After-buy ABS - Kawasaki Versys Forum
 
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-22-2009, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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After-buy ABS

I'm looking to buy a Versys but there are too few models with ABS up for grab. I've found some great bargains without ABS but I'd like my next bike to have it.

So, is there any way to add ABS to a non-ABS model? The dealer told me that Kawasaki isn't selling the ABS kit on it's own so it's not possible. Anyone got a bright idea? Or maybe they sell it as a kit in the US and not in Europe where I'm from (Greece).
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-22-2009, 04:10 PM
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Howdy

As far as i know there is no kit to add ABS to a non ABS bike. Also I would not have a V with ABS as it can not be turned off as far as I know. First time on a dirt road look out.


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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-22-2009, 05:02 PM
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I own V with ABS and I can say that you should buy without it. Once I've smashed cos of it. True is that if you can brake you will always stop your bike without ABS, and when you have ABS you don't have chance to use your braking skill. So think about this. I wanted to buy my V without ABS but I didn't have choice. By the way the best ABS is produced by Honda (in motorbikes). And about the after-buy ABS there is no chance, cos of fact that there are special modules, electronic chips and different brakes construction. Greets from Poland maybe someday I will come to Greece on my V

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-22-2009, 05:13 PM
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BMW has a fine ABS and you can do just about anything with it, dirt road, mud and wet pavement.

81 Honda CB750F with Jupiter sidecar, 82 Honda CB750F, 86 Yamaha Radian, 87 BMW K100RS, 2002 Honda XR 200R, 2007 Suzuki Bandit 1250, 2009 Green Versys, 2010 Kawasaki Vukcan 900 Custom
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-22-2009, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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Interesting, I was undecided about getting ABS or not, I guess I wanted to give it a shot since I've never owned a bike with it. I've only "tested" a friends Z750 with ABS and despite my dislike of the rear break not blocking (I can think of several situations where I would want to block my rear) I was way more confident with the front.

I've never really thought about dirt roads, and I really should as I'm planning to get the most out of this bike (until the new Super Tenere is released hopefully ).

I guess I'll go with the non ABS version and keep my skills sharp

PS: You're welcome at Greece at any time. I will probably be around Poland this summer, maybe I'll stop by to say hi.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-22-2009, 11:40 PM
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Interesting, I was undecided about getting ABS or not, I guess I wanted to give it a shot since I've never owned a bike with it. I've only "tested" a friends Z750 with ABS and despite my dislike of the rear break not blocking (I can think of several situations where I would want to block my rear) I was way more confident with the front.

I've never really thought about dirt roads, and I really should as I'm planning to get the most out of this bike (until the new Super Tenere is released hopefully ).

I guess I'll go with the non ABS version and keep my skills sharp

PS: You're welcome at Greece at any time. I will probably be around Poland this summer, maybe I'll stop by to say hi.

I'd like to know what those situations are. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just newish to motorcycling and everything I've read\been told says to never lock the rear.

Thanks

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2009, 03:07 AM Thread Starter
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I'd like to know what those situations are. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just newish to motorcycling and everything I've read\been told says to never lock the rear.

Thanks
Mostly to avoid a head-on collision. In a scenario when you can't avoid an object in front of you and the speed isn't too much (everyday traffic, on higher speeds is better to fly over the object if you can), I'd rather hit it with the side of bike. Also, locking the rear is the "smoothest" way you can fall on purpose, again to avoid a much worse outcome.

