Help me my engine is dead? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-22-2009, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
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Help me my engine is dead?

Hi everyone...
Im using a 2007 versys at 18000km.I did the 1000,6000 and 10000km service check and maintenance.And always check the oil level before riding...
1 week ago i was riding my bike at curvy roads up and downhill at mostly 2nd [email protected] rpm mostly and used the 1nd gear for 1-2 kms for a downhill and saw my engine heat lamp is red...
Immediately pullover and waited it to turnoff.10-15 mins later it is gone...Still everything was normal...

Today again went to the same route and longer...Filled my tank with 95 octane and reset my odometer.Everything was cool until i heard a metal grinding or tapping sound at 75th km. and pull the clutch lever,slowed down.After a few meters my engine stopped.Rode a few meters at neutral with the help of a small downhill and pulled over.Tried to start it again but same noise and engine didnt want to start.One more try with the help of a little positive gas,still nothing and same noise.Called the road help and send it to the service.The guy at the service said it is a serious problem and need to take the engine down,open it and search the problem...My warranty have ended 1 month ago and im curious about the cost...

Any ideas what the problem is?The gas i took at the morning is my first time gas station.Can it be the bad fuel or something?
Or as far as i read from forum can it be a fuel valve problem?
Or worse than those situations,can it be connected to the heat increase event 1 week ago?So can it be an engine death?
Please help me...

Last edited by gokhanbolut; 08-22-2009 at 04:03 PM.
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post #2 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-22-2009, 05:42 PM
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The metal grinding or tapping sounds like it could be an engine failure (piston/small-end bushing maybe), after some overheating damage possibly... How high was it revving when engine-braking downhill in 1st gear? Did you let it idle when you stopped with the overheating lamp on? Was the radiator fan blowing then? Which country are you in? Do you mean 95 RON gas (91 North-American pump)? That's not the cause anyway. A fuel valve? You mean an injector or intake/exhaust valve? I don't think so... What type of oil do you use? How was it broken-in?

Last edited by invader; 08-22-2009 at 05:47 PM.
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post #3 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-22-2009, 07:06 PM
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Interesting, this is the second Versys to have an engine failure a month after the warranty expired. At about the same miles too.

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post #4 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-22-2009, 07:38 PM
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I think there's more to these "failures" than what's being revealed. All modern day engines are extremely reliable, they just don't fail for no reason unless it was run low on oil, coolant, or just abused and neglected. I would like to see a follow up on the cause of these failures with iron clad documented proof, not hear-say. I'll bet it has nothing to do with a manufacturing defect.

Last edited by mcrider; 08-23-2009 at 06:10 PM.
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post #5 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 09:38 AM
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will it turn over but not start or will it not even turn over? was it a grinding or tapping sound? was it a knocking sound? sounds help to distinguish if it is a valve or piston or crank & rod problem. either way you have lost the compression to turn over the engine so it will have to be torn down. how steep of a hill were you on that you needed to be in 1st gear? riding an engine like that (no gas under decel) can also cause a valve to float in some situations. Good luck, keep us posted, but sounds like you need a rebuild or new engine.
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post #6 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrider View Post
I think there's more to these "failures" than what's being reported. All modern day engines are extremely reliable, they just don't fail for no reason unless it was run low on oil, coolant, or just abused and neglected. I would like to see a follow up on these failures with iron clad documented proof, not hear-say.....I don't expect that to happen.
On the other hand, manufacturing defects and improper assembly do happen.
Anyone who has removed one of their wheels can tell you that Kawasaki doesn't practice what they preach with respect to the torque wrench.

I can't imagine a hill so steep and treacherous that I'd be engine braking in 1st, that sounds like a possible source of a problem but I still would expect a 'modern engine' which was properly assembled to handle it.

Either way I think he may need to start looking for salvaged engines and find a local shop or some buddies who can help him put it in.
Turned one up on eBay with a quick search.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/06-08...Q5fAccessories
This certainly sounds like a nightmare scenario.
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post #7 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 10:19 AM
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This is a serious failure.
How does the oil look? Does it smell cooked?
Check your coolant and if it's circulating well.

