Thump, thump, thump... - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-24-2009, 01:12 PM Thread Starter
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Thump, thump, thump...

Given that it is soooo easy to diagnose noises on the forum, uh, I have this rythemic thump coming from somewhere in the rear drive line. I will pull the wheel this weekend and further investigate. My question is, does a single rear wheel rotation, equal a single chain rotation? I can figure this out if I want, but it seems simplier to ask. That will help me narrow it down to dry link in the chain, bad tire, bearing failing, or some other stupid thing. Any guess appreciated. Will post if there is a nail head sticking out of the tire!
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-24-2009, 01:29 PM
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little, just checked rotation 2 and half tire rotation to 1 chain rotations hope it helps ride safe

Last edited by bultaco; 04-24-2009 at 01:32 PM.
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-24-2009, 03:48 PM
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The length of the chain has nothing to do with the ratio of the wheel rotation.
It is all dependent upon the number of teeth on the counter shaft sprocket and the rear wheel sprocket. For simplicities sake, letís suppose the counter shaft sprocket has 15 teeth and the rear wheel sprocket has 45. The ration is therefore 1 to 3. The counter shaft will turn over 3 times for every 1 time the rear wheel turns. It would not matter if the chain had 100 lengths or 500.
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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-24-2009, 03:49 PM
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Opps::: "lengths" should be "links"
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-24-2009, 04:24 PM
 
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The length of the chain has nothing to do with the ratio of the wheel rotation.
I think when you say something like "ratio of the wheel rotation," it has to be in reference to something else. I'm no mechanic, but I'm pretty sure the length of chain has everything to do with the ratio of wheel rotations to chain rotations.

(e.g. A 45 link chain run on a rear wheel sprocket with 15 teeth will result in 3 wheel rotations per chain rotation. A 30 link chain run on a rear wheel sprocket with 15 teeth will result in 2 wheel rotations per chain rotation.)
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-24-2009, 06:43 PM
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Your chain could be unevenly stretched, causing it to go tighter, looser, tighter and so on as it rotates. See if chain tension varies as you turn the wheel.
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-24-2009, 09:29 PM
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Your chain could be unevenly stretched, causing it to go tighter, looser, tighter and so on as it rotates. See if chain tension varies as you turn the wheel.

X2. Chain too loose and unevenly stretched. Might be thumping the arm or chain cover.

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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 01:36 AM Thread Starter
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Ok, any other guess you guys? I tore the bike apart last night. Rear wheel bearings are good, tire is good, torque are all up to speck on remount. Rear brake checks out, I went through every link of the chain for binding, measured the chain slack at 3 different points and it checks out. Rolls without any resistance when it is on the jack. I give. I still have this thumping at lower speeds, probably just can't hear it as the speed goes up. It is worse when I am braking, and I feel it in the pegs. Clutch in or out, it doesn't matter. I can hear it, too. Hard to isolate, but is is coming somewhere from the pegs back. 7200 miles on the bike, and I also lubed the bobbins, just in case.

Swing are bearings? I am doubting this, because of the low mileage, and the bike has yet to see rain. Oh, head bearing also torque correct, but I know what those feel like when they go.

Somebody guess.
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 06:04 AM
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There have been reports on the UK forum of warped brake discs, but I only remember it being a problem with the front discs. And besides, you said you checked your rear brake and all was well.
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 06:22 AM
 
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is it only intenser when you use the rear brake, or also when using front brake or both?

I assume disc is flat, no partial grinding of disc and pads??
You could try to open the rear brake as much as possible.
Thus increase the distance between disc and the brake pads, so the pads abolutele do not touch the disc. i.e. by putting a small wooden wedge between pads and disc to increase space.
then ride again, using front brake only.


else: maybe your rear tire is not "round" anymore.
did you perform any heavy braking? maybe you'll have to re-balance the rear wheel?
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 08:28 AM
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Put it up on a swingarm stand if you are able to do so and watch it in motion. Any rythmic "thumping" should be easily detectible. Look closely at the tire for a flat spot. Have you ever locked up the rear tire for a brief moment? I think you are missing something very obvious........
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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 10:07 AM
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CL - You didn't mention what was the chain tension overall. You said it wasn't different between the three sections, but was it on the loose side overall? If it's too loose that could be the source of the noise.

Gustavo


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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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All suggestions good- I did stick it on the swing arm lift and the tire appears round, equal distance from the floor, and as far as I can describe, the chain had fairly equal stretch all the way around. I did pay special attention to the master link- it was good. For fun, I hung the rear brake on the frame and road it without around the block. Same thump.

You are right, I am missing something obvious, but I can't find it. Poo.
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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken Little View Post
All suggestions good- I did stick it on the swing arm lift and the tire appears round, equal distance from the floor, and as far as I can describe, the chain had fairly equal stretch all the way around. I did pay special attention to the master link- it was good. For fun, I hung the rear brake on the frame and road it without around the block. Same thump.

You are right, I am missing something obvious, but I can't find it. Poo.

Did you check to make sure there was nothing trapped in the inner hub?
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 01:50 PM
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I'm going with Redline's suggestion of something in the hub....in any event I can't wait till you figure it out , the suspence is killing me!
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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by triskel View Post
is it only intenser when you use the rear brake, or also when using front brake or both?

I assume disc is flat, no partial grinding of disc and pads??
You could try to open the rear brake as much as possible.
Thus increase the distance between disc and the brake pads, so the pads abolutele do not touch the disc. i.e. by putting a small wooden wedge between pads and disc to increase space.
then ride again, using front brake only.


else: maybe your rear tire is not "round" anymore.
did you perform any heavy braking? maybe you'll have to re-balance the rear wheel?
I agree; most likely culprit is a warped/damaged rotor (perform check as mentioned above - although you should simply be able to pry the pads apart and ride without touching the rear brake) OR a flat spot on the tire. Obviously it isn't the motor as you said it doesn't matter if the clutch is in or out or what RPM the motor is at. Could also be a chain or wheel bearing issue, but my money is on the rotor.


Edit: Ooops, missed the last update; check the masterlink for contacting the chain guide (don't have my V here and can't remember what they have for a guide) just another idea.





Dave

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Last edited by DPelletier; 04-30-2009 at 01:58 PM.
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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Chicken Little View Post
All suggestions good- I did stick it on the swing arm lift and the tire appears round, equal distance from the floor, and as far as I can describe, the chain had fairly equal stretch all the way around. I did pay special attention to the master link- it was good. For fun, I hung the rear brake on the frame and road it without around the block. Same thump.

You are right, I am missing something obvious, but I can't find it. Poo.

But how much play (UP AND DOWN MOVEMENT MID CHAIN) was in the chain????


If it is too loose, it can slap. No chains are perfectly stretched, and the tight spot can cause the chain to slap if it's too loose as it rounds the front sprocket.

The chain slack should be measured here to rule it out. If you have like 21/2 plus inches... that might be your problem.

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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 02:47 PM
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Process of elimination;

ride the bike down a hill without the chain.

Dave

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2010 KTM 300XCW, 2007 KTM 200XC, 2006 KTM 200 XC,
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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 03:22 PM
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Does it make the noise if you pull the clutch in and coast with no brakes ? If you engine-break does the engine pulse rhythmically with the 'thump' sound ? These are both signs of a loose chain or a chain with a tight spot. I had a similar sound on my Drifter before I replaced the chain. It has a horrible tight-spot in it.
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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 07:04 PM
 
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I personally don't think it's the chain, caus' when pulling the clutch the tension on the chain is less, it is like in neutral position. that should the influence the thumping. and it doesn't as you said.

Try to exclude the engine by riding at the speed where the thumping is good noticeable, accelerate a little bit, shut of the engine (red button, don't know the exact name in english ;-) ) and then find out if it is still there.

It could be a bearing, which sounds great on a swing arm stand, but might give strange noises when loaded. That could also explain the vibrations you feel in the pegs. But just saw you checked the hub bearings. swing arm should have bearings to, but those would not produce rhytmic thumping.

or back to the tyre, if it seems round unloaded, that doesn't mean that it is still round loaded. may be you did once hit a curb? increase or decrease the pressure of your tyre to see if it influences the thumping.

I assume the tyre is correctly centered, and chain is aligned?

good luck, i am curious what it is.. ;-)

Last edited by triskel; 04-30-2009 at 07:25 PM.
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