Interesting thoughts on Amsoil 10W40 - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-21-2014, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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Interesting thoughts on Amsoil 10W40

Not another oil thread, I promise!

Ok. I lied. But hear me out...

I noticed that my 2011 with about 12k miles seemed to be losing oil gradually. Now I don't say burning; because I have no evidence to suggest it was- that is- no change in exhaust look or smell. I changed my oil early this spring and had it perfectly leveled to the top line in the sightglass. Fast forward a couple of months, and it's noticeably below that mark. I took in for service this morning, and had a talk with the mechanic. When I told him what was happening he asked me directly- Are you using Amsoil? I found that sort of odd, and when I told him I was he recounted running into the same thing with 2 other bikes. Not specific on the models, past that they were bigger sport bikes than the V; and it sounded like one of them had gotten to a low enough level to do damage. Before everybody goes 2001 on me and gets out the femur bone for a good womping- I'm NOT trying to say anything against Amsoil. Up until now I've had no quarrels. I'm just rather curious if that could make sense? I know that different oils shear and do various other oily things at various temps differently and so on; but always presumed a negligible difference between the high quality oils in the long run. My mechanic suggested Mobil1, which I'm willing to give a shot. Thoughts? Anyone experience similar?


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Last edited by goat12; 07-21-2014 at 06:17 PM. Reason: words
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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-21-2014, 06:23 PM
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The oil level is suppose to between the 2 lines...Was using Amsoil in the Versys for 3 years no issues..Mobil 1 is not a true synthetic. Put it in the FJR for the first oil change then when my Amsoil came in i replaced it.

Mobile1 is no longer a true synthetic

Mobil sued Castrol for calling their oil a full synthetic. Which according to Mobil it wasnt a full synthetic like M1 since its not made from a Group IV base stock.

They lost the case, so they decided to start using the cheaper base stock just like Castrol,pennzoil etc. Why make a real synthetic that costs you more money to make then the competition who is charging the same price for their fake synthetic?

German Castrol Syntec 0w-30, Amsoil, redline are some of the few remaining TRUE synthetics( Group IV).

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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-21-2014, 06:52 PM
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All engines use oil, some more than others. How much oil has your engine used and over how many miles. Minor oil useage won't show up as exhaust smoke.
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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-21-2014, 08:30 PM
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Are you saying the oil usage changed drastically when you changed to Aimsoil? Or what exactly?
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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-21-2014, 09:16 PM
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Is there engine oil in your airbox drain hose?
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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-21-2014, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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Is there engine oil in your airbox drain hose?
I'll have to have a look when I pick it up. Will report back.


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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-21-2014, 11:14 PM
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Why is it at the shop? How many miles at what speed and in what temperature did you lose how much oil? Was it properly broken in the Motoman way?
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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-22-2014, 11:35 AM
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I have not heard of - nor is there any physical or chemical characteristic of a given oil of the same spec as another oil from another manufacturer - any reason that one oil should show more 'consumption" than another oil of the same specification, when used under similar circumstances.

There'd better not be, since, when a particular brand and spec of oil is new, that oil meets the same minimum specs as all other oils of the same designation - that the manufacturer of your engine specs for use in it. If you think about that for a minute - your engine's manufacturer has designed the engine to use the oil that they tell you to use in the manual under the conditions the engine is to be used - and only cares that the oil you use meets the minimum specs of the oil - and does not have any regard to how far the oil you are using exceeds those specs. And therefore, since exceeding those specs is expensive and in most cases unnecessary, most manufacturers don't... except they often will market to you in a way that may lead you to believe that they do. Or in fact that they do, and make claims that by exceeding the minimum spec, there is some perceived or real benefit to your engine...

Unusual oil consumption - ie., "it never used to use this much oil, now it does", is indicative of a change in circumstances - like abuse, some sort of slow failure mode, different conditions, etc.
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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-22-2014, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goat12 View Post
Not another oil thread, I promise!

Ok. I lied. But hear me out...

I noticed that my 2011 with about 12k miles seemed to be losing oil gradually. Now I don't say burning; because I have no evidence to suggest it was- that is- no change in exhaust look or smell. I changed my oil early this spring and had it perfectly leveled to the top line in the sightglass. Fast forward a couple of months, and it's noticeably below that mark. I took in for service this morning, and had a talk with the mechanic. When I told him what was happening he asked me directly- Are you using Amsoil? I found that sort of odd, and when I told him I was he recounted running into the same thing with 2 other bikes. Not specific on the models, past that they were bigger sport bikes than the V; and it sounded like one of them had gotten to a low enough level to do damage. Before everybody goes 2001 on me and gets out the femur bone for a good womping- I'm NOT trying to say anything against Amsoil. Up until now I've had no quarrels. I'm just rather curious if that could make sense? I know that different oils shear and do various other oily things at various temps differently and so on; but always presumed a negligible difference between the high quality oils in the long run. My mechanic suggested Mobil1, which I'm willing to give a shot. Thoughts? Anyone experience similar?
How often do you check your oil? Did you check it later the same day? a week or two later? Or just when you noticed it was down?
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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-22-2014, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goat12 View Post
Not another oil thread, I promise!