I saw a V in the workshop a while back and it suffered overheating problems. They found that the one of coolant pump fin was broken inside.

Good Luck.

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post #8 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 10:54 AM
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I think that the statement about engine braking in first gear is the key. It's very easy to over-rev an engine way past redline by downshifting at too high a speed for the gear used, and the rev limiter won't save you. The valves will float and hit the pistons, and either bend or break off. If the valves are just bent, a valve job may save it, but a broken one will generally bust the piston and run through the engine.

Too bad that someone had to learn the hard way.

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post #9 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 12:13 PM
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pull a plug

First and easiest thing to do is pull a spark plug and look at the tip. If it's mangled, you know something is bouncing around in the combustion chamber. If it looks good, do a compression test. This will tell alot without a bunch of un-neccesary teardown.

There is also pulling the exhaust manifold and looking in the port if you are concerned about exhaust valve condition....
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post #10 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
I think that the statement about engine braking in first gear is the key. It's very easy to over-rev an engine way past redline by downshifting at too high a speed for the gear used, and the rev limiter won't save you. The valves will float and hit the pistons, and either bend or break off. If the valves are just bent, a valve job may save it, but a broken one will generally bust the piston and run through the engine.

Too bad that someone had to learn the hard way.
I tend to agree with that possibility.......if so, blame it on rider error and / or maintenance neglect, not a manufacturing defect.

Last edited by mcrider; 08-23-2009 at 08:50 PM.
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post #11 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 06:42 PM
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Kawasaki has been known to stand behind bikes AFTER the warranty runs out . Get your dealer to contact the service rep.
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post #12 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by invader View Post
The metal grinding or tapping sounds like it could be an engine failure (piston/small-end bushing maybe), after some overheating damage possibly... How high was it revving when engine-braking downhill in 1st gear? Did you let it idle when you stopped with the overheating lamp on? Was the radiator fan blowing then? Which country are you in? Do you mean 95 RON gas (91 North-American pump)? That's not the cause anyway. A fuel valve? You mean an injector or intake/exhaust valve? I don't think so... What type of oil do you use? How was it broken-in?
I didnt let the engine rpm go past the redline.Prolly it was near 8ooo rpms for a few secs less than a minor so.When i saw the lamp,immediately pulled over.First waited it to cooldown at idle for some minutes.hecked the fun and yes it wasworking but still didnt cooldown so turnedoff the vand waited it some more minsandthen yes it was gone...

i live in Turkey so it is 95 Octane...İ am the second owner so i dont know the breakin period tale but i assume that it was the way it must be cuz first owner was a good biker...
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post #13 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
I think that the statement about engine braking in first gear is the key. It's very easy to over-rev an engine way past redline by downshifting at too high a speed for the gear used, and the rev limiter won't save you. The valves will float and hit the pistons, and either bend or break off. If the valves are just bent, a valve job may save it, but a broken one will generally bust the piston and run through the engine.

