how to get to stator connector? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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how to get to stator connector?

Sometimes I think engineers are evil and design for long shop work to bill more hours...

I couldn't get to the stator connector on left side as per the manual.
Dunno what child-like hand are required but my XXL hands won't get there.

But can I test the stator (ohms and voltage) by unplugging the super easy access rectifier under the right middle fairing? I'm trying to read the diagram and one phase is connected to some other circuit and I haven't quite taken the time to figure what for or if it would be disrupting or misleading.

I figure I can't be the only one to try, so, I'm being lazy and asking you guys what's your thought and experience with recifier end testing.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dddd View Post
Sometimes I think engineers are evil and design for long shop work to bill more hours...

I couldn't get to the stator connector on left side as per the manual.
Dunno what child-like hand are required but my XXL hands won't get there.

But can I test the stator (ohms and voltage) by unplugging the super easy access rectifier under the right middle fairing? I'm trying to read the diagram and one phase is connected to some other circuit and I haven't quite taken the time to figure what for or if it would be disrupting or misleading.

I figure I can't be the only one to try, so, I'm being lazy and asking you guys what's your thought and experience with recifier end testing.
You have been a member since Jan. 2016 ---and never seen a post by me about stator testing--really Judging by your post you have a 2015 or newer, don't worry about the internal circuit going to the headlight relay, it is inactive if unplugged at the regulator. Follow my 3 phase testing, the only foolproof and accurate way is using the idle screw and measuring volts AC. Using the plug at the regulator, do not measure VAC to ground, the headlight relay has a diode connected to one phase, this will give a false reading between phases to ground. The only valid test is between phases. I do question why you would go to the trouble of checking at the regulator, as the plastic needs to be removed , why not do it at the stator side ?

https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...on-thread.html
https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...placement.html
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 06:52 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by onewizard View Post
You have been a member since Jan. 2016 ---and never seen a post by me about stator testing--really Judging by your post you have a 2015 or newer, don't worry about the internal circuit going to the headlight relay, it is inactive if unplugged at the regulator. Follow my 3 phase testing, the only foolproof and accurate way is using the idle screw and measuring volts AC. Using the plug at the regulator, do not measure VAC to ground, the headlight relay has a diode connected to one phase, this will give a false reading between phases to ground. The only valid test is between phases. I do question why you would go to the trouble of checking at the regulator, as the plastic needs to be removed , why not do it at the stator side ?

https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...on-thread.html
https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...placement.html
You may find that funny, but perhaps there is a misunderstanding.
I wasn't interested in that back then.
I know how to test it.
More recently I did read many of your posts too, but forgive me if I can't recall your advice on accessing the connector.

My question is about the connector which, either I really didn't find, or that is truly deeply hidden under the tank where my xxl hand can't reach. I recall a youtube clip from a guy saying it's a bitch. I've seen a few gen2 clips and it seems rather different and much easier than gen3. I'll try again this winter. (which starts tonight apparently...)

I would likely go for the rectifier side connector, despite not testing under load. I just want a quick by-the-book test, given I just changed my battery.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by dddd View Post
You may find that funny, but perhaps there is a misunderstanding.
I wasn't interested in that back then.
I know how to test it.
More recently I did read many of your posts too, but forgive me if I can't recall your advice on accessing the connector.

My question is about the connector which, either I really didn't find, or that is truly deeply hidden under the tank where my xxl hand can't reach. I recall a youtube clip from a guy saying it's a bitch. I've seen a few gen2 clips and it seems rather different and much easier than gen3. I'll try again this winter. (which starts tonight apparently...)

I would likely go for the rectifier side connector, despite not testing under load. I just want a quick by-the-book test, given I just changed my battery.
Fairly easy to find, left side is a drain hose tucked in behind the speed sensor, the stator wire is grouped with that, follow that up, just where the frame has a cross member is the connector, I found my connector wiring going behind the fuel line from the tank ( which makes it too short to pull out, moving in front of fuel line makes a difference). You need to take the cover off that accesses the front sprocket, you will then see the connector at the top rear of that cover.
When I did my valve shim I relocated the 3 phase wire to the front of the fuel line. I would take a photo, except I have too much in front of my bike lift to get at it.And I am still hoping for a day above 8'C for a final ride.

Last edited by onewizard; 11-11-2019 at 11:07 AM.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 01:32 PM
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...I am still hoping for a day above 8'C for a final ride....
The forecast for HERE is "Hi" of 83F/ 28C.

Oh - I guess you were referring to SOMEWHERE IN THE GREAT WHITE NORTH, so pardon my response....

