Throttle body sync problem - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-18-2013, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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Throttle body sync problem

I did a TB sync yesterday using my glass bottle manometer. All of the threads related to this say to keep the right TB screw closed, and adjust the left one. Assuming these are all using the convention that "left" means left when sitting on the bike, I ran into a problem. Long story short, I wound up having to turn the left screw all the way in, and back the right one out slightly for it to come into balance. With the right screw in and the left out, it always seemed to pull to the left. The bike seems to run fine, but the idle sounds slightly off and I'm noticing a new vibration in the front cowlings with my knees at low revs. This is a CA model, so there's that stupid canister hanging off the left TB vacuum port, which I couldn't have hooked up during the test. Could this cause an imbalance? Did I screw something up that I haven't caught yet?
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post #2 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-20-2013, 12:11 AM
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It's usually the right screw that is closed, as yours was. So it was probably better synched before you adjusted it when idle quality was better... Glass bottle manometer? Is it homemade?
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post #3 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-20-2013, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
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It's usually the right screw that is closed, as yours was. So it was probably better synched before you adjusted it when idle quality was better... Glass bottle manometer? Is it homemade?
Yeah, it's my homemade carb sync tool I used for my EX500. A tube from each vaccum port goes into a rubber stopper in each bottle, and then a tube connects the bottles. It's filled with some regular motor oil,. which I agitate and blow bubbles in before using. It makes it super simple to see which way the oil is flowing. I had it adjusted dead nuts on, where the oil wasn't moving either way at idle. The bike isn't running poorly at all, and seemed to start up better yesterday, right before I caught a drywall screw in my rear tire just around the corner. I'll have to run it again after I get my new tire in, and see if it wasn't all in my head...
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post #4 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-21-2013, 05:48 PM
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Taco, I have a homemade one as well but just a long length of tubing taped to a stick, no bottles. Yours sounds fancy! Good to know someone else is as cheap as I am. I need to do a synch this weekend - anything else you couldn't reconnect? Sounds like the airbox needs to come off? I remember some discussion on the SV forums about some folks thinking the airbox should be reinstalled and others saying "no difference". One nice feature on that bike though was you could raise the front of the tank up and prop it with a little stand that snapped under your seat. One less thing to worry about.

I can't see the CA emissions stuff would make any difference, it's simply supplying vacuum to the canister while operating, I don't think there's an input from the system to the ECM at all.

Hopefully Invader will pipe back in, he had a Versys back when the wheels were made out of stone.
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post #5 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-21-2013, 07:59 PM
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post #6 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-21-2013, 09:08 PM
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I used the home made one described in another thead here. It's just a long clear tube zipped to a plank, with some two-stroke oil in it. Seems to work just fine. I also needed to adjust the right rather than the left TB in order to get them synced.
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post #7 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-23-2013, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
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I need to do a synch this weekend - anything else you couldn't reconnect? Sounds like the airbox needs to come off?
Unless you have really tiny hands made of asbestos, I'd recommend pulling the air box. I couldn't get my ape mitts in the tiny space in front of the TBs far enough to reach the vacuum ports, and there's no way you're going to get them capped again when the engine is hot. Also, unless you have a 90 degree screw driver, you can't adjust the sync from the side. I'll be doing this all over again this weekend, because I've definitely caused more vibrations at freeway cruising speed..
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post #8 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-23-2013, 01:00 PM
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Thanks, SV650 was the same way - had to get my son to put the vacuum tubes on! I ended up adding two lengths of tubing to the vacuum ports and stashing them close to the side of the bike with their own vacuum caps. On one hand, it's one more place to leak, but it did make it convenient for the next synch.
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post #9 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 11:59 AM Thread Starter
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Well, I went back this weekend and rechecked the sync. Couldn't have been any more perfectly balanced, according to to my Sobe bottle contraption. Pulled the evap system out for good measure, too. The bike is still much more buzzy than before, especially around 5k RPM. I can feel it in the bars, pegs, and seat. Anybody have any ideas why this is? I know p-twins aren't the smoothest running things, but there is a noticeable difference between then and now.
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post #10 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 09:56 PM
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Try a resync with a manometer proper?

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post #11 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 10:25 PM
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You synched it at 1300 rpm? How much mileage on the Versys and on spark plugs? What gasoline grade and ethanol content are you burning?
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post #12 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-27-2013, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
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You synched it at 1300 rpm? How much mileage on the Versys and on spark plugs? What gasoline grade and ethanol content are you burning?
As close to 1300 as I could get, according to the bike's tach. I got one of the digital tachs where you wrap the lead around a wire, but it was useless. Any recommendations for a diagnostic tach that works with coil on stick systems?

10,500 miles, just replaced the plugs about 2 months ago. 89 octane, 10% ethanol. Definitely noticed the change in buziness immediately after tinkering with the vacuum sync. Didn't touch anything else in that round of wrenching, other than to clean and lightly oil the stock air filter.
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post #13 of 55 (permalink) Old 10-01-2013, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
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Digging this one up again. This weekend I checked the TB sync with a dual gauge vacuum sync tool. The right TB was running just a hair lower than the left, so I adjusted it so they were both dead nuts on. The vibration is just as bad as before. The idle seems to be fine now, but in all areas of the rev range, it's much buzzier than before. When I'm cruising flat and level, it's a real high frequency vibe that really tickles the nether regions. When I get on the gas, or try to keep a steady speed while going up a steep hill, I can feel each pulse of the cylinders firing. Feels like having an out of balance tire at a high speed, or holding onto a miniature jackhammer. I can feel the vibes in the bars, pegs, knees, and my mirrors are far more useless than before.

Performance and fuel efficiency seems to be the same as always, so this is just an annoyance as far as I know. I know it's a parallel twin, and they vibrate, but this bike used to be so much smoother before I monkeyed with the screws. Is there anything else I should look for or try? I pulled the plugs again this weekend, and made sure they were properly gapped and seated. The air filter is clean as can be. I'm going to try a different brand of gas next fill up, maybe go up a grade. Other than this, ideas?
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post #14 of 55 (permalink) Old 10-01-2013, 05:53 PM
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Is it worse between 2500 and 4500 rpm? You could try rotating main throttle sensor counterclockwise just a tad to add some fuel ro the mixture. Did your Cali model come with the sensor actually at clockwise of its green reference mark? Excessisvely lean A/F ratio does cause the engine to vibrate significantly more than it should... You can also try 91 octane, ethanol free if possible.
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post #15 of 55 (permalink) Old 10-01-2013, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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Is it worse between 2500 and 4500 rpm? You could try rotating main throttle sensor counterclockwise just a tad to add some fuel ro the mixture. Did your Cali model come with the sensor actually at clockwise of its green reference mark? Excessisvely lean A/F ratio does cause the engine to vibrate significantly more than it should... You can also try 91 octane, ethanol free if possible.
It's actually worse from about 4800-6000, freeway speeds in 6th gear. It's almost the feeling of chugging in too high a gear with too low an RPM, but not as pronounced. My sensor was spot on with the green factory mark, and I checked the voltages with a multimeter, which were within spec. One thing I have noticed lately is where my headers used to be pretty much uniformly gold colored, bluing is starting to creep out from the engine side. I don't know if this is just a function of time, or if I am running leaner/hotter for some reason. Maybe I'll adjust the sensor a touch and try a tank of higher grade fuel to see if it helps.
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post #16 of 55 (permalink) Old 10-01-2013, 06:17 PM
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Air filter is clean enough and not over-oiled?
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post #17 of 55 (permalink) Old 10-01-2013, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
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Air filter is clean enough and not over-oiled?
Yep. The vibe problem started around the time I cleaned the filter for the first time. I thought I may have put too much oil on it, so I completely cleaned it again and lightly misted it with the oil. It's just barely tacky to the touch, and I can still see right through it as of this weekend.
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post #18 of 55 (permalink) Old 10-01-2013, 06:48 PM
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There is also a loss of power at 4800-6000 rpm? It's actually sounding too rich. Maybe it's related to your evap canister hoses. Are they connected to your TB's at all? I'd like to see the whole setup. Charcoal canister is removed and hoses are rearanged?
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post #19 of 55 (permalink) Old 10-01-2013, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
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There is also a loss of power at 4800-6000 rpm? It's actually sounding too rich. Maybe it's related to your evap canister hoses. Are they connected to your TB's at all? I'd like to see the whole setup. Charcoal canister is removed and hoses are rearanged?
No loss of power that I can detect. Just much sharper vibration pulses at that range, more so when under heavier throttle. I was having this problem before I tore out the evap system. That's part of the reason why I did so, because it was a pain having to work around that monstrosity while dealing with the vacuum sync. My current setup is both TB vacuum barbs capped, the barb in the middle/bottom of the TB assembly for the evap return line is capped, the red barb on the tank is capped. The blue tank line (cap vent) has a hose run to ground (and is currently weeping alien drool). No loss of power, no FI light,no backfiring, etc.. but I could charge money to let the ladies ride this thing, if you know what I mean.
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post #20 of 55 (permalink) Old 10-01-2013, 07:24 PM
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Year and mileage? Left TB's right barb is capped, and left TB's left barb is well connected to IAP sensor hose? Maybe it's just normal vibration now that it's broken in with good compression... It should however be silky smooth frrom 5100 to 6000 rpm. So the alien slime is ultimately coming from your fuel tank?

Last edited by invader; 10-01-2013 at 07:32 PM.
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