Ok. I lied. But hear me out...

I noticed that my 2011 with about 12k miles seemed to be losing oil gradually. Now I don't say burning; because I have no evidence to suggest it was- that is- no change in exhaust look or smell. I changed my oil early this spring and had it perfectly leveled to the top line in the sightglass. Fast forward a couple of months, and it's noticeably below that mark. I took in for service this morning, and had a talk with the mechanic. When I told him what was happening he asked me directly- Are you using Amsoil? I found that sort of odd, and when I told him I was he recounted running into the same thing with 2 other bikes. Not specific on the models, past that they were bigger sport bikes than the V; and it sounded like one of them had gotten to a low enough level to do damage. Before everybody goes 2001 on me and gets out the femur bone for a good womping- I'm NOT trying to say anything against Amsoil. Up until now I've had no quarrels. I'm just rather curious if that could make sense? I know that different oils shear and do various other oily things at various temps differently and so on; but always presumed a negligible difference between the high quality oils in the long run. My mechanic suggested Mobil1, which I'm willing to give a shot. Thoughts? Anyone experience similar?
I've been using Amsoil 10W-40 motorcycle oil with no issues or loss of oil. I find it hard to believe this is brand related as the differences between synthetic motorcycle oils is just not that great. Sludge from dino oil in an old engine can prevent worn seals from leaking and when you introduce a synthetic oil it can dissolve the sludge causing more noticeable oil leaks from the worn seals. What is the mileage on your bike?

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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-22-2014, 05:32 PM
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FWIW: I have been using Rotella T6 5w-40 for a long time (my bike has 53,000+ miles on it). I fill it to just below the top line in the sight window and go 5K between changes. I have yet to add ANY oil in between changes and my level stays the same, at least perceptively. I get about a tablespoon of oil (about an inch in the tube) out of the drain tube from the air box every 10K miles or so.

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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-22-2014, 08:57 PM
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My Amsoil 0W-40 AFF oil level doesn't visibly go down at all between oil changes...
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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-22-2014, 09:13 PM
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My Amsoil 0W-40 AFF oil level doesn't visibly go down at all between oil changes...
Not to change the subject, but why do you choose to use 0W-40 AFF opposed to their motorcycle oil?
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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-23-2014, 02:57 AM
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Its viscosity is a bit higher than 10W-40 MCF @ 100°C (212°F). It's also less expensive.

Its broad viscosity range and wax-free formulation make it excellent for use in both hot and cold temperature extremes. As an SAE 40 weight motor oil, AMSOIL AFF provides outstanding protection for hot operating engines, while its 0W rating and -60°F pour point ensure easy cranking, excellent cold weather starting and quick post-startup protection. Formula 4-Stroke® Power Sports is an extreme temperature lubricant that provides outstanding performance in high performance, recreational or work/utility engines.

Excellent For Transmissions
AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke® PowerSports Oil is wet clutch compatible and contains no friction modifiers to prevent clutch slippage, delivering maximum torque and power to the wheels; a critical feature for towing or high-horsepower engines. AMSOIL AFF meets the frictional requirements of JASO MA/MA2.

Superior Wear Protection
AMSOIL AFF is formulated with high levels of anti-wear additives that provide excellent protection for pistons, bearings and gears in transmission containing units, while its shear stable, SAE 40 viscosity delivers a thick lubricating film for an extra margin of protection in hard working engines.

Anti-Foam
Churning occurs in high RPM engines that can cause oil to foam, depleting its lubricating abilities and increasing heat and wear. AMSOIL AFF controls foam, promoting cooler engine operation and reduced wear.

Special Additives
AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke® PowerSports Synthetic Motor Oil contains robust dispersant/detergent additives that effectively neutralize the high levels of acids and combustion by-products prone to small engines. And it is anti-rust fortified for superior rust prevention, which is especially important in seasonally or infrequently used power sports equipment.

Applications and Recommendations
AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke® PowerSports Synthetic Motor Oil is recommended for four-stroke engines and transmissions on two- or four-stroke powered applications. It is an all climate/all season oil that replaces 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30, 10W-30 and 10W-40 oils for ATVs, UTVs, snowmobiles and other power sports equipment. Manufacturers include Polaris®, Honda®, Yamaha®, Ski-Doo®, Can-Am® (Bombardier®), Suzuki®, Kawasaki® and Arctic Cat®.

