FI light on and running poorly at low rpm - Kawasaki Versys Forum
 
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-25-2015, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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FI light on and running poorly at low rpm

'10 650V. Symptoms started back in Oct. Hard starting and FI light comes and goes. Mostly it's out and only comes on at low rpm/idle. Idle rough and cuts off frequently when idling. Above 4000 rpm it's fine. Below 3500 is problem zone. Anytime I slow down for a stop sign or signal I have to give it some throttle to keep it running.

Initially blamed it on the (~5 yr old original equip) battery, but now it's clearly more to it than that.. Got a new battery today and it starts easier but the rest of the symptoms seem worse. I've ridden it very little since mid Nov but it wasn't too bad then. Maybe that gas has gone bad or water in system settled to the bottom. I ran most of the gas out of it today, down to one bar and put a few oz's of fuel dryer and injector cleaner in when I got home. Then it REALLY ran like crap - might have diluted it too much. Will get some fresh gas tomorrow.

Any other ideas suggestions? Any similar experience?

Last edited by ddlewis; 01-26-2015 at 11:24 AM.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-26-2015, 10:40 AM
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I think you're on the right track- get fuel sorted first. Use the mechanic-in-a-can formulas you mentioned, take it for a ride long enough to get it thoroughly warm, some high rpm, and run a lot of fresh gas through, then let us know if that cured it.

Good luck.
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-26-2015, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Smiley, will post up when I get it figured out.

and one other thing crossed my mind.. Around Christmas I installed a relay/fuse block and heated grips. I'm pretty confident in the electrical work but after googling my symptoms I read something about vacuum,? etc. connections under the tank.. I raised the tank up a little to fish my grip power under from the fuse block to the switch/grips. Starting to wonder if I disconnected or pinched something down there. Maybe that's why it seems even worse now. Kind of doubt it.. still thinking bad gas but it's one more thing to look at.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-26-2015, 02:08 PM
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Was that the first ride after the electrical install? You would have noticed right away if the vacuum line was disconnected and I think the FI light would have been lit up. If a more recent event, then look at fuel first.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-06-2015, 01:48 PM Thread Starter
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update

Still thinking bad fuel, I put some HEET brand fuel dryer in and ran it down to 1 bar. Filled up and added some Seafoam. Ran it some more. Fresh gas now but problem persists.

Also disconnected the new accessory fuse box I had installed. the relay trigger was driven from one of the hot wires leaving the factory fuse block. Don't think it was related, just wanted one less factor in this puzzle.

I had left one of the evap hoses disconnected.. fixed that. Explains the slight fuel smell which I was blaming on the DR.

narrowed down description of symptoms..
starts easy, but FI light on and stays on at idle, idle fairly smooth ~1200
giving it gas slowly, FI goes off around 2000 rpm
at PRECISELY 3500 rpm the bikes starts coughing/sputtering. 3500 every time. If I back off the throttle quickly sometimes it will even cut off. If I continue to roll on, once above 3600, business as usual. If you jump on the throttle from dead stop and run it on up to 5000 you'd barely even notice. Just can't go slowly though 3500 range, it'll start jerking.

I'm starting to wonder if it's an ignition issue. why would a fueling problem only really act up at a certain rpm. and I mean on the button, 3500. am I having an ECU problem?

Earlier I had thought about pulling the tank, dumping the (now fresh) gas and pulling out the pump for inspection. I'm starting to doubt that now.

Any other ideas? lets hear 'em. Thanks. Dan

Last edited by ddlewis; 02-06-2015 at 02:26 PM.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-06-2015, 05:52 PM
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Now I'm convinced: electrical or vacuum problem. No way that is fuel with the consistent 3500 rpm symptom. Is there a V owner near you that you could swap electrical components with? Do them one at a time if possible.

I had an intermittent electric problem with my Connie that had me stumped (and left me stranded too). Swapped out the ignitor and the "J" box, one at a time and instantly found that it was a faulty ignitor. I'm not suggesting that is the problem, just suggesting a troubleshooting method that you could try.

Good luck and keep us informed.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-06-2015, 06:02 PM
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You need to start by reading your FI trouble code.

Under the seat, along the right sub-frame rail is an orange/black wire with a bullet connector. This is the self-diagnosis terminal. In order to read out the CURRENT Service Codes (DIAGNOSTIC MODE 1), ground that wire with the KEY ON. The FI light will begin to flash codes. There will be a 5 second delay and then the codes begin. The first flash is always a LONG (1 sec) followed by either LONG or SHORT (0.5 sec) flashes. LONG flashes indicate TENS and short flashes ONES. One LONG followed by two SHORT = 12. Two LONG, one SHORT = 21. Three LONG, two short = 32, etc. There is an interval of 1.5 seconds between TENS and ONES. There is a 3 second interval between codes.

For multiple codes, the codes will readout from lowest numerical value to highest. A low battery will cause the light to flash slowly or not at all.

To recover codes set in memory (Diagnostic Mode 2); KEY ON, touch the self-diagnosis terminal rapidly to ground more than 5 times within 2 seconds. The lead must remain grounded (after 5 groundings) for the remainder of the diagnostic session. The codes will readout exactly as in Mode 1.

