Start Button Servo Cycle question. My bike takes time to start. - Kawasaki Versys Forum
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-16-2014, 09:56 AM Thread Starter
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Question Start Button Servo Cycle question. My bike takes time to start.


Hi everyone!

Since the last two weeks while I was trying to start my V on a cold days (2 C, 35 F), I noticed that it took more time to start than what it usually does: Normally I press the start button for half of a second and the bike starts running, but this time I kept the starter button pushed for like 3 or 4 seconds until it finally started. It have been happening since when the bike is cold.

I have seen in other posts that among all the possible reasons, my issue could be explained to either a low battery (due to cold), or a different fuel quality, or a combination of those. Even the cold itself could be the reason, as I will try to explain you shortly.

I noticed that under the circumstances, if I open the throttle just a bit while I press the starter button the bike starts immediately. I further noticed that my issue occurs because when I hit the starter button, the subthrottle valve actuator fully opens the (subthrottle) valve and then slowly begins to close the valve to a semi-closed position, moment in which the engine starts. On the contrary, when the subthrottle valve stays in the semi-closed position at the end of the ignition sequence (as in the video I attach) the bike starts immediately.

FYI, when I start my bike I normally turn on the ignition, I wait until the fuel pump finishes its job (time in which the subthrottle actuator makes its distinctive three whirring noises) and finally I press the starter button.

My questions are thus the following:
What is the boot sequence of the subthrottle actuator when the starter button is pressed?
(It seems that the pressing of the starter button leads to a starting sequence in the throttle body)
If the previous question is positive, does this sequence depends on the outside temperature?
The video I attach was taken today when the outside temperature was approximately (7 C, 45 F) and the subthrottle valve stayed on the semi-open position.
Even worse, does my bike has any problem?
(My bike is a 2007 Versys. I have heard about a glitch in the fuel mapping on the 2007 models, but I don't think it is related to it)

I have searched for starter button sequence on the internet, but I haven't been able to find anything.

I would appreciate very much your interesting contributions.
Cheers,
strtjx

strtjx

Last edited by streetjax; 02-16-2014 at 10:01 AM.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-16-2014, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetjax View Post
I noticed that under the circumstances, if I open the throttle just a bit while I press the starter button the bike starts immediately.
Make sure you have your normal warmed up idle set to 1300 rpm.

Also, what mileage are you at on the Versys and spark plugs? Have you checked your valve clearances and throttle body vacuum synch?

Last edited by invader; 02-16-2014 at 07:23 PM.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-16-2014, 08:33 PM
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Odd. It is mild here in Seattle compared to many places, but we had subfeezing temps here recently. A lot of mornings in the low 20's. Roads were dry, so no problem riding. My bike started immediately every time. Like, touch the button, and started. It has about 9000 now, and that was before I replaced the plugs. Sounds like you have something going on.

2009 Versys 16K

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-17-2014, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you very much guys for your answers.

@invader:
my bike is a 2007 with 9.800 km on it. Since it has that few mileage, no change on sparkplugs or fuel lines or pretty much anything have been made except for the brake fluid, oil and coolant, and it was because of their longevity.
The tachometer is at approximately 1.300 RPM when hot. I keep an attentive eye on it because of what have been posted on other threads (for optimality on energy generation and oil pressure).
What else do you thing could be convenient to check, invader?

@salishversys:
It is funny (for the lack of other word) because now that the temperature rose, it have been working at first touch on the start button as you saw on the video.
To be honest I am a bit afraid of start to messing up too much with the bike for as they say: "If ain't broke, don't fix it". But there could be something going on.

What can it be? :?
I will try to take a video when I find the problem again.

strtjx

Last edited by streetjax; 02-17-2014 at 02:33 PM.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-17-2014, 06:43 PM
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Subthrottle actuator cam raises your idle stop for a faster idle speed upon cold startup, which is normal... What muffler do you have on there, and what else was changed on your Versys? Where are you, and what type of gasoline and oil do you use? Was there old gasoline left in the tank fo a long time?

Spark plugs and throttle body vacuum synch are recommended at 12,000 Kms, but it would benefit from doing it now as it's over 7 years old. There may be some oxidation buildup on spark plug to coil contact, etc. Also, earlier models like my 2007 tended to have valve clearances that are unsufficient, especially on exhaust side. I had an exhaust valve clearance at just under minimum spec (0.20 mm) when I checked at about 4,500 Kms.

