Engine lurching off closed throttle - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-11-2013, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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Engine lurching off closed throttle

I am trying to figure out if the, off/on throttle, engine lurching is my poor technique or the fueling is too lean just off closed throttle.
I find that when I am turning a corner or slowing down, close the throttle and then open it again to accelerate there is a sudden and nerve racking hesitation followed by too quick acceleration.
Is my chain too loose?
PO did a sprocket change for lower RPM, problem?
Normal for this bike or all FI bikes?
TPS need adjustment?
TB sync?
Bike needs a power commander and remap?
Is there a mechanical doohickie that helps with this, installed in the throttle cable?
It seems worse when really hot out.
Should I feather the clutch? I have to pay an inordinate amount of attention to this when riding it seems. Always anticipating the next instance.

Any ideas or similar experience?
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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-11-2013, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basstodave View Post
I am trying to figure out if the, off/on throttle, engine lurching is my poor technique or the fueling is too lean just off closed throttle.
I find that when I am turning a corner or slowing down, close the throttle and then open it again to accelerate there is a sudden and nerve racking hesitation followed by too quick acceleration.
Is my chain too loose?
PO did a sprocket change for lower RPM, problem?
Normal for this bike or all FI bikes?
TPS need adjustment?
TB sync?
Bike needs a power commander and remap?
Is there a mechanical doohickie that helps with this, installed in the throttle cable?
It seems worse when really hot out.
Should I feather the clutch? I have to pay an inordinate amount of attention to this when riding it seems. Always anticipating the next instance.

Any ideas or similar experience?

Why would you close and open the throttle in this fashion?....the result sounds normal to me.


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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-11-2013, 08:23 PM
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If I understand you correctly, upon decel (engine drag) you twist the throttle to add power, you are getting a powerful surge (jerk), then yes my opinion is your technique.

Usually if I am in a pretty good engine decel and need to goose it, I either do it gracefully until the tranny catches up to traction or I clutch and feather as I goose it if I need a powerful takeoff.


The V does lurch and jerk if your not careful with your throttle hand.
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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-11-2013, 08:37 PM
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Yes it is a lean hesitation/lurch/surge at slight throttle opening and mostly at near 2800 rpm, and you can cure it by rotating the main (lower) throttle sensor slightly counterclockwise. Stock setting has the TPS voltage output at under spec range at WOT. Setting it withing spec results in the idle position voltage output being a bit above spec and adds enough fuel to greatly improve driveability and tractability... Synchronizing the throttle bodies may help as well, especially after adjusting valve clearances.

You might also consider trying the TB vacuum access fittings' 6", 5/32" ID coupler hose mod... Year and mileage?

Last edited by invader; 08-11-2013 at 08:52 PM.
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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-11-2013, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
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Yes it is a lean hesitation/lurch/surge at slight throttle opening and mostly at near 2800 rpm, and you can cure it by rotating the main (lower) throttle sensor slightly counterclockwise. Stock setting has the TPS voltage output at under spec range at WOT. Setting it withing spec results in the idle position voltage output being a bit above spec and adds enough fuel to greatly improve driveability and tractability... Synchronizing the throttle bodies may help as well, especially after adjusting valve clearances.

You might also consider trying the TB vacuum access fittings' 6", 5/32" ID coupler hose mod... Year and mileage?
2009 with 12K miles.

Do you have a link for the mod?
I will soon be taking it in for a valve check. I'll have the mechanic do the TPS adjustment and TB sync.
Is the TPS accessible without removing anything? and is the rotation something that I can do without a tool to measure resistance or however it's done?
Thanks Invader!
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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-11-2013, 09:37 PM
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All you need is a T25 Torx tool... Look at the main (grey) throttle sensor's green alignment mark on its front from near your front left flasher, and note how it ligns up. Loosen sensor screw with T25 Torx tool. Rotate sensor counterclockwise by about half a millimeter as seen on pic. Adjust, then tighten Torx screw. This raises WOT output voltage to within spec range instead of just below it, with idle position output voltage at slightly above spec to add just enough fuel at low throttle opening range. Main throttle sensor's new position:



Main throttle sensor Torx screw:



Fast idle may then be higher. You can rotate subthrottle sensor (black, just above main throttle sensor) also counterclockwise with T25 Torx screw to reduce cold fast-idle rpm. I rotated mine to its maximum counterclockwise position, to which it was already near. Subthrottle sensor's new position:



Try it out, then you can fine tune it with more minute adjustments if you like, to add just enough fuel at low throttle opening for good driveability.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ead.php?t=1412
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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-11-2013, 09:42 PM
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Vacuum hose mod further smooths out low end throttle response without sacrificing performance... 6" (15 cm) long 5/32" (3.83mm) ID vacuum hose on both TB vacuum ports. Leave the left outer IAP hose alone:

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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-12-2013, 03:44 AM
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Vacuum hose mod further smooths out low end throttle response without sacrificing performance... 6" (15 cm) long 5/32" (3.83mm) ID vacuum hose on both TB vacuum ports. Leave the left outer IAP hose alone:

Sometimes the engineers who designed the engine are smarter than we give them credit for. As the intake valves wear it is common for one cyl to be slightly better than the other at drawing air. You want the volume of air in each cylinder, after the intake stroke, to be identical so the force of the explosion in each occurs with the same intensity. This means less vibration. The purpose of balancing the separate throttle bodies with a gauge is to restrict the air flow in one throttle body more than the other to compensate for differences in the intake efficiency of each cylinder. This is why it is important to do a sync immediately after a valve adjustment as well as annually.