API SL/CF, SJ, SH, SG � JASO MA/MA2


ETC...

http://www.woodsbrosracing.com/amsoil/aff.htm

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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-23-2014, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
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Hi All- Sorry for the delay. To answer some of your questions:
1. I check my oil regularly, at least weekly. I watched the level drop between changes. Say from top sightglass mark to half siteglass, in same conditions, on the stands.
2. I have not yet had a chance to check the line coming off the airbox, though I'm fairly sure it may no longer tell me anything post-service (if cleared).
3. While it was not specifically broken in the motoman way- it was indeed done in a rough approximation, as I rode it home on highways and city streets from the dealership, making sure to work the motor, and not letting it hang out in any part of the rpm range too much.
4. It was in the shop for a number of little things. Namely the rewiring of my LED foglights, check of the valves (all in spec) and check on the vacuum sync (needed adjustment). Changed both spark plugs too.
5. I'm as wary of the thought that one brand would burn off more than another too, but at the end of the day I'm ok with trying something else. If nothing else I wind up knowing how my bike likes Mobil1. No biggie and I can go back to amsoil next change should I want to.
6. Insofar as when and under what conditions I lost the oil, it's hard to say. I have a short city commute daily, which I know is hard on the motor. I'd also done some 2 hour trips on the weekends. Hard to pin it down to any set of variables.

So I'm keeping a very close eye on it, and we'll see how she fairs. Definitely idles more smoothly now. I presume that was the vacuum sync adjustment.


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post #16 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-23-2014, 02:18 PM
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How many miles between oil changes??

It'll be interesting to see. Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40's viscosity @ 100°C (212°F) is actually a bit lower than Amsoil MCF's.

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post #17 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-23-2014, 03:26 PM Thread Starter
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Since I run it hard basically every day of the year (all winter, unless actual snow accumulation) I change it every spring regardless of mileage. I certainly don't hit 3k during the course of a year as my commute is short; but figure it couldn't hurt.


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post #18 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-23-2014, 05:50 PM
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Maybe it needs a good flogging, or an Italian tuneup of sorts to free up the rings of carbon.... What's the highest rpm you're ever achieved?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_tuneup
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post #19 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-23-2014, 10:50 PM
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Oh, an oil thread. I'll bite.

Mobil did not sue Castrol for using the term "synthetic". Mobil complained to the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureau. Their ruling was that the term "synthetic" is a marketing term and that Castrol could continue to use that term.

BTW, there is no such thing as a 100% PAO based oil. PAO's do not properly suspend the add pack, and do not swell seals. also, there are considerations of "cling" and "traction". 8%-12% of something else - typically a Group I (mineral oil) is used for these functions. In some cases, an ester base stock Group V may perform the same function. But be aware that large concentrations of Group V oil can tend to be corrosive.

2. Amsoil buys it's stock on the open market. Exxon-Mobil is (by far) the largest producer of PAO base stock. So, maybe there's a bit of Exxon-Mobil in every quart of Amsoil product. Take a look at the Amsoil testing and see how the Mobil oils usually come in 2nd......

3. Mobil markets a large variety of motor oils. To say that Mobil is no longer a true synthetic, one would need to specify which particular oil and grade, as they do market some Group III oils. Note that the vast majority of other companies "synthetic" oil is of the Group III variety.

4. I seriously doubt that any of the JASO-MA certified "synthetic" motorcycle oils are more than 50% PAO base stock. Slippery stuff, no doubt - but doesn't play well with motorcycle wet clutches.

Note that some of the best performing and longest lasting motor oils are a combination of several types of base stocks and a very robust additive package.

Want to see something that holds up in your shared sump motorcycle as well or better than most? Rotella 15W-40 conventional diesel oil.

Check out the used oil analysis for autos, trucks, motorcycles, lawnmowers and much more at www.bobistheoilguy.com

Real world data from members that post their used oil analysis from a variety of internal combustion engines. Sub-forums on greases, antifreeze, brake fluid, etc.

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled program.
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post #20 of 41 (permalink) Old 07-23-2014, 11:01 PM Thread Starter
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Maybe it needs a good flogging, or an Italian tuneup of sorts to free up the rings of carbon.... What's the highest rpm you're ever achieved?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_tuneup
Lol. Hadn't heard that term before now. I definitely think she benefits from a good working over now and then; and I'm not shy about running her way up in in the rpm range. There's a noticeable affect on idle smoothness and tends to 'feel' better for whatever that's worth. Since my commute is mainly stop and go traffic I make sure to run her out on the highway once every couple of weeks to burn up any crap...


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