Ethanol on gas... - Kawasaki Versys Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 03:53 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Ethanol on gas...

Hi there.
Would like to have your impressions and/or experience so far, in using the gas mixture with ETHANOL <form of alcohol generally a sugar cane, corn, beats, derivative, mixed with gasoline>. This has become a trend worldwide and difference may be in proportions. In Panama (Central America) is what you would call E5, as opposed to E10 and E15 I have read there are in other countries (a ratio of 5, 10 or 15 percent ETHANOL per gallon of gas). There is a general resistance to this imposition as to impact in automotives that may have no provisions to function with this fuel, if any. Mayor concerns are now with small engines (water pressure machines, generators, etc.) and why not: MOTORCYCLES, let alone our V's, for one. Some have said not to allow the tank to reach below a quart of its capacity, given Ethanol tends to produce high condensation, therefore water formation into the tank and a pathway to hoses and carburators, etc. This combination evaporates more rapidly, therefore mileage is affected. I am not an expert at all on the subject but wish to sense your concerns, and I may have lost the Forums bringing up this topic.
McGyver is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 07:18 AM
MTS
Member
 
MTS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NW USA
Posts: 3,518
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
My bike runs great with or without it on highest octane. Found a station without it and that's the one I try to go to all the time.

Also its best not to use jet cleaner in the fuel.





To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
( RIDE FREE BE SAFE )
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by MTS; 09-16-2013 at 07:23 AM.
MTS is offline  
post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 07:54 AM
Member
 
genehil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Mount Dora, FL
Posts: 1,251
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
I run regular (87 octane) E10 gasoline all the time without any problems. I average between 48 and 52 miles per gallon. I run the same stuff in my truck, riding lawn mower, push mower, edger, generator, string trimmer, etc..

GeneHil - Mount Dora, FL
2011 Kawasaki Versys
Viet Nam: Dec67-Dec68 & Jul69-Dec72

Last edited by genehil; 09-16-2013 at 07:56 AM.
genehil is offline  
 
post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 09:18 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 594
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Haven't had problems yet with E10 (it's all that's available here). I have been using treatment in it year-round. Either Stabil marine or Startron enzyme treatment.
HondaGalToo is offline  
post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 09:33 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wisconsin, 25 miles north of Milwaukee
Posts: 1,567
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by genehil View Post
I run regular (87 octane) E10 gasoline all the time without any problems. I average between 48 and 52 miles per gallon. I run the same stuff in my truck, riding lawn mower, push mower, edger, generator, string trimmer, etc..
+1.

But a couple of years ago, when real (regular) gas was available here along side E10, I did find that I got better mpg with real gasoline. That is because gasoline contains more Btu/gallon than ethanol.

I've read that E15 is not good for motorcycles, small engines, or older cars.
trialsguy is offline  
post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 12:52 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 181
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
As long as you're regularly going through the gas, and not letting it sit for a month+, it should be fine. Even with a stabilizer, gas that's been sitting for a few months makes my mower and weedwhacker run a bit rough.
TwoTacoCombo is offline  
post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 01:03 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wisconsin, 25 miles north of Milwaukee
Posts: 1,567
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
When I put my V away for the winter, I fill the tank with 100% gasoline (no E10), and some gas stabizer, then run it to get the stabilizer into the injectors. The only hitch - is I have to ride to the next county to get it, and it is only available in Premium. But that way there is little or no ethanol sitting in the tank or fuel system, to cause moisture or corrosion over the winter.
trialsguy is offline  
post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 01:13 PM
Member
 
Retro Rocketeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
I handle the majority of servicing and major repairs for our states training bikes. Ethanol damage and corrosion problems are real. Attached is a picture of a float bowl from a TW200. This bike got used about 3 weekends in one month. Not what you would call commuter use by any means, but more than some bikes get used recreationally. Those yellow/orange booger blobs you see are the biomass created from phase separation. Those are pretty large. You can bet they'll clog up small passages, and they do. Look closer. The float bowl also appears to have a lot of speckling. That is etched aluminum. The ethanol eats away at the soft metal. Your fuel system out of the tank is aluminum and brass. When I clean away those blobs, it will leave behind similar pitting/etching.

Those blobs are not always present when I get a "bike won't run" service call. Sometimes I pull the carb apart and it looks clean to the inexperienced eye. I've learned to look for the speckling of the metal. I pull the pilot jet and sure enough, can't see light through it. Its plugged by debris created from the etching of its own metal. I've had to un-obstruct same bikes twice in just four weeks of use.

Non-ethanol stations are not conveniently located around our training areas for our instructors to use real gas. We have been using Star-tron, Seafoam, and Lucas, whatever is easy for our instructors to source in their areas. We've cut down on these fuel problems by about half now, though problems still arise.