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2009, 11:52 AM
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Mostly to avoid a head-on collision. In a scenario when you can't avoid an object in front of you and the speed isn't too much (everyday traffic, on higher speeds is better to fly over the object if you can), I'd rather hit it with the side of bike. Also, locking the rear is the "smoothest" way you can fall on purpose, again to avoid a much worse outcome.
Well, that would not be my plan. "Falling on purpose" is going to have you hitting the object you're avoiding with greater speed than if you continue to apply brakes until you hit it. To add to that, you decelerate more (come to a stop faster) with the brakes applied (even if the tires are locked) than if you and your bike are sliding on the ground. I'd rather hit the object upright at a slower speed than slide into the object at a greater speed. Hopefully neither of us will let ourselves get into that position in the first place.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2009, 12:05 PM
 
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Well, that would not be my plan. "Falling on purpose" is going to have you hitting the object you're avoiding with greater speed than if you continue to apply brakes until you hit it. To add to that, you decelerate more (come to a stop faster) with the brakes applied (even if the tires are locked) than if you and your bike are sliding on the ground. I'd rather hit the object upright at a slower speed than slide into the object at a greater speed. Hopefully neither of us will let ourselves get into that position in the first place.
+1

Here's a good article about locking your brakes: http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=091&Set=

Here's a snippet:
Quote:
So, when does locking one or more of your brakes make sense? ONLY if you must stop as quickly as possible to avoid a major accident and the road surface is not firm! That is, in order to avoid serious injury when riding on snow, loose gravel, or sand! Further, ONLY IF YOU ARE driving in a straight line!!!
For regular street riding, ABS brakes are better than non-ABS brakes on pavement...period. Expert road racers might be able to stop faster with a non-ABS bike in a controlled environment, but 99.9% of us are not experts 99.9% of the time we don't ride in controlled environments.

A true dual-sport that offers ABS should have the option to turn it off for when you are riding in dirt (e.g. BMW GS)
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2009, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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Well, that would not be my plan. "Falling on purpose" is going to have you hitting the object you're avoiding with greater speed than if you continue to apply brakes until you hit it. To add to that, you decelerate more (come to a stop faster) with the brakes applied (even if the tires are locked) than if you and your bike are sliding on the ground. I'd rather hit the object upright at a slower speed than slide into the object at a greater speed. Hopefully neither of us will let ourselves get into that position in the first place.

You're thinking in terms of braking, I'm thinking in terms of positioning.

No doubt the maximum breaking is achieved by applying the brakes all the way, however in the cases where is clear that braking isn't going to cut it, "falling" separates you from the bike and thus the trajectory of it. Similar is my approach towards sliding the rear, positioning yourself in a way that may give you an advantage in that particular situation.

Of course in most cases the above is useless but in the rare occasion where I might need to lock the rear, I want to be able to do so.

Edit after reading the above post: To be honest most of my breaks locking thoughts come from dirt-bike riding, I've never had to lock the breaks in pavement to avoid anything (and hopefully none will) so I might be just thinking with the wrong parameters in mind.

Last edited by QSpec; 04-23-2009 at 12:21 PM.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2009, 04:39 PM
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To me, the worst situation is to lock up the rear and either have your leg smashed between the bike and the vehicle, or worse yet slide underneath and possibly be run over.

In the US, "I laid it down" is a lame excuse for not knowing how to use the brakes effectively. It's most often done by Harley and cruiser bike riders. Some manage to get away with it for their whole life. Others don't.....
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2009, 07:48 PM
 
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Some manage to get away with it for their whole life. Others don't.....
They all manage to get away with it their whole lives, it's just that for some, this is a shorter period of time than for others.

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2009, 09:24 PM
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You're thinking in terms of braking, I'm thinking in terms of positioning.

No doubt the maximum breaking is achieved by applying the brakes all the way, however in the cases where is clear that braking isn't going to cut it, "falling" separates you from the bike and thus the trajectory of it. Similar is my approach towards sliding the rear, positioning yourself in a way that may give you an advantage in that particular situation.

Of course in most cases the above is useless but in the rare occasion where I might need to lock the rear, I want to be able to do so.

Edit after reading the above post: To be honest most of my breaks locking thoughts come from dirt-bike riding, I've never had to lock the breaks in pavement to avoid anything (and hopefully none will) so I might be just thinking with the wrong parameters in mind.
Okay, I can see where you're coming from now -- dirt and pavement are two different beasts with different ways of riding them. On dirt there are times it may be better to lock a front tire.

