Engine dies at 8500rpm. ?? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 04:58 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
KLRsys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Texas
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Engine dies at 8500rpm. ??

My motor dies when it get close to 9000rpm, sometimes as early as 8k, other times it makes it to 9k, but never more. It will do this on the road or in neutral standing still. It just flat dies, no stumble, no hiccups, just like the key was turned off. It will start back up without having to turn the key off first.

At first I though it was fuel related, starvation. I've checked the pressure (42psi and it will hold it after the pump is off). I checked flow, I disconnected the line to the throttle bodies, stuck it in a can and let the pump run until it drained the tank (it was about 2/3 full). The volume was good and never let up until the tank was dry.

All my tests were on the road but I finally tried revving it to 9000rpm sitting still in neutral and it still died. This doesn't require much fuel so now I don't think it's fuel related.

The FI light isn't on and there are no stored codes if I run the self diagnostic in dealer mode 2.

The only other issue is fast idle doesn't seem to work right after starting when cold. Don't know if this is related or even normal. Sometimes it will die once after starting, maybe 10-15sec after, but the second time its started, it stays running. Eventually the idle speed starts to pick up, but not right away as you might expect.

Other than the above, it runs fine.

I though it might be the vehicle down circuit because I'd bypassed it with a resistor, so I reinstalled the original sensor sans pendulum, still dies.
I've also bypassed the PARE valve electrics with a resistor.

About the bike - It's a 2009 Verys powertrain (1078 miles) transplanted into a 09 KLR chassis. I used all the engine and electrical components from the Versys except for the headlight, turn signals, brake light and ignition switch. Other than those items, all the electical is connected as it was on the Versys. I've only put about 38mi on it since completing the project and I only rode the Versys around the block once before dismanteling it so I don't know if it was doing this when I bought it.

Any ideas?

Last edited by KLRsys; 04-13-2013 at 10:23 PM.
KLRsys is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 06:48 PM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,957
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tachometer reading is never erratic, even when it cuts off at 8000~9000 rpm? Crankshaft position sensor circuit looks good?

Normal warmed up idle is steady, and set to 1300 rpm?

The used 2009 Versys seemed all normal and not accidented when you got it?

Last edited by invader; 04-13-2013 at 07:00 PM.
invader is offline  
post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
KLRsys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Texas
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tach is smooth at all times.
Idle is smooth after warmup, about 1200rpm.
I haven't tested the crank sensor but I will tonight or in the morning and post results.

Thanks
KLRsys is offline  
 
post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 08:16 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Wiscon
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
I think I'd start looking at the electrical system, connections in particular. Can you verify the tach readings?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by dct73; 04-13-2013 at 08:21 PM.
dct73 is offline  
post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 08:48 PM
Member
 
dxhFZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Sounds almost like an ECU issue, definitely sounds electrical


Sent from Motorcycle.com Free App

Bikes:
65cc Benelli Dynamo
Yamaha ttr-125
Kawasaki KX-125
Yamaha Yz426-f (current)
2010 Kawasaki Versys! (very current and loving it!)
dxhFZ is offline  
post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 10:17 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
KLRsys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Texas
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
Tachometer reading is never erratic, even when it cuts off at 8000~9000 rpm? Crankshaft position sensor circuit looks good?

Normal warmed up idle is steady, and set to 1300 rpm?

The used 2009 Versys seemed all normal and not accidented when you got it?
I measured the resistence of the crankshaft sensor, 442 ohms, service manual says
376
564 is good. I can't measure peak voltage while cranking, don't have a meter with peak hold. The wiring to the sensor is in good shape and it was plugged in firmly.

The used Versys was in excellent condition when I bought it, not a scratch.

BTW, I have two of these Versys powered KLR's, both Versys' were 09 models, so if you ever think it would be beneficial to swap parts for testing I can rob the other bike.

I appreciate the help.
KLRsys is offline  
post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
KLRsys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Texas
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dct73 View Post
I think I'd start looking at the electrical system, connections in particular. Can you verify the tach readings?
I've made sure all the connectors are plugged tight. The tach - I don't have an external tach to test with, but it does read the same rpm/speed as my other KLR/Versys bike so I assume it's accurate.
KLRsys is offline  
post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 10:27 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
KLRsys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Texas
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
I missed another electrical system mod, a Ballistic EVO2 LiFePO4 battery. I've been runnng the same battery in the other bike for a little over a year, no issues.
KLRsys is offline  
post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 11:13 PM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,957
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
So, when you reach that rpm, engine actually stalls instantly, then you have to restart it? Instrumentation remains normally lit when it happens?