Its funny. When you read about this stuff in AMA and the newspapers, they say they are talking to congress and agencies about "alleged ethanol damage", and I get to clean all this "alleged" for the state and other customers.

More and more bike shops will not guarantee a carb clean for more than a month now.

My recommend? Use non-ethanol when you can. If you are using your engine daily, like your commuter car, its less of an issue, as there's less time for phase separation. The corrosion is still gradually happening though. I use Lucas in my Yukon and Subaru every 3rd fill up, though is B.S. I should need to. Eliminate the ethanol so we don't have to use even more money to increase the true price per gallon.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC08148.jpg (64.3 KB, 145 views)
Retro Rocketeer is offline  
post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 03:20 PM
Super Moderator
 
fasteddiecopeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kelowna, BC - summer; Florence, AZ - winter
Posts: 17,822
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trialsguy View Post
...I've read that E15 is not good for motorcycles, small engines, or older cars.
Me TOO!




Ed
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


'08 V AZ, '15 V650LT BC
Ride to D2D 2013, June '13

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Ride to D2D 2015, June '15

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Ride to D2D 2016, June '16

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fasteddiecopeman is offline  
post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 04:48 PM
Member
 
Tigerpawed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,044
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Here's the American Motorcyclist Association's "E15 and Motorcycles Q&A": http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/..._Q_A.sflb.ashx

and their current issues "action" page should you wish you inform your elected representatives of your opinion: http://capwiz.com/amacycle/home/

Someday is not a day of the week.
Tigerpawed is offline  
post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 06:07 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
I appreciate the feedback from you all. I think that one and each has a lecturing experience and force to readjust maintenance schemes and measures to be taken to prevent damage or malfunction to our investments. I just have a final concern: I want to ask the architect of this ETHANOL idea, in any event, where and what he fills up... because as gathered, some have no choice. Eligibility should be optional. Cheers
McGyver is offline  
post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 06:23 PM
Member
 
Arion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Antonio, TX & Moosehead Lake, ME
Posts: 3,295
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
There aren't too many choices when it comes to buying gas in small town central Maine but, fortunately, one of the marinas on Moosehead Lake sells non-E gas at it's boat fuel dock and that's what I fill the bike's tank with before it goes into storage for the winter - along with a fuel stabilizer.

I wouldn't put E15 in any of my vehicles any more than I would fill them with corn syrup.

Arion

"Plan? Plan! There ain't no plan."
Pig Killer, Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome
Arion is offline  
post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 06:28 PM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,842
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
invader is offline  
post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 07:43 PM
Member
 
DaveC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON Canada
Posts: 918
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
So, would Seafoam also work?

http://seafoamsales.com/sea-foam-with-ethanol-fuels/

Dave C
2008 Versys (Red)
DaveC is offline  
post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 07:54 PM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,842
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Seafoam Motor Treatment is just a cleaner, and is not specifically formulated to protect againt the harmful effects of ethanol in gasoline... They are only stating that it can be used with ethanol fuel.
invader is offline  
post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 07:55 PM
Member
 
Tigerpawed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,044
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Five pure gas stations in all of California, all at the extreme North end of the state. Welcome to paradise.

Someday is not a day of the week.
Tigerpawed is offline  
post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 09:24 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Florence SC
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
I was pleasantly surprised to find several gas stations in the Florence SC area that sell ethanol-free gas. Since that discovery, I have used pure gasoline for the last several fill-ups. I figure it can only be good in the long run especially since I'm not using my V for daily commuting.

Interestingly, I took a recent trip up to Richmond VA and there were no stations listed there that sell pure gas. I guess it helps if you live relatively close to lakes or waterfront where there is a large boating community.

2012 Kawasaki Versys
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MichelinMan67 is offline  
post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 09:54 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 145
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
There have been countries using this for very long. Brazil is a pioneer using alcohol, I remember in the 80s if you took a car to Brazil that wasn't prepared for their cocktail you had to use many additives to avoid the fuel to destroy the engine.

I don't like ethanol and much less when corn is subsidized by the government.
I believe it ought to be an option and not a mandate..

I can get non ethanol fuel but mid grade only, and if I could chose I would get pure gas but in FL ethanol is everywhere.

Alcohol is hygroscopic it will absorb water, also it will separate from the gas and ruin the engine and rubbers in older vehicles. Unless you use your vehicle daily (like your commute vehicle)

I don't know why the US went for Ethanol instead of CNG. That is cheaper, cleaner and leaves corn to feed people.




Sent from Motorcycle.com App
Murquiza is offline  
post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-17-2013, 05:16 AM
Member
 
MaverickAus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
Posts: 2,039
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Garage
I won't use ethanol fuel for the reasons offered above. My personal opinion.
MaverickAus is offline  
post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-17-2013, 12:40 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Youngstown, OH
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
No problems with ethanol in either the Versys (regular) or the car (premium).
TR Versys is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Versys Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome