shoddy cam cap bolts - Kawasaki Versys Forum
 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
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shoddy cam cap bolts

While torquing the cam cap bolts using a decent torque wrence it just did not feel right and I was reluctant to pull to full 105 in/lbs torque. You know the feeling if you have ever stripped or stretched a bolt and I left them at 95 in/lbs

My buddy was doing another one today and had the same imminent failure feeling and removed the bolt for a better look. When removed the threaded portion literally fell off in his hand

Both bikes are 2011 models, made in Thailand

The manual does not say anything about these being 1 time only use bolts. the specified torque figure is a bit high for a 6mm bolt and I wonder if they are being stressed in their elastic range?

Anyone else experience this?
Are these one use bolts?
Do you see any problem in replacing the bolts with a high tensile allen head bolt?
Just buy new bolts every time?
Or just a ****ty Thai bolt?
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 09:12 PM
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As you say....Thai Bolts....get a replacement and be with it. Lucky me I got a Japan Build 2009 model and dont have to put up with those Thai Made product. Kawa has done some damage in cutting cost / gaining market but also picked up a lot of complaints lately. 08/09 model were the best.

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 09:23 PM
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You followed the specified tightening sequence? That does sound a bit high for 6mm bolts. Service manual does recommend 52-69 in-lbs for 6mm general fasteners... Oil on the threads also causes over-tightening with torque wrench. I always do it by hand, by feel and experience. I only use a 1/2" drive Snap-On dial gauge torque wrench for large high torque bolts.
You may possibly have lower quality Thai or Chinese bolts. My 2007 is made in Japan... High tensile Allen head or other would be fine.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 09:26 PM
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Can you get photos of the offending bolts? What markings are on the head?
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 01:52 AM Thread Starter
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Yes the proper sequence was followed and bolts were oily from the disassembly process.

Given that all Versys are now made in Thailand, I am intrested if others have had this problem. Asking the local spanner monkeys is of little use as they do not use a torque wrench, and I have my doubts about the Dealer competence level as well.

Will get some pics of the offending bolt(s) from my Buddy and post

Last edited by Hoghead; 01-30-2013 at 01:56 AM.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 06:15 AM
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Hoghead,

I sheared off two cam cap bolts (I'm a slow learner), because I was unfamiliar with the torque wrench I was using. Those are 6mm bolts too, same 106 in./lbs. I have a little 1/4" drive torque wrench now. It's about 9" long and you can feel a lot better with that tool. The first torque wrench I was using was a 1/2" drive, quite a long handle, and I think it was just too beefy a tool to use on these little bolts. There was no perceived effort required to just spin those bolts in half.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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I have the proper 1/4 drive torque wrence and know how to use it.

My buddy sent a pic to me as I am in the Philippines now but did not send the pic of the bolt head. all it shows is a bolt broken at the thread to shank connection:

He also reports:
Here's 2 pics of the bolt. It was still hanging on by a whisker when it came out but fell in to 2 pieces in my hand. It's a bit dirty from already being in the bin !
Yes 106 inch/lbs 12nm is the torque in the book.
Some of the other bolts showed signs of stretching on the last four or five threads from the head end near where this one gave up.
I bought black high tensile allen head bolts and clamped one in the vice.
I used the new torque wrench (bought from Nana screw) and the old one to statically wind one up to 16nm (146.6 in/lbs). No twisting no problem.
Put them in with lock washers which did up with no fuss at all.

Note the comment about several of the other bolts showing signs of stretching. this is what I felt on my bike at 95 in/lbs and now I am thinking of going back in and replacing the bolts
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoghead View Post
While torquing the cam cap bolts using a decent torque wrence it just did not feel right and I was reluctant to pull to full 105 in/lbs torque. You know the feeling if you have ever stripped or stretched a bolt and I left them at 95 in/lbs

My buddy was doing another one today and had the same imminent failure feeling and removed the bolt for a better look. When removed the threaded portion literally fell off in his hand

Both bikes are 2011 models, made in Thailand

The manual does not say anything about these being 1 time only use bolts. the specified torque figure is a bit high for a 6mm bolt and I wonder if they are being stressed in their elastic range?

Anyone else experience this?
Are these one use bolts?
Do you see any problem in replacing the bolts with a high tensile allen head bolt?
Just buy new bolts every time?
Or just a ****ty Thai bolt?
My manual specifies 106 "/# (inch/pounds) torque. I always torque them equally to about 60, then 80, then 106 "/#, and SO FAR I've not had a problem. I DO use a 1/4" torque wrench rather that a 3/8 (or, HEAVEN FORBID - a 1/2"...!), as 106 "/# is ONLY just under 9 '/#, and my 3/8 and 1/2 torque wrenches don't even go THAT LOW, and I was always taught that you try to use one somewhere OTHER than either end of its range.

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-31-2013, 06:43 PM Thread Starter
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Tim confirms that there are no markings on the heads of the bolts

It now is beginning to sound like shoddy bolts
funny that no one else had had this problem

Not sure how valid it is, but I do not like to use a torque wrence in the bottom 10% of its range, and hold it lightly, pushing on the very end of the handle.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-31-2013, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoghead View Post
...Not sure how valid it is, but I do not like to use a torque wrence in the bottom 10% of its range, and hold it lightly, pushing on the very end of the handle.
Just checked my 1/4" torque wrench (Harbor Freight). It has a range of 20-200 inch pounds, so 106"/# is pretty much in the middle.

My 3/8 STARTS at 5'/#, so 9'/# isn't much above that (and TOO close for comfort to my way of thinking...).

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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 03:36 AM
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You be surprised how inaccurate some of the cheaper 1/4 drive torque wrenches are. I have spent the last 25 years rebuilding automatic transmissions in my own shop. Torque wrenches are a must in this industry. In our rebuilding room I had a snap on, a Brittool and a couple of warren and browns. These were calibrated about every third year. I bought a cheaper wrench, still a good tool for workshop use only. This was nearly 10 inlb heavy. Exchanged it until we got one that was the same as our other units. Careful "feel" is required when using small wrenches as over torquing is easy to do.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 03:50 AM
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I forgot to add that the majority of 6mm bolts were torqued to 100in lb. Most of our transmission were Japanese, European or American. Very rarely did we encounter a soft bolt.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 11:10 AM
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Here's a picture of the bolts on my '09. As you can see there are NO markings on them.
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwitourer View Post
You be surprised how inaccurate some of the cheaper 1/4 drive torque wrenches are. I have spent the last 25 years rebuilding automatic transmissions in my own shop. Torque wrenches are a must in this industry. In our rebuilding room I had a snap on, a Brittool and a couple of warren and browns. These were calibrated about every third year. I bought a cheaper wrench, still a good tool for workshop use only. This was nearly 10 inlb heavy. Exchanged it until we got one that was the same as our other units. Careful "feel" is required when using small wrenches as over torquing is easy to do.
SOMEWHERE I read a report that the Harbor Freight torque wrenches are one of the MORE accurate brands. (I ALSO own THREE Snap-On torque wrenches - one in 1/2", two in 3/8".)

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