Bike Won't Turn Over - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-10-2015, 06:15 PM Thread Starter
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Bike Won't Turn Over

Okay, came home from work last night and V started just as expected. This afternoon, bike won't even crank. So, I immediately go with checking the starter. As I hit the start button and hear the relay click, but does not crank. Just checking the turning over of the engine I take my socket and turn over the timing gear and it has no issue with turning, it was in neutral. Any thoughts on this? Opened the starter and checked out the brushes and they still look pretty good. Battery has been charged for testing. Lights, horn, display are all functioning except for the FI indicator because that assembly has been removed. Any thoughts?

Interestingly I don't hear the relay clinking when hitting the start button when the battery is charged.

Cheers!


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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-10-2015, 06:49 PM
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Kill switch in the run position?
Kickstand switch working properly?
Good battery connections?
Charged battery?

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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-10-2015, 07:05 PM
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Sand off the oxidation on top of your battery posts.
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-10-2015, 08:05 PM
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if you can jump the starter from the battery and that will tell you if the starter is to blame or something befor it (switch wire power so on)

yes im a guy.
Silvie=latin for. Of the forest /woods. Fox= Vulpine (also my middle name)

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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-10-2015, 09:49 PM
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Area of 30 Amp mainfuse and area it slides into green and furry?

Hint: it aint the ones accessed under the seat.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-10-2015, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angst View Post
Okay, came home from work last night and V started just as expected. This afternoon, bike won't even crank. So, I immediately go with checking the starter. As I hit the start button and hear the relay click, but does not crank. Just checking the turning over of the engine I take my socket and turn over the timing gear and it has no issue with turning, it was in neutral. Any thoughts on this? Opened the starter and checked out the brushes and they still look pretty good. Battery has been charged for testing. Lights, horn, display are all functioning except for the FI indicator because that assembly has been removed. Any thoughts?

Interestingly I don't hear the relay clinking when hitting the start button when the battery is charged.
posts before address the issue, KILL switch? In neutral, try pulling in the clutch, and raising the kickstand, while pressing start.
There are two start relays listed, in actual fact I call the one under the gas tank the start relay, the start solenoid is pulled in by the start relay. The solenoid is right beside your main fuse, a rubber cover pulls off exposing the terminals, this is what carries the high start current.
I am amazed at the lengths some people go to solve , what sometimes is a simple problem.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-10-2015, 10:29 PM
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Have you tried jumping the stater solenoid with a screwdriver?

2008 Versys 650

Been riding 8 or 9 years, and have owned 8 or 9 bikes; its an addiction I can't quit...
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-11-2015, 11:10 AM
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My thoughts are - BATTERY. Can you do a 'load-test' on your battery?

Ed
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-11-2015, 05:05 PM
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Have you tried jumping the stater solenoid with a screwdriver?
yes, I posted where the solenoid is and the terminals, and that is what I would do, but didn't mention it. I personally could test all this with a meter. First I checked the manual appendix 17-46, lots of good info but no where in the manual does it say what the resistance should be of the starter.First connect a meter across the solenoid, you should get your battery voltage,if you don't , switch to ohms and measure from ground to the starter terminal, should be very low resistance , less than 1 ohm. If it isn't 1 ohm or less you have a starter problem with the winding, you need to look up starter testing, basically if you have a open armature, you need a new starter. Next connect meter from ground ( use your battery negative or frame ground located by the ECU) to the starter terminal, attempt to start and see if you are getting 12 volts, if you are , you may have a bad engine ground.If you don't get 12 volts, last test is to connect from ground and place your other meter probe in the plug for the solenoid wire yellow with red tracer, you may need to stick a straight pin or finishing nail or something else that is small into the back of the plug. If in doubt go to post http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...&postcount=387 ---last picture shows the plug pulled, you need this left attached, -----try starting again, if you don't get 12 volts, and you hear clicking, your start relay is done!

Taking a screw driver and shorting out the solenoid posts is a fast way, although you may damage the threads or nuts and wish you hadn't tried that quick method, later when the new parts arrive.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-11-2015, 08:17 PM
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Sand off the oxidation on top of your battery posts.
+1
You can see VDC across dirty contacts, buy amps will not cross dirty contacts
If it does not help , then at the least you have one less thing to worry about
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-11-2015, 08:28 PM
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I bet the battery is DOA. It may hold enough juice to click the relay and light up things BUT not have the amps to crank the bike. I'd pull it and haul it the a auto part place and see if they will load test it for you. If it good you lost nothing if it bad you at the right place too get a new one.

My KLR started doing this and the battery acted like you say your is. I forget the exact numbers but if it putting out 12 volts it no good it has to be something like 13.4 volts to work right.

