are these exhaust gas and compression #s normal? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-15-2015, 12:30 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: California
Posts: 614
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
are these exhaust gas and compression #s normal?

I've attached a dyno plot with exhaust gas numbers for my totally stock 2011 Versys with 54k miles. The CO numbers show it running lean at low RPMs and rich from 4k to 9k. Are those numbers normal for these bikes?

Leakdown is low, compression is high--240 & 235psi, which the tuner thought was too high. They suspected carbon buildup, but checked with a bore scope and said it was clean.

Does the compression numbers seem unusual? The tuner said because of it I should run premium fuel. It doesn't seem to ping without it or run better with though.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg versys-dyno.jpg (20.8 KB, 85 views)
davidg is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-15-2015, 12:35 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: California
Posts: 614
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Dyno plot seems to have shrunk in the upload. If the numbers are hard to read, I'll repeat 'em here.

RPM CO [no units given, but I guess it's PPM]
2k 2.9
3k 2.5
4k 8.5
5k 8.1
6k 6.9
7k 6.3
8k 6.8
9k 6.8
10k 4.9
davidg is offline  
post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-15-2015, 10:52 PM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,844
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
CO readings are actually in %... From what I gather, you're ideally looking to have about 5.0% for maximum power. More than about 5.0% would be the result of excess fuel.

http://www.factorypro.com/dyno/4gasEGAvso2sensor.html

Last edited by invader; 03-15-2015 at 11:44 PM.
invader is offline  
 
post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-15-2015, 11:05 PM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,844
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Your compression is good and far from excessive:

Cylinder Compression
Usable Range: 1 226 ∼ 1 844 kPa (12.5 ∼ 18.8 kgf/cm, 178 ∼ 267 psi) at 425 r/min (rpm).
invader is offline  
post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-15-2015, 11:45 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: California
Posts: 614
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
CO readings are actually in %... From what I gather, you're ideally looking to have about 5.0% for maximum power. More than about 5.0% would be excess fuel.

http://www.factorypro.com/dyno/4gasEGAvso2sensor.html
Thanks! Yeah the tuners were saying they like them around 4.x, which is were it is at the top of the RPM range. I know it's common for bikes to be lean at low RPMs for emissions, and I know ours aren't the most efficient bikes (compared for example to Honda or BMW parallel twins), so I wasn't sure if the running to rich might be normal.

My fuel economy was down. I had tried many things and I took it to the tuner, and they tried more.

Before taking it there I had installed rebuilt, flow matched injectors, and it didn't help. The tuner told me because idle was fine it wasn't a sensor, and that it was either injectors or ECU. The ECU seemed possible but unlikely--more likely for an ECU issue to cause a more serious problem. But I tried: I swapped in a different ECU and it also made no difference.

I have another pair of injectors with slightly lower flow which I may try, since it's rich, but I don't think that's the real problem and I'm reluctant to spend the time there.

I didn't balance the TBs after the injector swap. I expect that would help a little, but don't think it's the real issue.

Valve clearance, plugs, air filter and fuel pump are good.

Any suggestions for what to look at next?

Could a stretched timing chain do this?

I think a clogged cat could. The symptoms seem different from when it's happened to my car. For one thing I don't notice a booming sound under power. Any suggestions for how to check? Can I see into the cat if I remove the muffler? I could just swap in a cheap muffler and run it for a tank. But I'm hoping there's an easier way to tell.
davidg is offline  
post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-16-2015, 12:48 AM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,844
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
The progressively richer A/F ratio, up from a lean low end is 'normal', yes. It is the way that the ECU is calibrated, which is quite typical.... That's why some use a DynoJet PC to make fuel adjustments, removing more fuel at higher rpm. Fuel is added only at low rpm where it's needed.

Reduced fuel mileage could be caused by higher ethanol content in gasoline, riding at higher speeds and higher rpm... What type of oil are you using? Air filter is not over-oiled?

From my experience, a stretched timing chain would not affect fuel efficiency enough to notice. If cat was clogged, you'd have substantial power loss, and you would feel reduced blowing out of muffler.

Cat is hard to inspect: http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ad.php?t=12699

Last edited by invader; 03-16-2015 at 01:05 AM.
invader is offline  
post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-31-2015, 01:51 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: California
Posts: 614
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Glad to know I don't need to investigate the cat & timing chain, thanks! Definitely not air filter.

I swapped in the lower flow injectors last Sunday and got a slight improvement in the last tank: 41MPG (vs 39-40). I wonder if I could get a little more from a TB sync. I guess I can try.

The difference between the injector pairs wasn't much 84ml vs 85ml (per some unit time). Each pair included one injector that the rebuilder said leaked prior to the rebuild. One set were the originals, one was an ebay set I bought.

I wonder why I had all these injector issues, and if the injectors were good after the rebuild.

I could also try the two injectors that didn't leak prior to rebuild (one from each set).

I got one small backfire upon restart with the higher flow pair, which says possible leak. Backfires were worse when I had a leaking one before. I can take that pair to the local tuner to see if they're OK.