Too bad that someone had to learn the hard way.
I didnt pass or reached the redline while downhill at 1st gear.it was at 8-9k rpms for less than a min.And after cooling no problems on the way back...After the 1st gear story i used my v for a week and was no ploblems,no heat lamp,no strange sound,no powerloss or something...I like the rpms but not at the redline so my max rpm was at 9k when i was riding at the nightmare day
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post #14 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 08:21 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by russo View Post
will it turn over but not start or will it not even turn over? was it a grinding or tapping sound? was it a knocking sound? sounds help to distinguish if it is a valve or piston or crank & rod problem. either way you have lost the compression to turn over the engine so it will have to be torn down. how steep of a hill were you on that you needed to be in 1st gear? riding an engine like that (no gas under decel) can also cause a valve to float in some situations. Good luck, keep us posted, but sounds like you need a rebuild or new engine.
it tries to run when i start it but want some positive gas,so i didnt tried so much cuz it has the same sound. but at service service guy started theengine and it run with the same sound so it didnt stopped with a jammed piston or something.And thanks god,it didnt locked the pistons or wheel while riding on it...İt was a good downhill withsome curves and hairpins so i was on 1st gear with 8-9k rpms for some seconds.The sound looked like this as far as i describe;U take a hard piece of stick but not metal,put it on the first bar of a jail bar that has 1-2 cm gaps between them,and walk it by the bars touching all of them with the stick from one side towards the end but not a metal stick.And the sound frequency was the same with the motor at idle...
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post #15 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
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As last,i didnt down shifted to 1st gear from 2nd or 3rd speed to sudden slowdown for engine braking at the day the heat lamp turned on,i just slowed by the brakes from 2nd gear, put it to the 1st gear and then took the hairpins with the 1st gear at proper rpms.so it wasnt a sudden impact on the engine,it was a smooth transfer from 2nd to 1st.It shouldnt be the cause to ride the bike for a few secs at 1st gear for a 1-2 miles at under redline
But thanks for your opinions...Ill be in touch or the news,service will check it at tuesday and i will learn the problem,so will be back with my punishment cost

Last edited by gokhanbolut; 08-23-2009 at 08:34 PM.
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post #16 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-24-2009, 08:26 AM
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Only thing I can see that might have been a mistake was to keep the engine running at idle on the side of the road. if anything you want to shut it down immediately and wait for it to cool or if your near a downhill section put it in top gear or pull in the clutch and coast down hill with it running so more air gets over the radiator. Personally i would have just pulled over and shut down for a while. Did you ever wonder what caused the overheating in the first place? maybe a lean running condition from being under decel for so long in 1st gear? maybe you cooked a piston? Just throwing out ideas.

I am a little confused by your sounds description but it sounds like a knocking noise which would mean crank/rod bearings.

As said before pull the plugs, look for damage, do a compression test. or best bet yet, talk to the dealer and kawasaki and see if they can help in any way since you are so close to the warranty expiring.

Good luck
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post #17 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-25-2009, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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Hey guys...
This is what happened...I went to service and saw my unlucky engine It has been damaged like hell...How can it be so severe in a few seconds? Oh God...

Here is the story;one of the valves jammed at its place and broken then started to bounce,and 1 more breaking.Then 2 of them was embedded to the piston and 1 made a hole on the piston :crazy

The bouncing effect damaged both upper cylinder head and main cylinder block :O

So here is the punishment cost:
totally 3500 Euros (5000$) plus service fee of 500 Euros (650$) :banghead
As a reference my bikes used selling value is nearly 6000 Euros(9000$) so the repair cost is more then half of my bikes value...

Pls help me to find a used spare engine for my v. I found 1 for 1200 Euros in Germany and looking for it now...


Here are the photos...


sorry couldnt make these 2 photos rotate ...They seem normal at photobucket but here is not :S




Last edited by gokhanbolut; 08-26-2009 at 07:31 AM.
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post #18 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-25-2009, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
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By the way according to my service guy , the most possible reason of this mess is BAD FUEL...With the help of this bad fuel the inner degree increased and jammed one of the valves then it has been broken.U know the rest of the story.Now i took a sample from my fuel depot and thinking to make a quality test via a qualified lab and go for it to the fuel brand.May be who knows there is a small chance...
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post #19 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-25-2009, 04:49 PM
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Bornrider had the same problem. "Well, the valve keeper came out of place and dropped the valve into the cylinder."
"Issue was valve keepers became unseated and the valve did not stay shut or open. It kinda of just flubbed around."
"Mobil 1 synthetic. Max rev I run is around 6K, 80 to 83 MPH. (also used a Power Commander)" It was fully repaired on warranty. It's not caused by bad fuel.
http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ht=stuck+valve

Last edited by invader; 08-25-2009 at 04:54 PM.
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post #20 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-25-2009, 04:59 PM
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Bad fuel doesnít do that. Thatís a keeper failure, cam timing problem or con rod failure.

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