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 08:39 PM
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The forecast for HERE is "Hi" of 83F/ 28C.

Oh - I guess you were referring to SOMEWHERE IN THE GREAT WHITE NORTH, so pardon my response....

24F here, and 1st snow of the season, but our new puppy absolutely loves it! Dumb little mutt!!
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 10:58 PM
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Thumbs up dumb little mutt

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24F here, and 1st snow of the season, but our new puppy absolutely loves it! Dumb little mutt!!
Lives inside as long as it chooses (in the warmest spot)
Fed for nothing else but chewing on your heart (and shoes)
Demands & receives belly rubs from all visitors (they only came for the mutt any way)
Only real job is to make you smile
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 12:34 PM
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Lives inside as long as it chooses (in the warmest spot)
Fed for nothing else but chewing on your heart (and shoes)
Demands & receives belly rubs from all visitors (they only came for the mutt any way)
Only real job is to make you smile

The pup has been laying in the sun by the patio door. lol Going out in snow for her first time yesterday was hilarious!! This is our 4th Yorkie. We lasted a month after the last one passed,(RIP Bogey) I said NO MORE DOGS, but wifey has all the voting power!! All the others died of old age, so have had a Yorkie for decades! Yappy little things, and the Cat isn't impressed, but Mama is happy.

Last edited by dmer; 11-12-2019 at 12:37 PM.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-20-2019, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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Just to follow up on the original question:

Despite locating and following the stator cable on left side, it is truly impossible for my hand to even get close to touching the connector much less disconnect it.

I went with the rectifier-end disconnect (right side) to test the stator and that method worked well.

I read the ac voltage and ohms within the ball park. It's sad my multimeter is 0.1ohms precision, but that was enough to detect the 0.2 ohms change on all 3 phases, compared to shorting the MM probes.

Success.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2019, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dddd View Post
Just to follow up on the original question:

Despite locating and following the stator cable on left side, it is truly impossible for my hand to even get close to touching the connector much less disconnect it.

I went with the rectifier-end disconnect (right side) to test the stator and that method worked well.

I read the ac voltage and ohms within the ball park. It's sad my multimeter is 0.1ohms precision, but that was enough to detect the 0.2 ohms change on all 3 phases, compared to shorting the MM probes.

Success.
My only comment is that using a ohmmeter for testing a stator winding with the exception of checking to ground, is about the crudest method possible.Unfortunately Kawasaki uses static test methods, very few people have access to a meter that can measure low ohms. I am posting this for the benefit of members reading this thread and decide the manual test method is the best way, I will explain why this is both time consuming and a waste of time unless your stator isn't outputting any power, which likely will be a burnt stator.Some technical data from this thread:

https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...ator+rewinding

"Copied one of my former posts, easier than the links
the winding dope for both a Y and a Delta

Delta which is what OEM is;
44 turns per pole of 18 gauge magnet wire per pole, I would try and get class H---( OEM looks like a class C or F)

length of 18 gauge is 96" per pole, 576" per phase plus 20"= 596" and 1788" total to rewind delta = 150 feet approx.of copper in OEm

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Y connected
15 gauge magnet wire, 25 turns per pole= 56" X 6 poles =332" plus 20= 352" or 29.5 feet per phase or approx. 90 feet of 15 gauge connected Y to do a complete rewind

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
as you can see, 60 feet less to wind Y and 450 total turns on Y as opposed to 792 turns on delta-------advantages and disadvantages for each, one advantage of Y is less insulation----as a example if I subtract 25 from 44 = 19 X .004 = .076 inches, I gain roughly the thickness of two 18 gauge wires with less turns, the .004 is the insulation ( .002 on each side);

I am posting this more for interest than anything, this is one very difficult thing to do, especially if you have large fingers, not that it matters as you will need to come up with some sort of winding tool similar to a plastic straw.

Revision 2017, as all the aftermarket China stators are Y connected , use the reduced turns and the same 18 gauge wire, they do put out a full 336 watts, however they do eventually burn up as the wire gauge should be double that of the delta. Since my recommendation is to increase the wire size, a compromise is to use 16 gauge."


Here are some facts, 18 gauge magnet wire is 6.385 ohms per 1000 feet
Each phase is about 50 feet or 0.006385 ohms X 50 Ft= 0.319 ohms.
Be aware using a ohm meter for example checking A to B phase, be aware that phase B to C is technically in series with phase C to A, this in turn is in parallel with our testing A to B.

Consider that each phase has six poles of 44 turns or 264 turns per phase, so the resistance per turn is 0.001209280303 ohms.
Consider most top end meters have a REL setting for zeroing the meter leads which typically can be 0.1 ohms. Consider the resistance of your meter leads is equivalent to 82 turns of 18 gauge wire
Using the 2000 RPM volts AC test method will detect a 3 turn short. I will challenge any engineer to find a 50 turn short using a ohmmeter. You would be better off using your nose and smell the oil for burnt stator. For those that pull it apart without testing using the AC volts and 2000 RPM, you need to use a LCR meter .
The moral of the story is that I developed this test method using a fixed RPM @ 2000 RPM and a meter that can read volts AC, be aware a meter that costs $30 will give a extremely accurate picture of your stators health, keep in mind we don't care if it is plus or minus 5 VAC from a calibrated meter, because we are looking at finding identical volts AC on all 3 phases.

Last edited by onewizard; 11-21-2019 at 01:15 AM.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2019, 06:48 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks.
That's all. :-)

I mean, I tested the AC voltage, but mostly for presence in the 41-62V range.
I'm curious to rerun the test for detecting unbalanced phases like suggested.

I'm not setup to proxy the connector to test under load yet; I'd have to examine the connector closer for possible needle probing its back side.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2019, 12:30 PM
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Thanks.
That's all. :-)

I mean, I tested the AC voltage, but mostly for presence in the 41-62V range.
I'm curious to rerun the test for detecting unbalanced phases like suggested.

I'm not setup to proxy the connector to test under load yet; I'd have to examine the connector closer for possible needle probing its back side.
I am not sure what you mean by testing under load. I have photos of testing both the CompuFire and Polaris 4016868 under load, I very much doubt that even 1% of the membership has the tools to do this. I have several Hall Effect current probes, since the regulator can output 23 amp DC, I don't know of any meter available on the market that can measure that high of a current, several clamp meters are now made that measure both AC and DC amps, your average electrician is not going to have one of these, and for sure your average motorcycle enthusiast won't. It is pointless trying to measure the AC volts going into the Shunt regulator, as forward resistance and shunt switching will cause imbalances . I do have a test for Series regulators which contradicts what I just said, and it's sole purpose was to verify regulator condition.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-21-2019, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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I am not sure what you mean by testing under load. I have photos of testing both the CompuFire and Polaris 4016868 under load, I very much doubt that even 1% of the membership has the tools to do this. I have several Hall Effect current probes, since the regulator can output 23 amp DC, I don't know of any meter available on the market that can measure that high of a current, several clamp meters are now made that measure both AC and DC amps, your average electrician is not going to have one of these, and for sure your average motorcycle enthusiast won't. It is pointless trying to measure the AC volts going into the Shunt regulator, as forward resistance and shunt switching will cause imbalances . I do have a test for Series regulators which contradicts what I just said, and it's sole purpose was to verify regulator condition.
Yeah, I didn't mean current measure, just voltage.
I agree we should expect fairly even voltage when disconnected, and that resistence testing is mostly for ruling out open/short, although 0.2 +/-0.1 is still measurable.

After that only, I would test when connected.

In light of what you are saying (assuming those same 3 phases plugged in rectifier show voltage discrepancies from shunt switching), I would worry if the regulator would tax only the same phase or two, though.

My crude reasoning wonders how could the RMS voltage be lower on a phase than on others (after demonstrating they are equal in potential and resistance) without that phase being beaten up more than the others. I can't believe regulators would be so poorly designed..
Oh well.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-22-2019, 12:36 PM
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Stator Failure / Root Cause / Shunt Regulator

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Originally Posted by dddd View Post
Yeah, I didn't mean current measure, just voltage.
I agree we should expect fairly even voltage when disconnected, and that resistence testing is mostly for ruling out open/short, although 0.2 +/-0.1 is still measurable.

After that only, I would test when connected.

In light of what you are saying (assuming those same 3 phases plugged in rectifier show voltage discrepancies from shunt switching), I would worry if the regulator would tax only the same phase or two, though.

My crude reasoning wonders how could the RMS voltage be lower on a phase than on others (after demonstrating they are equal in potential and resistance) without that phase being beaten up more than the others. I can't believe regulators would be so poorly designed..
Oh well.
To sum it up, my title, way down on the list is single phase condition caused by the stator plug, this last one can damage both Shunt and Series regulators.
From what I can tell , Kawasaki is switching to series regulators, still waiting for someone with a V1000 , 2016 or better that owns a multimeter and is willing to do some testing and photos.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-22-2019, 06:53 PM Thread Starter
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...From what I can tell , Kawasaki is switching to series regulators
I'm sure you will bring us the good news (particularly if connector compatible)!
keep it up!
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