R1 shock fitted - need spring source. - Page 19 - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #361 of 371 (permalink) Old 09-29-2018, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by asphaltaddict33 View Post
...Race Tech states the stock R1 rear spring is 9.5kg/mm, your rate of 15kg/mm seems like a drastic increase, does it feel like it on the bike?

Also curious, but assuming that the preload adjuster still works with the new spring and adapter?
I weigh about 190 to 200# in full ATGATT. My springs are 13.8kg/mm, and I set the preload adjuster to TWO steps from the SOFTEST.

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post #362 of 371 (permalink) Old 09-30-2018, 02:10 PM
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Thank you @abramsgunner and @fasteddiecopeman that is great info and helps a lot with planning this project.

I am assuming that the Gen3 spring rate is similar to previous generations, RaceTech states 16.7kg/mm for the first 2 generations and has no info for 2015+

The RT calculator is a little confusing though, I weigh 135 without gear, and the RT spring calc says to use a 16.1kg/mm spring... so the stock spring which is way too stiff for me.

Based on your reports it sounds like the stock R1 spring weight is probably very close to what I need, so i'm going to look for a lightly used and cleanly presented R1 shock to try without a rebuild for a while.

2016 Versys 650LT - Madstad, T-Bob, LeoVince, SeatConcepts, HyperPro CSC Damper, Shoodabeen Flashed
2003 KLR 685 - +1mm IN & EX SS valves P&P, Innovate Wideband O2 Sensor, Progressive 465 w/ RAP, ThermoBob
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post #363 of 371 (permalink) Old 09-30-2018, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by asphaltaddict33 View Post
Thank you @abramsgunner and @fasteddiecopeman that is great info and helps a lot with planning this project.

I am assuming that the Gen3 spring rate is similar to previous generations, RaceTech states 16.7kg/mm for the first 2 generations and has no info for 2015+

The RT calculator is a little confusing though, I weigh 135 without gear, and the RT spring calc says to use a 16.1kg/mm spring... so the stock spring which is way too stiff for me.

Based on your reports it sounds like the stock R1 spring weight is probably very close to what I need, so i'm going to look for a lightly used and cleanly presented R1 shock to try without a rebuild for a while.
When looking, I BELIEVE you want either an '07 or '08 R1 shock.

FWIW - I have 63,250 kms on my '15, of which MOST is on the R1 [THIS after I removed it from my '09 at 63,xxx kms when it became an "insurance-write-off", MOST done on the R1 shock]; and my '08 in AZ has just over 79,000 miles, w/ PROBABLY 60,000 or thereabouts on it's R1.

A friend from CA came up a year or so ago ('16 V650LT), traded bikes for a few miles, then PROMPTLY bought a used R1 shock for HIS V, and LOVES it...!

So far, NEITHER of MINE has given ANY problem, and has NOT been rebuilt.

-

Ed
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Last edited by fasteddiecopeman; 10-01-2018 at 12:44 PM.
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post #364 of 371 (permalink) Old 09-30-2018, 08:14 PM
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Wow thats impressive they are holding up so well without rebuilds, which is great news cause thats $300 minimum I imagine.

And that makes me feel even better about the one with 13,000 claimed miles I just bid on for $85 shipped

2016 Versys 650LT - Madstad, T-Bob, LeoVince, SeatConcepts, HyperPro CSC Damper, Shoodabeen Flashed
2003 KLR 685 - +1mm IN & EX SS valves P&P, Innovate Wideband O2 Sensor, Progressive 465 w/ RAP, ThermoBob
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post #365 of 371 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 08:51 AM
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I finished front side revalving (see here https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...9-post100.html) and I am satisfied. Used Phoneman64 as starting point.. see link. Also original CST insreased to 42 by mixing Motorex 7,5 and Motorex 10.

Rearoriginal shock was opened and some shims were removed and some are added for better flex. I did not had time to record all shims diameter and thickness and numbers. Guy who repairs shocks says it is by personal preference. I told him to remove some of them so I can get less fast speed compression.

In general from valve opening to the bottom: Few large shims (I would say 3, ONE REMOVED) then few less diameter shims so large ones can flex. Then again few thicker large shims (I would say 5 pcs, 2 removed), then some smaller shims.. After those smaller shims few low diameter shims added so whole stack can flex better.
New showa oil added, and probably rubber seal replaced. Nitrogen chamber pressure still holds ok..

Result.. similar ride feeling as front revalved side.. but still maybe harder then front side, but much much better..

I am 100 kg (220 lbs) and I think STOCK 16,7 kg/mm spring at stock shock is TOO STRONG. Even for me. and EVEN MORE for less weight riders.

First I set static sag to be 33% of total sag that is about 48 mm od 145 mm total. This is achieved by preload at position about 3 of total 7.
This setup gives FREE SAG of 18 mm. This free sag is too big which means stock spring is too stiff. Instead lower spring rate spring should be used with higher preload to give identical rider sag !!!!

It is usually claimed that free sag should be about 5-10 % of total sag or 15-25% of rider sag. 18 mm free sag at stock spring equals about 37% of rider sag and about 12,5 % of total sag.
Also this is measured without full bags. Adding bags for the same rider sag .. preload should be increased. Adding preload makes affects the same rider sag and static sag, because bags are part of motorcycle, not rider. Motorcycle weight does not affect static sag, static sag is purely affected by rider weight and spring constant only if in both cases rider sag is set up correctly

According to this math says we can use this formula.

