Before and after dyno sheets ? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-07-2009, 08:34 AM Thread Starter
 
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Before and after dyno sheets ?

Has anyone got before and after dyno sheets of the same bike on similar days before and after pciii, exhaust, air filters etc obviously on the same dyno ?
Seems a lot of people spending on extras and saying it improves the bike but has anyone got the evidence of dyno's before I go and spend myself to hopefully make the engine breathe as it should

Also like to see a dyno of er6 and versys back to back if possible ?
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-09-2009, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by couchcommando View Post
Has anyone got before and after dyno sheets of the same bike on similar days before and after pciii, exhaust, air filters etc obviously on the same dyno ?
Seems a lot of people spending on extras and saying it improves the bike but has anyone got the evidence of dyno's before I go and spend myself to hopefully make the engine breathe as it should

Also like to see a dyno of er6 and versys back to back if possible ?
Nobody seems to be into a before dyno, except me. But alas not on the V.

The big thing with bikes is, if it sounds faster it must be faster. I wouldn't even consider doing a change without a baseline dyno. When I changed the muffler on my Uly I gained 1 HP and lost torque down low. Going by the sound I would have sworn it was a lot better. So much for seat of the pants dyno.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-10-2009, 04:15 PM
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Here's one from Shawn with just a can.



Here's an after from Bob, and what's most noticeable with this one is the absence of torque and HP drop off that you get with the stock set up.






I'll be getting my bike dyno tuned in a few weeks. I will post up the results of course. Sorry not to have the stock graph. Of course I have a full system, and a PC, but I don't remember my stock bike lifting the front in second during hard rollons.

Even better than the power is how darn smooth the thing runs now. So smooth mu mirrors don't vibrate (much) on the highway.

2007 Versys Black, V35 Bags, H&B Bars, Skidmarx Hugger.Fender Ex., Avon Distanzia, Braided Lines, Hella 65W bulbs Arrow Can, DNA Air filter, GIVI tall screen (for winter), PCIII, Baldwin Saddle. **SOLD**

2011 KTM SM-T. Crash bars, E55 Top Box, Fender extender front and rear.

Last edited by Red Herring; 01-10-2009 at 04:26 PM.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-11-2009, 08:07 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
Here's one from Shawn with just a can.
I'll be getting my bike dyno tuned in a few weeks. I will post up the results of course. Sorry not to have the stock graph. Of course I have a full system, and a PC, but I don't remember my stock bike lifting the front in second during hard rollons.

Even better than the power is how darn smooth the thing runs now. So smooth mu mirrors don't vibrate (much) on the highway.
Thanks for those they show a can makes a difference, yours will be interesting to see just a shame you haven't had one done stock.
I know yours now wheelies in 2nd but that may not be more power it may be a hole in the midrange which exagerates the top end, I did say may just to show how mods can be decieving.

I am constantly amazed by people putting exhausts and power commanders on and just riding their bikes without checking they are running right. You could be running massively lean which will make the bike feel sharper so you assume it is better, a few hundred miles later you could have holed pistons ot it could overheat.

In the days before power commanders did people just re-jet their carbs and not check the fuelling on a dyno after ?
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-11-2009, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by couchcommando View Post
Thanks for those they show a can makes a difference, yours will be interesting to see just a shame you haven't had one done stock.
I know yours now wheelies in 2nd but that may not be more power it may be a hole in the midrange which exagerates the top end, I did say may just to show how mods can be decieving.

I am constantly amazed by people putting exhausts and power commanders on and just riding their bikes without checking they are running right. You could be running massively lean which will make the bike feel sharper so you assume it is better, a few hundred miles later you could have holed pistons ot it could overheat.

In the days before power commanders did people just re-jet their carbs and not check the fuelling on a dyno after ?
No hole in my midrange or pistons. Roll ons at 4000 RPM get lift in second. I rarely use all my throttle now.

Without the PC, just header/can/filter I know I lost midrange, I could feel it. The PC has given me back that midrange, and more. The pipe has given me a smoother more flexible bottom end, and a dramatically longer power band. The whole RPM range is incredibly smooth, which might be the nicest improvement of all. I used to be aware that I was spinning 6K and should shift, but I can run 6K without even feeling it. I need to look at the tack on the freeway to make sure I'm in 6th. I can blast along in 5th at 6800RPM very smoothly, no buzzing at all.

Was it worth the extra $1000 I put into it? The bike was very nice to begin with. If I wasn't a constant tinkerer and didn't have the extra cash, then I would say leave it alone, and enjoy. Since I did have the cash, and wanted projects, then Yes... it has been worth it. I am very happy with the results. I like the growl from my can, not too loud, just pleasing. I like that I have to hold on tighter than before, and I like that it is going to keep me off a 1000cc machine for that much longer. Definitely worth it.

A dyno before and after would be nice, but don't have too much faith in dyno readings. they only tell part of the story. They don't actually tell you about driveability. Looking at the stock numbers on paper the Versys would seem like a bit of a wimp compaired to most other 600CC machines, but that's not the case is it? Driveability is not always reflected in the numbers.

2007 Versys Black, V35 Bags, H&B Bars, Skidmarx Hugger.Fender Ex., Avon Distanzia, Braided Lines, Hella 65W bulbs Arrow Can, DNA Air filter, GIVI tall screen (for winter), PCIII, Baldwin Saddle. **SOLD**

2011 KTM SM-T. Crash bars, E55 Top Box, Fender extender front and rear.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-11-2009, 04:34 PM
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No hole in my midrange or pistons. Roll ons at 4000 RPM get lift in second. I rarely use all my throttle now.

Without the PC, just header/can/filter I know I lost midrange, I could feel it. The PC has given me back that midrange, and more. The pipe has given me a smoother more flexible bottom end, and a dramatically longer power band. The whole RPM range is incredibly smooth, which might be the nicest improvement of all. I used to be aware that I was spinning 6K and should shift, but I can run 6K without even feeling it. I need to look at the tack on the freeway to make sure I'm in 6th. I can blast along in 5th at 6800RPM very smoothly, no buzzing at all.

Was it worth the extra $1000 I put into it? The bike was very nice to begin with. If I wasn't a constant tinkerer and didn't have the extra cash, then I would say leave it alone, and enjoy. Since I did have the cash, and wanted projects, then Yes... it has been worth it. I am very happy with the results. I like the growl from my can, not too loud, just pleasing. I like that I have to hold on tighter than before, and I like that it is going to keep me off a 1000cc machine for that much longer. Definitely worth it.

A dyno before and after would be nice, but don't have too much faith in dyno readings. they only tell part of the story. They don't actually tell you about driveability. Looking at the stock numbers on paper the Versys would seem like a bit of a wimp compaired to most other 600CC machines, but that's not the case is it? Driveability is not always reflected in the numbers.

So true, so true!!





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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-12-2009, 08:20 AM
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There is only one problem with that dyno. The torque and HP should be identical at 5252 RPM if it's not then the dyno was done incorrectly. This is not my opinion it is a mathematical fact. Take a look at other dynos you'll see what I mean quick enough. Sorry to blow the bubble off but they should redo that for free.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-12-2009, 12:53 PM
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There is only one problem with that dyno. The torque and HP should be identical at 5252 RPM if it's not then the dyno was done incorrectly. This is not my opinion it is a mathematical fact. Take a look at other dynos you'll see what I mean quick enough. Sorry to blow the bubble off but they should redo that for free.

I guess dynoing a diesel must be all theoretical then? Interesting about the 5252, did some reading up on it after your post. Looks like most dyno's don't get it exactly right.

I wonder if getting the air/fuel ratio right is more important than actual figures?

2007 Versys Black, V35 Bags, H&B Bars, Skidmarx Hugger.Fender Ex., Avon Distanzia, Braided Lines, Hella 65W bulbs Arrow Can, DNA Air filter, GIVI tall screen (for winter), PCIII, Baldwin Saddle. **SOLD**

2011 KTM SM-T. Crash bars, E55 Top Box, Fender extender front and rear.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-12-2009, 01:13 PM
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I guess dynoing a diesel must be all theoretical then? Interesting about the 5252, did some reading up on it after your post. Looks like most dyno's don't get it exactly right.

I wonder if getting the air/fuel ratio right is more important than actual figures?
There is a simple rule to follow when looking at the dynos.

Below 5252 rpm any engine's torque number will always be higher than its horsepower number, and above 5252 rpm any engine's horsepower number will always be higher than its torque number. At 5252 rpm the horsepower and torque numbers will be exactly the same.

If the engine doesn't rev past 5252 as in diesels then the torque will be higher than the HP and the 2 graphs will not cross. If you look at most dynos they do get it correct.

The dyno graph you posted isn't even close I would ask them to do it again and explain why you think they should. Anyone worth their salt would have known it was an invalid dyno run and found out why it was incorrect and should have redone it before you even looked at it.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-12-2009, 01:22 PM
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Here's a good example of what it should look like.

This is from 650R with a full Arrow and PCIII setup.



Now, Dyno Bob's looks like it's on the money. If you compare the two charts, they do intersect at ~5252. Hard to tell on Shawn's as the torque units are not provided. It may well be spot on, but you can't say for sure.

When they do mine, I would like to see as far down the RPM range as possible. Starting at 3000 would be fine, but 2000 would be better. Can you request that?



Good point on the 5252 info!

2007 Versys Black, V35 Bags, H&B Bars, Skidmarx Hugger.Fender Ex., Avon Distanzia, Braided Lines, Hella 65W bulbs Arrow Can, DNA Air filter, GIVI tall screen (for winter), PCIII, Baldwin Saddle. **SOLD**

2011 KTM SM-T. Crash bars, E55 Top Box, Fender extender front and rear.

Last edited by Red Herring; 01-12-2009 at 01:30 PM.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-12-2009, 05:34 PM
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The first dyno has torque in Newton meters, not foot pounds. It crosses higher.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-12-2009, 07:41 PM
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The first dyno has torque in Newton meters, not foot pounds. It crosses higher.
Oops...right you are! thanks for the correction!

Good info all this. When I have mine done, I'll know better what to look for.

2007 Versys Black, V35 Bags, H&B Bars, Skidmarx Hugger.Fender Ex., Avon Distanzia, Braided Lines, Hella 65W bulbs Arrow Can, DNA Air filter, GIVI tall screen (for winter), PCIII, Baldwin Saddle. **SOLD**

2011 KTM SM-T. Crash bars, E55 Top Box, Fender extender front and rear.

Last edited by Red Herring; 01-12-2009 at 07:47 PM.
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