A common factor is the fuel pump, and I wonder if the filter and or screen are damaged. While the pump tested perfect for flow and volume, if it no longer filters I guess that could cause problems.

Does the pump have both screen and filter? Can the screen can be inspected without removing the pump? My inspection mirror wouldn't fit, but I could try another tool. Can the filter be inspected for damage at all?

Thoughts?

Last edited by davidg; 03-31-2015 at 01:54 AM.
davidg is offline  
post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-31-2015, 08:57 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Youngstown, OH
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Everything looks perfectly normal. Bikes run leaner today at lower revs because of emissions regs and richer at higher revs to give a margin of engine safety. You could tune it to 14.7 stoichiometric at all revs but others on the forum say Power Commanders for a Versys are a waste of money.
TR Versys is offline  
post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-31-2015, 07:27 PM
Member
 
Baron650's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 943
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
What kind of mileage were you getting before?
I mean how much are you chasing here?
Have you eliminated drive train and rolling resistance issues- Chain, bearings, brake drag?
Baron650 is offline  
post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-31-2015, 11:14 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: California
Posts: 614
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron650 View Post
What kind of mileage were you getting before?
I mean how much are you chasing here?
Have you eliminated drive train and rolling resistance issues- Chain, bearings, brake drag?
Those last don't seem to be issues.

Used to get 48MPG or better (a bit less on Winter gas). If I could get 45MPG or better all should be well. Above 42MPG and I could work with it (taking the Versys on my shorter commute days).

At this point I hope for measurable gains from a TB sync.

I realized today's commute was faster than usual, with light Spring Break commute traffic. There might be some improvement next week.

FWIW the carbureted FZ1 I'd been commuting on lately gets 44-49MPG on the same commute. And put down well more than twice the power on a different dyno from above.

Before the last mileage drop I was sharing commute duties between the two of them. If I get some improvement I'd like to go back to that. Else I think it's time for a new bike.

One of the reasons I had leak down, etc. done is I was considering a 2015 Versys, and I wanted to know if my current one's engine was worn out this early. Doesn't seem to be. If it were, I wouldn't have considered a new Versys any longer.

From reading here, while some do better than I used to, I think some never get better mileage than I do now. It may not be terrible for this bike, but it isn't enough for me.

Last edited by davidg; 03-31-2015 at 11:17 PM.
davidg is offline  
post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-31-2015, 11:20 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: California
Posts: 614
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrocks View Post
if any doubt, it's easy to pull the pump for inspection.
Thanks. I might do that.
davidg is offline  
post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-01-2015, 05:56 PM
Member
 
Baron650's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 943
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Well, a 20% drop is pretty significant. And you seem pretty tuned into the bike so I suppose the other variables have already been eliminated. So you didn't just put on a set of TKC80's and put on the XXL Happy Trails 3-piece Box set, right?
hopefully the TB sync will yield some results.
I didn't know that an FZ1 got that kind of mileage- an 08,09 with the retro-red scheme is one of my favorite bikes to look at. I could have had one for a screamin' deal a few years ago, but I always figured the Versys was way more practical. I've been denying myself based on a fallacy?
In my area there are a lot of Versys for sale and a high mileage bike would have to be priced pretty aggressively to sell. Like you, I have over 50k on mine, and the math is grim:
2015 Vs650LT ($8700)
- 2009 [email protected] ($3000)
Out-of-pocket+ $5700

In your case that's 1630 FREE gallons of gas, or 65,000 miles at your current paltry 40mpg.
Thanks for posting up the numbers from looking into this, David. As a fellow high mileager I love that the motor is so healthy with 50k plus on it. I think I'll attach it to my Craig's list ad!

PS- I'd love to see the numbers at 120k!
Baron650 is offline  
post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-02-2015, 12:37 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: California
Posts: 614
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron650 View Post
I didn't know that an FZ1 got that kind of mileage- an 08,09 with the retro-red scheme is one of my favorite bikes to look at.
The white with red? Those look good. Mine is the previous generation though, and a more practical bike.
davidg is offline  
post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-02-2015, 01:40 PM
Super Moderator
 
fasteddiecopeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kelowna, BC - summer; Florence, AZ - winter
Posts: 17,837
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron650 View Post
...As a fellow high mileager I love that the motor is so healthy with 50k plus on it. I think I'll attach it to my Craig's list ad!

PS- I'd love to see the numbers at 120k!
My '08 w/ 57,395 miles on it gave me 53 mpgUS on my last few fills in AZ.


Ed
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


'08 V AZ, '15 V650LT BC
Ride to D2D 2013, June '13

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Ride to D2D 2015, June '15

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Ride to D2D 2016, June '16

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fasteddiecopeman is offline  
post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-14-2015, 01:07 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: California
Posts: 614
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidg View Post
I realized today's commute was faster than usual, with light Spring Break commute traffic. There might be some improvement next week.
Looks like it took until now for the various local Spring Breaks to be over. Commute slowed down today, fuel economy went up a bit. It looks like the fuel economy will do for now.

I still might want a 2015 Versys. Or other new-to-me bike...

Last edited by davidg; 04-14-2015 at 01:30 AM.
davidg is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Versys Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome