STILL Popping? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
 
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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Question STILL Popping?

O.K. guys,
I hate to beat a dead horse as pair valve conversations go... but apparently,
My current settup is a 2009 (green of course) V with a TB carbon pipe. Having issues with popping noise and approaching 18K, I figured time for the air filter upgrade and Pair valve fix.
I replaced the filter with a Piper Cross.. (Thanks Invader, I think that product idea came from you) and proceeded to remove the Pair valve system, Plugging the top of the case, removing the two rubber hoses with valve body in the middle, plugging the hole in the airbox and bridged the wiring to the Pair valve to keep the engine light from turning on. (Credit is also due here to someone... I'm not sure where I read that though)
OK, bike reassembled. To more grumbling and popping. The popping has improved, but by only near marginal amounts.
Many of you will say... "It is time for a Juice Box or a PCV" which I will not argue and had planned to purchase anyhow, but isn't this supposed to be the fix for this? Have you guys experienced different results in your fixes?
Thanks in advance.

Scotty
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 03:19 PM
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i also have popping but mine is more like a big bang. i have the Cherry Bomb muffler. check for air leaks at the muffler connection. blocking the pair valve did not help mine at all. i also installed a Techlusion TFI to richen the mixture at low rpms. also did not help. any one else have any ideas.

Last edited by invisabiker; 02-06-2010 at 03:21 PM.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 05:43 PM
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How well is the reed valve inlet on the engine cover sealed? The slight pow I had only when reopening throttle slightly from a near 2800 rpm low speed decelleration, was cured by rotating the main throttle sensor counterclockwise just a hair to raise its voltage output at proper spec...
Instead of going through the trouble of reading your TPS's voltage output like I did, just have a good look at that green reference mark in from of main (lower) throttle sensor first, and note which angle you're viewing it from to have part of the mark on TPS centered with other part of the mark on TB. Crack the torx screw loose and give it as little counterclock rotation as possible, so that's it's hard to see any shift in at at all, tighten screw then try it out. You can then rotate secondary (upper) throttle sensor also counterclockwise to reduce cold fast idle rpm. Mine was already close to maximum counterclockwise position. It's now rotated as far as it can go, and my fast idle is at ~2000 rpm.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 07:44 PM
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see my specs below. After JB i still had poping but less but now few and far between after a throttle body adjustment at the 15k service.

08 Versys (Red)
Two Brothers Slip-On V.A.L.E. Exhaust
Two Brothers Juice Box
Arrow Headers
Motowerk Lowering kit w/Flatfoot
SW-MOTECH Crashbars/Engine Guards w/Hwy Pegs
SW-MOTECH mirror wideners
Rear Spool Sliders

~Comming soon~
Front Axel Sliders
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1980 Kawi KZ1000 LTD
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 08:58 PM Thread Starter
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Great guys, Thanks for the input.

invader- Reed Valve? Please elighten me oh giver of the mechanical knowledge. I will be adjusting sensor tomorrow.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-06-2010, 10:01 PM
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Yeah, the reed valves' air inlet that you plugged on "top of the case". Make sure it's well sealed up to prevent any air ingestion... PAIR stands for Pulsed secondary Air Induction Reed valve system.

You can also buy air induction block off plates in pairs.

Ivan's # AK-KAW3: http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/other.htm

http://www.indysuperbike.com/custome...oductid=114952

Graves # AB_011: http://www.gravesport.com/cgi-bin/sh...on&key=AB__011

http://www.kneedraggers.com/details/...R--625120.html

Muzzy # 0038-00008: http://www.muzzys.com/block-off_plates/index.html

http://www.schnitzracingstore.com/ca...?prodid=342295

Circuit 1 # EP-K1-03: http://www.circuit1.com/index.cfm?fu...ail&prodid=260

http://www.motorcycleworldonline.com...7-ZX14-07.html
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 06:14 AM
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After having 2 months of down time due to the winter season I’m having second thoughts with the cherry bomb setup. The popping is very uneasy on my nerves when the rpm’s drop from deceleration. It must be related to a lean condition and I’m pretty positive that a Power commander V should fix the problem. But do I want to spend another $300 or put that money into something more useful like hard luggage. So I’m going back to stock and buying some Givi hard cases. Good luck finding a solution.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 05:50 PM
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I plugged my pair line by pulling the hose fitting off the airbox and tapping the hose barb bore 1/2-20, then screwing a short piece of bolt in as a plug, and putting it back together. I have a Leo Vince SBK slip on, and use a PC V with Autotune, which has cured the exhaust pop problem by richening up the idle. This is the answer to all of the driveability concerns, and has really made a difference powerwise.