If you were to put a T connector in either end of the hose above to connect a sync gauge to each throttle body, the synch gauge would erroneously balance, but it would do so because of air flowing between the throttle bodies in the hose, not because the cylinders are drawing the same amount of air.

Last edited by versys_rider; 08-12-2013 at 04:40 AM.
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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-12-2013, 06:18 AM
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It will run better if the TB's are synched, no matter if a coupler hose is used or not.

As a matter of fact, the smart Kawasaki engineers have adapted a coupled TB hose T'd to Cali's fuel evaporative system's solenoid valve:


Last edited by invader; 08-12-2013 at 06:42 AM.
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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-12-2013, 10:11 AM
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Wow!!! great info on this problem (which l'm also experiencing) guys.

Such a shame other forum members just went for the easy & uneducated option of telling the thread starter that his riding techniques were at fault!!
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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-12-2013, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Britmick View Post
Wow!!! great info on this problem (which l'm also experiencing) guys.

Such a shame other forum members just went for the easy & uneducated option of telling the thread starter that his riding techniques were at fault!!


If you close the throttle completely during a turn and/or deceleration and then crack it back open you're gonna get a brief hesitation and then a brief kick in the pants.I don't see that as an uneducated statement...just a fact on pretty much any twin.


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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-12-2013, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basstodave View Post
I am trying to figure out if the, off/on throttle, engine lurching is my poor technique or the fueling is too lean just off closed throttle.

PO did a sprocket change for lower RPM, problem?
By "PO did a sprocket change for lower RPM, problem?" (gearing it HIGHER) I would say - very likely, along w/ too lean. Try normal gearing (IF you got the 'take-offs'), or try doing the same things in a lower gear, and see whether that stops the problem, or not.

(On my KLR the first gear was quite high, and occasionally in a tight-turn, slow-speed manoeuvre I would get the "stall, fall" when the rpm was just a bit low.)

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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-12-2013, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Britmick View Post
Wow!!! great info on this problem (which l'm also experiencing) guys.
Such a shame other forum members just went for the easy & uneducated option of telling the thread starter that his riding techniques were at fault!!
By adjusting your motor settings you could make your bike more driveable. But you do not have to. You can compensate the imperfections by feathering the clutch (in this case...) or not let go of the throttle that quick. Or try another gear....
Change of setting will make it easier for a not so experienced (which is not always the same as uneducated) biker to ride his/her bike...
So Britmick, you are right, but not to the full extent...

Last edited by anders55; 08-12-2013 at 12:46 PM.
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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-12-2013, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SeattleSlammer View Post
If you close the throttle completely during a turn and/or deceleration and then crack it back open you're gonna get a brief hesitation and then a brief kick in the pants.I don't see that as an uneducated statement...just a fact on pretty much any twin.


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That's a lean condition coming off idle. And it's to do with the emissions calibration. It can be eliminated with a Power Commander.

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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-12-2013, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by invader View Post
All you need is a T25 Torx tool... Look at the main (grey) throttle sensor's green alignment mark on its front from near your front left flasher, and note how it ligns up. Loosen sensor screw with T25 Torx tool. Rotate sensor counterclockwise by about half a millimeter as seen on pic. Adjust, then tighten Torx screw. This raises WOT output voltage to within spec range instead of just below it, with idle position output voltage at slightly above spec to add just enough fuel at low throttle opening range. Main throttle sensor's new position:



Main throttle sensor Torx screw:



Fast idle may then be higher. You can rotate subthrottle sensor (black, just above main throttle sensor) also counterclockwise with T25 Torx screw to reduce cold fast-idle rpm. I rotated mine to its maximum counterclockwise position, to which it was already near. Subthrottle sensor's new position:



Try it out, then you can fine tune it with more minute adjustments if you like, to add just enough fuel at low throttle opening for good driveability.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ead.php?t=1412
Hey Invader

My bike is a virgin when it comes to those setting, a canadian 2009, is it safe to think that before checking anything else, it would benefit from those mod ?

LOP
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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-12-2013, 02:41 PM
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So Britmick, you are right, but not to the full extent...
Well danka mein Scandinavian amigo, I feel so much better now that you've given me the benefit of your "educated" input!!!..........

PS,Seattle, don't get yer knickers in a twist, 1st off l wasn't getting at you, & second we should assume that a 'biker with more than 5 minutes riding behind him will take note of where the sweet spots & the grabby spots are on various throttle openings......sheesh!.........
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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-12-2013, 03:08 PM
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TwistedKnickers was my second choice for my handle here.


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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-12-2013, 06:46 PM
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Hey Invader

My bike is a virgin when it comes to those setting, a canadian 2009, is it safe to think that before checking anything else, it would benefit from those mod ?

LOP
Yes, for sure.

You're absolutely right, Britmick... Very well said.

As ttpete stated, it is a lean off idle condition for emmisions calibration. You don't have to compensate and put up with it, and use special techniques and compromise the clutch, when the fueling glitch can be corrected.
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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-12-2013, 07:09 PM
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Nothing like fixing the "root" of the problem. Start at the source and work your way out, not at the end and work your way in.
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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 08-13-2013, 08:21 AM
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I just happened to stumble on this recent video of a Versys with what he calls "ISP" (specific vacuum impulse) vacuum hose mod, tested under light acceleration from low rpm:

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