Last edited by invader; 04-13-2013 at 11:15 PM.
invader is offline  
post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 11:30 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
KLRsys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Texas
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
So, when you reach that rpm, engine actually stalls instantly, then you have to restart it? Instrumentation remains normally lit when it happens?
It sure seems like its stalling instantly, but I would think at that rpm it would be hard to notice if it sputtered a bit before dying. And yes, then I restart it.
I haven't noticed anything abnormal about the instrumentation when it dies, but I'm not sure what I should be looking for.
I'm going to ride it around some more in the morning, spend a little time on the highway at steady speeds, slowly increasing, see if it will do anything else weird that will give us clues.
KLRsys is offline  
post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2013, 11:51 PM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,957
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
How is your fuel tank/fuel tank vent/fuel pump/fuel pump relay setup?
invader is offline  
post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 12:27 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
KLRsys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Texas
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
The fuel pump housing is off a Suzuki Quad. It's basically a small tank with a tank mounted pump inside. The pump that came in it was identical to the Versys pump so I went ahead and put the Versys pump in there since it was newer. The tank/pump is mounted in the same orientation as it was in the Quad. I also used the external regulator from the quad which is mounted above the throttle bodies. It is rated at 42psi and that's what I'm getting. There are three lines running to the pump. The forward 5/16" line is the feed from the KLR tank, gravity feed. The rear 3/8" line runs to the return line of the regulator. Both these lines just dump into the pump housing body. What is not in the picture (old picture) is about half way up the 3/8" line I've added a tee for a vent line that goes to the back of the KLR fuel tank where I've added a second vent line (pic 2) that runs inside the tank up to near the filler cap (pic 3). In this external part of the vent line is a one way check valve. The idea is to let it vent air out of the fuel pump housing, but not pull any air back in.
The output of the pump goes through the horizontal 5/16" line with the white lettering, up between the throttle bodies to the regulator and on to the fuel rail.
The fuel pump relay is the orginal Versys relay, the same leads are connected to the pump (less the low fuel sensor wire), I just changed the connector to one that fit the Suzuki housing.
The main fuel tank vent itself is unchanged, vents through the other line that exits the back of the tank.

I'm sure you've noticed the throttle bodies are upside down. I can't see how that would affect anything. Do you see any issues with that?





KLRsys is offline  
post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 01:29 AM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,957
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Could you try your other ECU?
invader is offline  
post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
KLRsys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Texas
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
I can try the other ECU, but not quite yet. I want to get a good handle on all the symptoms and be able to reproduce them at will so I'll know exactly what to test for if/when I start swapping parts.
I've learned a bit on this mornings ride. I ran about 30mi on the highway, 70-80mph, did fine. I did some 6th gear WOT roll ons from 4kRpm to 6k, trying to tax the fuel system, did fine.
I ran it up to 9k Rpm in 3rd and this time instead of shifting as soon as it hit 9k, I held it for a while, ran fine. Soon as I pulled in the clutch it died. ?? Tried that three more times, once again at 9k, died, once at 8k, died, once at 7k, didn't die.
At this point I stopped because my rear brake was dragging, the pedal is binding for some reason, doesn't return up all the way. I'm going to fix that now and then go test some more.

Last edited by KLRsys; 04-14-2013 at 12:04 PM.
KLRsys is offline  
post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 01:07 PM
Super Moderator
 
fasteddiecopeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kelowna, BC - summer; Florence, AZ - winter
Posts: 18,792
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)

Ed
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


'08 V AZ, '15 V650LT BC
Ride to D2D 2013, June '13

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Ride to D2D 2015, June '15

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Ride to D2D 2016, June '16

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fasteddiecopeman is offline  
post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
KLRsys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Texas
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
More testing reveals new results. I figured out it's not dying when I pull in the clutch, it's dying when I roll off the throttle which I always do when pulling in the clutch. I ran it on the road up to 9k, held it there for several seconds, rolled off the throttle without pulling in the clutch and it died.
Then I tried it in neutral, sitting still. Run it up to 9k, hold a couple seconds then roll off. If I roll off just a bit and let it get below 7k before rolling off completely it stays running. If at 9k I roll off significantly (probably close to all the way) it dies. I tried this a few times, clutch in, clutch out, same results. I'm stumped. The only significant difference I can see between a fast and slow roll off is manifold vacuum level.
I think I'll try running these same tests on the other bike.
KLRsys is offline  
post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 01:41 PM
Member
 
pbrtcan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Garage
Not sure if the Versys uses a similar system, but...

On my '01 gsxr1000 I had similar symptoms. Rolling off throttle quickly would cause sputtering or the engine would die. Was a faulty TPS. The pivot was sticky and did not return quickly enough. TPS tested fine at the extremes but in use readings were wrong.

Good luck
pbrtcan is offline  
post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
KLRsys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Texas
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbrtcan View Post
Not sure if the Versys uses a similar system, but...

On my '01 gsxr1000 I had similar symptoms. Rolling off throttle quickly would cause sputtering or the engine would die. Was a faulty TPS. The pivot was sticky and did not return quickly enough. TPS tested fine at the extremes but in use readings were wrong.

Good luck
Thanks, I will look at the TPS. I have a spare set of throttle bodies that I can rob for the TPS, should be easy enough to change.
KLRsys is offline  
post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 02:55 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Wiscon
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
I'd go through the whole fuel system in the service manual looking for items that act under your specified conditions. If you don't find anything do the same thing for the ignition system.

Good Luck.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
dct73 is offline  
post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
KLRsys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Texas
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
SUCCESS! I changed the TPS, ran the snot out of it and it didn't die once!

Thanks so much everyone for helping and making me think harder. I was getting pretty frustrated with this and it was great having more brain power to tap into. I should have posted this 2 weeks ago. I also have to thank Invader for one of his older threads. I followed his instructions on adjusting the TPS to richen up the idle/off idle low end and now it start better, stays running, actually "fast" idles correctly and doesn't feel so lean on the bottom.

I'm one happy camper. Thanks again.

KLRsys is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Versys Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome