Optimized Curve Braking - Kawasaki Versys Forum
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-11-2015, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
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Optimized Curve Braking

Well this sounds interesting until you get to the being mandated in Europe part..and WE all know how much WE like mandates in here...especially the Gubberment kind...Gotta wonder how this will affect trail braking in corners...

http://www.continental-corporation.c...remsen_en.html

mandated for ALL motorcycles?? I do not see how this will help motocross or any other off roader..but that's those crazy Europeans...




Raise your hand if you use trail braking on a regular basis..
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-11-2015, 08:01 PM
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Well this sounds interesting until you get to the being mandated in Europe part..and WE all know how much WE like mandates in here...especially the Gubberment kind...Gotta wonder how this will affect trail braking in corners...

http://www.continental-corporation.c...remsen_en.html

mandated for ALL motorcycles?? I do not see how this will help motocross or any other off roader..but that's those crazy Europeans...




Raise your hand if you use trail braking on a regular basis..
I guess I'm confused. If I read the article correctly, the current generation of ABS does not take into account lean angles and brakes must be applied "carefully" to avoid an "abrupt fall." I've owned and ridden several ABS bikes that I'm sure I trail braked with at some point. It has never been a problem. This new system supposedly makes it that much better by using lean angle in the braking algorithm. Not sure why that would be seen as a bad thing?
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-11-2015, 11:14 PM
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The number one aid in cornering stability is acceleration, and the number 2 aid is deceleration (braking.) But now in a sticky physics situation with gravity and forces up/down/forward/aft, you now have abs brakes throwing in their one-size-fits-all heuristic in CORNERING(!!) of all situations.

Abs was designed for vertical wheels (cars) and it does an undeniably good job with cars. With mc's however, I have never had a good feel of how hard I should pull the brake or know how it will be compensated. Abs still locks up, but the hard part is how and when it starts to compensate (you NEVER know!) And now Europe (?) has come up with another control for mc abs, other than "it's only benefit is in the rain": which is as slippery edged definition as I've heard. They are jumping MILES in advancement over what they have not yet mastered in the basics.

Turning front wheels inversely in corners is elementary motorcycling. If it eliminates that, then your brakes are on. It's like pulling your parking brakes in a corner, but based on the forces, the abs will apply your brakes for you. Now if you apply them too, you could stop and fall over (or at least be unstable in the apex of your corner.) Why not just mandate 3 wheel (2 in front) configurations for all motorcycles? (I like the leaning front wheels 3 wheeler)

WHAT this does do is address abs liability of a small patch of tire coefficient of friction leaning over in corners (and their claim to fame, "in the rain" no less.) Now less skilled (or unskilled) motorcyclists can lean over like the big boys and have their tires pointed more forward at the expense of going slower (brakes are the NUMBER 2(!) means of stability in cornering.) NOW in addition to not knowing how or when your abs are going to lock up in corners, you will now not know how far to lean your bike over: stop leaning when the bike stops and you fall over in the apex of the corner - ??

Drive safe abs motorcyclists!
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-12-2015, 07:42 AM
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The antilock part of ABS only activates when a slip is noticed. Will not affect normal braking. Now if they incorporate linked brakes you will end up with some rear brake applied when you try to change the trail of the bike by applying the front brakes to compress the front suspension. You will now be compressing both the front and rear suspension so you will slow down, but not change the trail of the bike.

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-12-2015, 08:21 AM
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Turning front wheels inversely in corners is elementary motorcycling. If it eliminates that, then your brakes are on. It's like pulling your parking brakes in a corner, but based on the forces, the abs will apply your brakes for you. Now if you apply them too, you could stop and fall over
I think you are reading this into the article. I saw nothing there that indicated that brakes would be applied automatically based on lean angle. What I read simply said that the ABS (which operates on a whole bunch of motorcycles that go around corners now) will kick in even more gradually based on the lean angle of the motorcycle. To me that sounds all good.

Personally, I have never experienced ABS kick on while cornering any such equipped bike, but if this system makes it even more unlikely, that's great. I still want ABS for the time I'm in a dicey traction situation and someone does something that spooks me. I've been known to over react in such conditions. I'm glad there are electronics that don't.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-12-2015, 01:17 PM
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Raise your hand if you use trail braking on a regular basis..

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-12-2015, 02:50 PM
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I couldn't help but think "Marc Marquez" on the no rear wheel lift-off prevention-RLP..
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-12-2015, 03:16 PM
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I think you are reading this into the article. I saw nothing there that indicated that brakes would be applied automatically based on lean angle. What I read simply said that the ABS (which operates on a whole bunch of motorcycles that go around corners now) will kick in even more gradually based on the lean angle of the motorcycle. To me that sounds all good.

Personally, I have never experienced ABS kick on while cornering any such equipped bike, but if this system makes it even more unlikely, that's great. I still want ABS for the time I'm in a dicey traction situation and someone does something that spooks me. I've been known to over react in such conditions. I'm glad there are electronics that don't.
That is a personal preference: I understand. Something that slows your braking down into a slower thud collision in an emergency is better than sliding into something unaware. I respect trusting omnibus revenue producing powers that control legal requirements as well: its easy with the least resistance.

However, I have learned to trust empirical evidence and sound logic greater than expensive complexities that generate revenues. Except for cars, motorcycling is not that unsafe using a little common sense. They are just trying to limit their liabilities at a profit without ever having the burden of showing proof (like air bags recently found out to be unsafe: after how many decades??)

I would rather have cast iron discs and organic pads for safety, but cast iron discs are cheap with no profit incentive. If I can get cast steel discs, I will try to get those when possible, along with organic/ceramic pads. The only problem with oem brakes I can ascertain is the metal filled pads biting into SS hard discs abruptly Too bad "Real" safety does not correspond well with "Greedy Profits."
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