I'm not sure I fully agree with you regarding separating yourself from the bike, though. Inertia dictates that if you separate yourself from the bike, you're still going to follow the bike or the bike is going to follow you. (Alternately, you might be able to get yourself to the side of the bike.) It might be advantageous to have the bike hit first, but either way it's going to hurt.
You're a better rider than I if you can manage to get the bike into a superior position before the crash. I've crashed on street once before and all I could do was say "Oh S***!!!!". Looking back, I had plenty of time to react, but I didn't. It was a learning experience.

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They all manage to get away with it their whole lives, it's just that for some, this is a shorter period of time than for others.
That was funny . And true.
Of course, I think sportbike riders lie to themselves, but it happens so fast they can't call it "laying it down". It's more like the bike laid them down.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2009, 09:36 PM
 
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You're a better rider than I if you can manage to get the bike into a superior position before the crash. I've crashed on street once before and all I could do was say "Oh S***!!!!". Looking back, I had plenty of time to react, but I didn't. It was a learning experience.
This is really the take-home point: if you're anything like acinonyx or myself, all of your braking skills are likely to fly out the window in an emergency. I've never crashed, but I've had a couple close calls where I've had to make panic stops and locked the rear brake. Luckily, I was going slow enough when the rear locked up that I didn't dump it but had I locked it while going faster I would have almost certainly gone down. If my bike had ABS, all I would have had to do is apply full pressure to both brakes and the rear wouldn't have locked and I wouldn't have been at risk of losing control of the bike.

And I would think it would be safer and more effective to practice and hone your braking skills on an ABS bike; instead of actually locking a wheel when you overdo it, you simply feel the ABS kick in.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2009, 10:12 PM
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To the best of my thinking, about the only time I would want to slide it on the street would be if a Semi trailer somehow materialized out of nowhere perpindicular to me, and I had a chance to slide under it. I think I have a better chance of collecting from that UK internet lottery than I do of encountering such a scenario. I also think just slamming the bars to lock would get me the same result, no need to lock the rear to go down.
Soft stuff can be a different matter, but the V ain't for soft stuff anyway.

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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-24-2009, 07:07 AM
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I own V with ABS and I can say that you should buy without it. Once I've smashed cos of it. True is that if you can brake you will always stop your bike without ABS, and when you have ABS you don't have chance to use your braking skill. So think about this. I wanted to buy my V without ABS but I didn't have choice. By the way the best ABS is produced by Honda (in motorbikes). And about the after-buy ABS there is no chance, cos of fact that there are special modules, electronic chips and different brakes construction. Greets from Poland maybe someday I will come to Greece on my V
the old argument over ABS
I don't like ABS because it interferes with my attempts to salvage a drastic situation, as opposed to I do like ABS because it converts a drastic situation into a less drastic situation because the brakes are more effective.

Would the absence of ABS make me buy another bike..no, but if the price is similar or not that much more than non ABS I'd buy ABS. I've had ABS on a car for nearly 15 years, I doubt I've used ABS more than 10 or 20 times in that period, but when I needed to use it, thank F!!K it was there and working. OK braking in cars is different to bikes. If the ABS makes an accident into a scary moment or a minor incident then who cares about the macho, it interferes with my riding style. I suspect most riders are not truly competant, experienced and practised enough to automatically select the right braking strategy for all situations.

Some will be, for all I know Jacokawa could be. I know I'm not
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-24-2009, 10:55 AM
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To the best of my thinking, about the only time I would want to slide it on the street would be if a Semi trailer somehow materialized out of nowhere perpindicular to me, and I had a chance to slide under it. I think I have a better chance of collecting from that UK internet lottery than I do of encountering such a scenario. I also think just slamming the bars to lock would get me the same result, no need to lock the rear to go down.
Soft stuff can be a different matter, but the V ain't for soft stuff anyway.
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