CODE Malfunction

11_______ Main throttle sensor
12_______ Inlet air pressure sensor
13_______ Inlet air temperature sensor
14_______ Water temperature sensor
21_______ Crankshaft sensor
24 & 25___Speed sensor (24 then 25, repeatedly)
31_______Vehicle-down sensor
32_______Subthrottle sensor
33_______Oxygen sensor inactive (Europe)
51_______Ignition Coil #1
52_______Ignition Coil #2
56_______Radiator Fan Relay
62_______Subthrottle valve actuator (sensor in range but not responding)
64_______Air switching valve
67_______Oxygen sensor heater (Europe)
94_______Oxygen sensor out-of-range

To clear codes from the ECU, enter MODE 2, pull the clutch in for more than 5 seconds.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-06-2015, 06:22 PM
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Definitely go with Invader's advice. Should help you narrow it down. I was chasing down a problem with reversed vacuum lines (don't ask) for wayyyy too long before I checked the code. It was pretty easy from there. I believe I used the 2nd diagnostic mode since that reads from memory and not in realtime as my FI wasn't on at idle. Don't get discouraged if it doesn't happen the first time either- it took me a couple of tries to get the timing right to make the codes start.


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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-06-2015, 06:56 PM
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Yup, the FI trouble code is the way to go. Sorry to sidetrack the issue, I tend to think the old school way in mechanics.
But it's still electrics, not fuel. And good luck!
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-08-2015, 10:05 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks a lot guys. I really appreciate the help

Read the code in mode 2. It was a 12 and nothing else. No current code to read. Cleaned the contacts and checked the vacuum line on that air inlet pressure sensor.

Basically the same on today's short ride. Rideable but only just. Very surgy around 3500 and wants to cut off at idle. My reading on this is making me wonder about tps. I'm thinking tweaking that next.
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-08-2015, 11:57 PM
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I was in fact expecting code 12 in your case... Are your IAP sensor hose and evap hoses all as they should be? Is your IAP hose T'd in between both TB's? Is the IAP sensor plugged in?
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-09-2015, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
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I was in fact expecting code 12 in your case... Are your IAP sensor hose and evap hoses all as they should be? Is your IAP hose T'd in between both TB's? Is the IAP sensor plugged in?
The IAP vacuum line appeared to run straight from the sensor to one port on the throttle body/manifold. don't remember any T's. I'm at work so this is from memory - I'll take another peek when I get home. It was well connected at both ends and no damage/cripm/blockage to that rubber hose. the sensor was plugged in. I pulled it apart zapped it with cleaner and snapped it back together.

The service manual shows a way to test that sensor. My multi meter is at my neighbors but I'll check that tonight too.

Evap hoses. the first time I took the tank off the hoses did not get reconnected to the two nipples, then I noticed/connected them in reverse () then when gas started dripping I looked up the diagram and corrected that. So now they are right. could I have filled up my cannister and be suffering from that?
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-09-2015, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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Surging related to clutch/ignition safety? I don't understand how this could possibly be, but surging symptoms sound similar.

Kohburn had just installed a 12v socket. I had just installed an aux fuse block/grip heaters. It would be real easy to jump that switch connector and try it. feel like this is really grabbing at straws.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...066#post727066
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 07:36 AM
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What mileage are you at? Have you replaced spark plugs, checked valve clearances, and vacuum synched your TB's?
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ddlewis View Post
could I have filled up my cannister and be suffering from that?
I was told by Kawi (i.e. some customer service guy at their call center) that if the canister got wet with fuel that it would dry out and would be fine, but am not totally convinced...I'd want to hear it from a mechanic I trust.

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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 12:50 PM
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...could I have filled up my cannister and be suffering from that?
IF it's not required by law, why not remove it?


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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 02:56 PM Thread Starter
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Bike still @ pretty low miles. 9k. I doubt any of those things have been done (synch, plugs, valve check etc..) Have a mercury synch gauge and can change plugs easy enough. probably hold off on the valve check till it's time since it's probably a pita.

Will try to clean that IAP sensor when I get back out there. Have a can of auto MAF sensor cleaner on the shelf which is probably about the same thing. Not sure if I can get at the actual sensor or if it's sealed off. I haven't looked further into than the electrical connector at top and the hose out the bottom.

FastEddy, would love to take that whole ugly evap system out of there and maybe I will after this is sorted.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-11-2015, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
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Well.. I did zap that sensor with MAF cleaner through the hose nipple at the bottom and l checked and rechecked all the electrical and vacuum/plumbing connections. blew air through the evap canister and lines and let sit over night hoping to dry completely. hooked it all up (correctly) this morning and...

It runs fine. No codes, no surging anywhere in rpms, no trying to cut off, idles perfectly ~1k.

So I'm not sure exactly what it was. Pretty sure the flat battery caused the initial symptoms but the main/recent part was unrelated and self inflicted. IAP code/bad running probably due to evap hoses not connected fully/properly. I have my theories.

Appreciate all the suggestions. I like the fact that we can read our own codes from the dash.. that's handy.

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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-11-2015, 11:51 AM
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...FastEddy, would love to take that whole ugly evap system out of there and maybe I will after this is sorted.
Try SEARCH for a pretty good thread. Removed mine shortly after I got the '09.

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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-11-2015, 05:52 PM
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Cool... Now you can adjust your normal warmed up idle speed to 1,300 rpm.
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