Or was that look THEN leap?
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-11-2015, 11:40 PM
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Sand off the oxidation on top of your battery posts.
+1
You can see VDC across dirty contacts, buy amps will not cross dirty contacts
If it does not help , then at the least you have one less thing to worry about
I am not sure if you are referring to my post, if you are, you have missed several things. First, measuring resistance of starter. I would like to see how you could have 12 volts between the solenoid load side and ground, without the starter turning over. Measuring from the start solenoid yellow with red tracer to ground and pressing start if you get 12 volts, proves the start relay works, do you hear clicking of the solenoid? I have seen solenoid coils fail, that is you have 12 volts at the solenoid but nothing happens, ain't the battery, it is the solenoid. This is the point where shorting out the solenoid proves your battery is OK.

I am going to suggest a really easy way to prove your starter is OK and your battery is OK, if you have booster cables. Most cables have about 2 feet of free cable at each end. First disconnect your positive battery terminal at the battery.If you have a meter available connect it to the battery and follow my instructions:
Next, slide the rubber boot connection back at your starter. Pay attention ! Use a piece of hard cardboard , piece of wood , anything you can clip one end of the cables to, just like you were going to connect to a car. Clip them on to the cardboard keeping them separate. Next connect the black to your starter post, connect the red to your positive battery. Make sure your bike is in neutral, next, short out the cables connected to the cardboard. Two possible outcomes; your starter begins to turn but battery voltage drops to under 8 volts in less than 5 seconds----------new battery required OR starter spins like crazy and battery remains at about 11 volts after 30 seconds, you have a solenoid or starter relay problem.

Last edited by onewizard; 07-11-2015 at 11:45 PM.
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 02:00 AM
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Battery power and all operating systems may appear to be fine, until a high current is attempted to be drawn through starter. Any oxidation buildup on top of battery posts is hard to see, but adds much resistance to bolted down terminals... Sanding it down clean ensures you truly do have a good connection to battery, with the least possible resistance to discharge and charge, with reduced heat production, etc. Good clean secure ground connections are also crucial.

Clean off underneath your battery cable terminals as well while you're at it.

Last edited by invader; 07-12-2015 at 02:11 AM.
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 09:03 AM Thread Starter
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Smile Follow up

After checking all fuses, starter (brushes, armature,and conduction), battery I started to work backwards. So I did as my wonderful Versys Members suggested and tested the starter by jumping it, it worked.

All fuses are good, even main fuse. Tested battery again and I got a fault indication on my Black and Decker Smart Charger. So now that I had my wife's car and jumper cables and hooked them up to the V. Magically everything worked. So I'm not blaming my charger so much as I am blaming the dang battery for not failing correctly.

However, adding injury to insult was that the dam wiring to the fuel pump finally broke at the epoxy potting on the fuel pump installing the tank . So not only was it the cheapest battery (Allied Pacific) "filled by you battery" that needed to be replaced but also a new $300 fuel pump.

Happy Birthday to me!

Thank you all for the input. I really do appreciate all of the time and suggestions you were able to provide.

Cheers!


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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 10:08 AM
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Battery power and all operating systems may appear to be fine, until a high current is attempted to be drawn through starter. Any oxidation buildup on top of battery posts is hard to see, but adds much resistance to bolted down terminals... Sanding it down clean ensures you truly do have a good connection to battery, with the least possible resistance to discharge and charge, with reduced heat production, etc. Good clean secure ground connections are also crucial.

Clean off underneath your battery cable terminals as well while you're at it.
Print this out and tape it to your tool box. This applies to any battery operated device.

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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 10:09 AM
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Gads, that's too bad.

did you get a new AGM/glass mat battery and not a stock wet cell?
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 05:44 PM
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I am not sure if you are referring to my post
No i was not,, I always start from the source-- aka the battery.
then i will work my way to the problem folowing the electrical path
i guess i must do things in reverse of your methids
My intent was to give my opinion to Angst and try to be helpfull
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-12-2015, 06:01 PM
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I am not sure if you are referring to my post
No i was not,, I always start from the source-- aka the battery.
then i will work my way to the problem folowing the electrical path
i guess i must do things in reverse of your methids
My intent was to give my opinion to Angst and try to be helpfull
Your way is also my way, it was indicated that the lights worked, I didn't clue into that phrase ( that is why I bypassed the battery as being toast), lights and headlight are two different things.

One thing, the people on this forum make this probably one of the best I know of. Most important is everyone usually tries to be helpful. I make mistakes all the time, and I learn from them, as I am constantly learning on this site--------and when I can I like to give back.

Like in Australia " NO WORRIES"

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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 12:22 PM
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Another thing to keep in mind - the current required to turn the lights ON, is LESS than that required to turn the starter, so the FIRST does NOT guarantee the SECOND.

Ed
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 12:30 PM
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since you heard a click I think battery.

if there was no click there are a bunch of safety switches to try bypassing with a paperclip no at a time.
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