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-26-2010, 08:44 AM Thread Starter
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Quick Update,
Put the bike through about 200 miles of riding after having replaced my homemade Pair Valve plug with a Circuit 1 plate (thanks invader- looks clean and from the factory) as well as retaping the connection between stock manifold and slip on TB pipe. I had also adjusted the Throttle Position Sensor counterclockwise to increase the idle RPM. So, at this point i have graduated from a grumbling backfire, to the potentialy less-desirable 'bang'.
I must say that I'm hoping that a juice box will be the answer to this, if not, you guys may see a hole bunch of TB stuff coming up on the "For Sale" section of the forum. I'll keep everyone posted as to when I purchase and install the box.
Thanks for everyone's contributions
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-01-2010, 07:41 PM
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on the JB, can you adjust idle specifically, or is it just the lower rpm's in general? It's nice on the PC V to be able to just fatten up the idle by itself, which cured the popping for me.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-01-2010, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
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Good question.... I haven't purchased mine yet..... anybody know?
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-02-2010, 09:44 AM
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With the Juice Box, all you can do is press buttons. The PC-V allows you to pull up the current fuel map and make changes in any location without affecting the rest of the map. So, yes, you can richen up the idle at closed throttle and eliminate the notchiness felt at low rpm and throttle openings. If anyone in my area is interested in seeing the setup, I'd be happy to plug the laptop into the bike and demonstrate how everything works, including the Autotune module.

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-02-2010, 06:02 PM
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Only Two Brothers' Two Brothers Juice Box PRO can make fuel corrections like Dynojet's Power Commancer III and V. JB Pro's software is compatible with Power Commander, so you can download Power Commander maps to it. Like the PC, JB Pro can make fuel corrections (+ richer or - leaner) in 250 rpm increments, and at 9 levels of throttle opening (0% 2% 5% 10% 20% 40% 60% 80% 100%). PC V with autotune has the added advantage of fine tuning itself by making further corrections as you ride, based on its own oxygen sensor feedback... The standard JB (not Pro), Memjet, etc can only add fuel in a few broad settings by adding resistance the inlet air temperature sensor circuit.

Last edited by invader; 03-02-2010 at 06:06 PM.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 04:09 AM
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Hi there... I can tell you a few things re: popping that may help you... 1. is that the fuel we use here in Australia is Premium fuel (which is highly recommended at all times) and it will sometime have some popping in down changes or de-accelerations due to the un burnt fuel but that is wasn't something to be concerned about - 2. was that in changing the exhaust - one must make sure that the back pressure on the new Muffler is as good or near to the orginal because it will draw in extra air and cause muffler popping.... also another thing is to maybe have the timing slightly changed by your Dealership and this should help too....

Last edited by Andreas56; 03-09-2010 at 04:12 AM.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas56 View Post
Hi there... I can tell you a few things re: popping that may help you... 1. is that the fuel we use here in Australia is Premium fuel (which is highly recommended at all times) and it will sometime have some popping in down changes or de-accelerations due to the un burnt fuel but that is wasn't something to be concerned about - 2. was that in changing the exhaust - one must make sure that the back pressure on the new Muffler is as good or near to the orginal because it will draw in extra air and cause muffler popping.... also another thing is to maybe have the timing slightly changed by your Dealership and this should help too....
If the catalytic converter is removed, the PAIR valve hose needs to be plugged because it bleeds air into the exhaust system, causing popping on decel. If a PC is installed, the map can be changed to richen up the mixture at zero throttle opening. This also helps.

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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 07:24 PM
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I have installed the cherry bomb exhaust, with no other engine mods, it is very rare the motor ever pops, and if it does its minor. As I remember it would happen occasionaly with the stock muffler.
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 09:24 PM
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i didn't notice the loud backfire (after fire?) when i would ride near home. but when i went to Deal Gap last year i would use more rpm and more braking and it would backfire often. sometime right before a sharp cure. it would make me jump in my seat. until i can find a fix i am back to stock.
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