RW1 = Old Rider weight
RW2= New Rider weight
K1 = Old spring constant
K2 = New spring constant
deltaSS = difference of spring length between old static sag and new static sag
Shock travel 50 mm, Rear end travel = 148 mm, approximation = 1:3

3 = Wheel travel VS Shock travel ratio

(K1*3*RW2 - K2*3*RW1) / (K1*K2) = deltaSS

Well to make this more simpler I will use my results:

Rider sag = 48 mm /3 = 16 (shock spring travel)
Static sag = 18 mm /3 = 6 (shock spring travel)
RS - SS = 30 mm /3 = 10 (shock spring travel)

10* 16,7 kg/mm = 167 kg /3 Rider weigth 55 kg which rear end sees

RW2 = RW1 (still we do not change rider, maybe if I sell my bike hehe )
K1 = 16.7 kg/mm
K2 = 14 kg/mm (new spring)

deltaSS = 3*RW * (K1-K2) / (K1*K2)
3* (16.7-14)/ (16.7*14) = 1,9 mm

deltaSS = 1.9 mm
delta SS *3 = 5,7 mm

Old static sag 18 mm
New static sag 18 mm - 5,7 = 12,3 mm -> 8,4 % of Total travel, or 25 % of Rider sag.... Result is within the limits..

Lets try 13 kg/mm spring:

deltaSS = 2,81 mm
delta SS *3 = 8,43 mm

Old static sag 18 mm
New static sag 18 mm - 8,43 = 9,56 mm -> 6.6% % of Total travel, or 20 % of Rider sag.... Result is within the limits..


Conclustion: When you make spring of lower rate, less kg/mm above formula gives change of Static Sag.. But to get identical rider sag as before we HAVE TO USE LONGER spring or same length spring with more preload (which is not possible without special spacers)

Formula for determination of how much spring should be longer (or how much spacers should be added) to get identical rider sag with new spring rate:

MW= Rear side motor weigth without rider. I took 80 kg, but can be measured putting rear end on scale

deltaL = (RW+MW )*3*(K1-K2)/(K1*K2)

For my case:

deltaL = (80 +55) *3 *(16,7-14)/(16.7*14) = 4,68 mm ---> new 14 kg/mm spring should be 5 mm longer.

Hopefully this all I wrote is correct
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post #366 of 371 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 06:41 AM
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Now, I dont know to buy R1 shock at all or not. Because in my case original shock was opened and shims were removed to reduce compression. Are there any drawbacks of R1 shock vs original?
If R1 shock is designed for only 9 kg/mm spring, should R1 shock be revalved for Harder spring? Maybe rebound valving should be increased (more shims or thicker shims) ? I presume compression is OK, because at original position compression turn adjuster according to comments on this thread R1 shock is ok?
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post #367 of 371 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by velikigrizli View Post
Now, I dont know to buy R1 shock at all or not. Because in my case original shock was opened and shims were removed to reduce compression. Are there any drawbacks of R1 shock vs original?
If R1 shock is designed for only 9 kg/mm spring, should R1 shock be revalved for Harder spring? Maybe rebound valving should be increased (more shims or thicker shims) ? I presume compression is OK, because at original position compression turn adjuster according to comments on this thread R1 shock is ok?
I'm about 180# PLUS riding gear, say 200# total, and BOTH my R1 shocks are using EIBACH 13.8kg/mm springs, pre-load set at TWO up from ZERO, and I'm VERY happy w/ it that way.

I WOULDN'T go back to STOCK except to sell the bike - IF EVER!

Fastoman and quexpress like this.

Ed
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post #368 of 371 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velikigrizli View Post
Now, I dont know to buy R1 shock at all or not. Because in my case original shock was opened and shims were removed to reduce compression. Are there any drawbacks of R1 shock vs original?
If R1 shock is designed for only 9 kg/mm spring, should R1 shock be revalved for Harder spring? Maybe rebound valving should be increased (more shims or thicker shims) ? I presume compression is OK, because at original position compression turn adjuster according to comments on this thread R1 shock is ok?
I'm running an R1 with 13.8 spring on my '08. I'm closer to 235 lbs, and I run it on about the 7th notch of preload.. I really need a stiffer spring, but would not go back to the stock shock

'08 Versys.. Givi rear rack, JCW trunk and E21's, Givi shield, Madstad bracket, Speedy peg and mirror brackets, lowering kit, SC Seat, R1 Shock.. other stuff. '09 KLX250 setup for singletrack. 2011 Xterra, '80 CJ-7

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post #369 of 371 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by abramsgunner View Post
I'm running an R1 with 13.8 spring on my '08. I'm closer to 235 lbs, and I run it on about the 7th notch of preload.. I really need a stiffer spring, but would not go back to the stock shock
Try using the original spring from the Versys . I did it as the R1 spring was way too soft.
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post #370 of 371 (permalink) Old 04-21-2019, 01:03 PM
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Try using the original spring from the Versys . I did it as the R1 spring was way too soft.
You realize that the R1 shock on a Yamaha has a 'linkage' rather than the direct action it has on a Versys...?

IF you have an R1 shock on your bike, Fastoman, w/ the V shock-spring, at YOUR WEIGHT - I would expect that it would be WAY TOO stiff. (I'm just about 20 pounds heavier than you are.)

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post #371 of 371 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 08:45 AM
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I use back the original Versys-09 spring and no problem at all. No bottom out or cutting any plastic and I am in at 70KG. ride is awesome as the versys ride over bumps and handing on twister is good.
I did remove some length of the spring to get the right setting , but its sure is the original Versys spring. You just have to fine tune it.
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