were 140F. I then lubed using Dupont chain wax and, man does that stuff ever run around and find it's way into the gap between the plates fast when the chain is warm! I always try to lube when chain is warm and have 55K kilometers plus on the stocker. I discovered a couple of bad o-rings a few years ago, but chain is still good with no kinking or tight spots. Must be good lubricating practise keeping it going.

Now watch the bugger break on me after saying all that.

Can't comment on kerosene eating x-rings, lots of inmates on this forum use wd-40 to clean chain, and don't get FE even talking (preaching?) about it!

Now I'm going for a hoolie run, it's too nice a morning to sit in front of a monitor!
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 08:26 AM Thread Starter
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Not to get into a pissing match but, kerosene is safe for use on nitrile, which is what chain o and x rings are made of these days. Number one, I wipe it down with some kerosene on a rag, I am not removing the chain and soaking it for two or three days. Number two, with the litigious society we have today, and manufacturers being the target of many class action suits, do you honestly think that Kawasaki Heavy Industries would include recommending the use of kerosene to clean the chain, right in the Versys owners' manual? Check out the bottom right of the photo.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Smiley View Post
Instinct says your chain was too tight. Fastest way to wreck a chain. Nonsense regarding the muffler- we'd all be having early chain failure.

Co-incidentally, I measured my chain temperature yesterday after a spirited run on a hot day. I used a laser type thermometer and the chain measured 108F, while the tires were 140F. I then lubed using Dupont chain wax and, man does that stuff ever run around and find it's way into the gap between the plates fast when the chain is warm! I always try to lube when chain is warm and have 55K kilometers plus on the stocker. I discovered a couple of bad o-rings a few years ago, but chain is still good with no kinking or tight spots. Must be good lubricating practise keeping it going.

Now watch the bugger break on me after saying all that.

Can't comment on kerosene eating x-rings, lots of inmates on this forum use wd-40 to clean chain, and don't get FE even talking (preaching?) about it!

Now I'm going for a hoolie run, it's too nice a morning to sit in front of a monitor!
There's an article about various chain cleaner solvents floating the interwebbie somewhere. I'll see if I can find it again. They actually tested the various ones on the chain rings. Kerosene was the least damaging. WD40 was worse, but neither is going to "eat" the orings, before their inner lubrication dries up and the chain is shot anyway.

I bought an overpriced bottle of chain degreaser at the store. I can't read without reading glasses so it wasn't until I got home that I could see what was in it. Main ingredient: Kerosene.

Oh, here's that test:

Part 1

http://advrider.com/index.php?thread...esults.345397/


Part 2

http://advrider.com/index.php?thread...esults.350310/

Last edited by saddlebag; 07-26-2015 at 08:39 AM.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by silviefox View Post
...eats rubber (so does wd40 but not as fast)....
WRONG, silvie....

Quote:
Originally Posted by saddlebag View Post
...WD40 was worse, but neither is going to "eat" the orings, before their inner lubrication dries up and the chain is shot anyway....
Read this from CYCLE WORLD's August 2015 issue....



I have used NOTHING but WD40 on the chains of my '08, '09 and '15 Vs. The '08 ORIGINAL chain lasted OVER 52,000 MILES, before it was changed, and that's ALL the '15 will get.

Bill Watson did a tech. article on using ONLY WD40 on chains, which is where I got started. Here's his site:

http://www.watt-man.com/uploads/WD40experiment.pdf

well worth reading, to rid your mind of some fallacies....


Ed
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by saddlebag View Post
Bought an overpriced bottle of chain degreaser at the store. I can't read without reading glasses so it wasn't until I got home that I could see what was in it. Main ingredient: Kerosene.

Oh, here's that test:

Part 1

http://advrider.com/index.php?thread...esults.345397/


Part 2

http://advrider.com/index.php?thread...esults.350310/

ADVrider, lol, they sponsor WD40.
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-27-2015, 12:03 AM
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I ruined a chain once by not allowing enough slack. Only took 50 miles to do it in. Clean chain occasionally with brush and wd-40. Lubricate every second fill up with Dupont Chain saver. Never had an issue with it.
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-27-2015, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fasteddiecopeman View Post
WRONG, silvie....




:
WD40 displaces water and can cause the rubber to dry out was my understanding... But it takes prolong exposure.,.

Don't get me wrong I have and always will use wd40 on my chain to clean it. But I also wipe down after and every other time I use some bar oil on it( have a few gallons laying around )

yes im a guy.
Silvie=latin for. Of the forest /woods. Fox= Vulpine (also my middle name)

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Last edited by silviefox; 07-27-2015 at 12:10 AM.
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-27-2015, 12:52 AM
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Done 52k Km with 2 set of DID chain and just normal cleaning and water washing- No kerosene. Keep alignment and slag just nice and all good so far.

Thailand made are not that bad these days and its a tight economy that manufacture fight over, so don,t think any manufacture will take the risk to lose market confidence. DID has always been a quality producer-IMHO.
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-27-2015, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you to all who have contributed. Always good to get different opinions/perspectives.
New chain is on order. Will try running this one at the very loose end of spec, if not a little more. Will see how it works out. This is the first chain that has died a premature death in my thirty years of riding, (have gone through chains before but at the usual life expectancy) so I will go with the "too tight" theory because it is the only explanation at this point.

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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-28-2015, 04:22 PM
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I'm w/ those who cautioned AGAINST having the chain too tight. That WILL ruin it in short order!

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