Last edited by invader; 02-18-2014 at 03:10 AM.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-18-2014, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you very much @invader for your answer.

My muffler is the stock aluminum one (which I personally believe looks nicer than any other slip-on or fancy brand muffler).

I fuel my bike it with what here in Belgium is the EUR Super 95 (RON). I don't know where do you live, but that is the non-premium type fuel (although some brands call it premium 95 for some reason...). In America it would be 85-86 (MON) or 90-91 (AKI).

I think @invader that your suggestion of the old fuel could be the reason for the issue: the fuel was low and it kept there for like 1 month or more.
To further strength this idea, I have to say that the problem seems to have been vanished since I filled up again the tank on Friday when went to visit a friend 20km away from where I live (I live in Brussels) due to the fact that in the previous days the temperature had began to rise and I haven't used the bike for "long" rides since some time.

Tonight I will put the bike outside of the garage. Forecasts say that it will be 5 C, so I will see if some cold could reproduce the issue. I will keep you posted.

strtjx
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-18-2014, 10:39 AM
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Ok, sounds good

Do you know if your gasoline is ethanol-free?
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-18-2014, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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Post A possible answer! :)


Hello @invader and @salishversys!
I finally get filming the process of the "lengthy" startup!

After seeing the video a couple of times, finally I think I have an answer for the riddle of the subthrottle valves openings when I press the Start Button.

In short, I think I have to change the battery!

Now, strtjx's Nerd corner:

The cause of this conclusion resides on the following claim:

I make a claim in which I explain why does my bike sometimes opens the subthrottle valves during the time in which I press the Starter Button on cold days. I believe that this happens because the battery is low on charge (due to cold and maybe age) as I will explain next.

It is well known that when the Starter Button is pressed, the Electric Starter drains a lot of electricity out from the battery. When the battery is low on charge, pressing the Starter Button turns the Electric Starter which drains a lot of energy out of the battery and decreases the voltage provided to the ECU and electric components of the Fuel Injection system.

The Electronic Fuel Injection (FI) system of the bike works over a predetermined voltage level provided by the battery. The voltage provided by the battery to the Electronic Fuel Injection (FI) system is reduced during the time the Electric Starter is rotating as a consequence of pressing the Starter Button.

My claim is that when the battery is at a certain low level and the Starter Button is pressed, the voltage supplied to the Electronic Fuel Injection system decreases to a level so low, that the Electronic FI system shuts itself off and also the Electric Starter stops rotating. During the time in which the Electronic FI system shuts itself off but the Starter Button is kept pressed, the battery regains strength up to a level acceptable for the Electronic FI system to power up again. It makes the Ignition sequence start one more time, namely, the servo valves check to their full open position and all the checking of the electronic components is performed by the ECU. Since the Starter Button is kept pressed, the Electric Starter start to rotate for the second time at the same time that the Ignition checking is performed.

Since the opening of the Main Throttle valve is performed by the Electronic FI system at the end of the checking cycle of the Subthrottle valves (I explain it on youtube's description of the previous video), the motorcycle engine starts running at its self-sustainable level only at the end of the check cycle of the Subthrottle valves. It explains why the Electric Starter can be heard doing a double cycle of rotations during the startup process, the Subthrottle valves open immediately during the pause of the two cycles of rotation of the Electric Starter and the fact that the motorcycle engine begins to run at its self-sustainable level only at the end of the Subthrottle valves check cycle.

That is the end of my plausible explanation. As I previously mentioned, this is just a claim. Better explanations are always welcome.

To be completely fair, the video was taken this afternoon and the bike was not very cold, since we were at around 7 C (45 F). This could explain the fact that actually the engine started to run at very low RPM's after the first cycle of the Electric Starter.

What do you guys think?

strtjx

Last edited by streetjax; 02-18-2014 at 04:09 PM.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-18-2014, 07:51 PM
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Hah, yeah that makes sense... Is it the original Yuasa battery made in China? Mine is still good enough, and I also have a 2007.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-19-2014, 10:16 AM Thread Starter
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Yes @invader, I think it is the same battery for I have never changed it.
Actually I was thinking in buying a battery charger soon. I guess the time has arrived.

Sorry vader (which means "father" in Dutch and is a funny word game with your nickname), but I have forgot to answer your previous question. I think here we don't use ethanol-free fuel for the Diesel smells like bio. Although I have to say that I know here in Belgium ethanol is not produced and therefore possibly not mixed with fuel.

strtjx
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