valve clearance and valve timing markings - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-18-2019, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
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valve clearance and valve timing markings

I am in the middle of my first ever valve check/adjustment job on my 2015 V 650. I have read through the material on the forum a few times, but still need a few clarifications.

My question is on the valve clearance position. There are 4 positions on the crankshaft as seen from the Inspection Cap: 1|T (facedown 1), 1/T, 2|T (facedown 2), 2/T. Manual asks to measure valves at TDC compression stroke for each cylinder and when in this position the cam lobes will be turned away from each other. I am seeing that the lobes will be in this position for cylinder-1 at 1/T and for cylinder-2 at 2/T, every 2 rotations of the shaft. This is consistent with the service manual, but I have read on the forum about a mistake in the manual. So I wanted to check with you, do you agree that 1/T and 2/T are appropriate for valve clearance? Picture 1 shows my cam lobes at cylinder-1 at 1/T and Picture 2 shows for cylinder-2 at 2/T.

When it comes to valve adjustments and camshaft removal, we have to be in 2|T (facedown 2 as seen from inspection cap). This is the only position where IN and EX markings align with the crankcase and are at opposite ends (Picture-3).

Also, if my understanding is correct, I should be able to remove cam caps and the tensioner and should be able to life the camshaft? No need to remove the cams completely?
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File Type: jpg camlobes_1:T.jpg (74.9 KB, 66 views)
File Type: jpg camlobes_2:T.jpg (62.2 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg camtiming_2|T.jpg (80.8 KB, 63 views)
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 07:34 AM
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I am in the middle of my first ever valve check/adjustment job on my 2015 V 650. I have read through the material on the forum a few times, but still need a few clarifications.

My question is on the valve clearance position. There are 4 positions on the crankshaft as seen from the Inspection Cap: 1|T (facedown 1), 1/T, 2|T (facedown 2), 2/T. Manual asks to measure valves at TDC compression stroke for each cylinder and when in this position the cam lobes will be turned away from each other. I am seeing that the lobes will be in this position for cylinder-1 at 1/T and for cylinder-2 at 2/T, every 2 rotations of the shaft. This is consistent with the service manual, but I have read on the forum about a mistake in the manual. So I wanted to check with you, do you agree that 1/T and 2/T are appropriate for valve clearance? Picture 1 shows my cam lobes at cylinder-1 at 1/T and Picture 2 shows for cylinder-2 at 2/T.

When it comes to valve adjustments and camshaft removal, we have to be in 2|T (facedown 2 as seen from inspection cap). This is the only position where IN and EX markings align with the crankcase and are at opposite ends (Picture-3).

Also, if my understanding is correct, I should be able to remove cam caps and the tensioner and should be able to life the camshaft? No need to remove the cams completely?
You have a good photo, 2 over T is the position to leave the crankshaft ( there is also a 2/T and a 1/T , both incorrect for this job , read my post as I listed the pages with the mistakes for the 2015 Service manual) in while doing the valve shim, I used a breaker bar to hold it in place.Have you followed my How To Post? The mistake is in the photos of the manual , I describe it in my thread;
https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...onewizard.html


Recent post;
https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...ming-help.html
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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"cams turned away from each other"

Hi onewizard, I have read through your post a couple of times, I could not have come this far without it

In your post pictures at ( https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...ml#post1428410 ) you have stated 1|T (not 1 over T) as the valve clearance position for cylinder-1 and "2 over T" (not 2|T) as the valve clearance checking position for cylinder-2. When in "2 over T" the cam lobes are NOT turned away from each other like the manual shows in the 2nd picture on page 2-26. However, for cylinder-1 I do see 1|T position properly aligning the camlobes away from each other.

So my question are the camlobes not required to be turned away from each other (as in the picture on page 2-26) for cylinder-2?

Another question, if 1|T is the TDC for cylinder-1 (as noted by you and as well as manual), shouldn't the TDC for cylinder-2 be 180 degrees away, which is 2|T (not 2 over T) on rotor and this would be consistent with the manual page on 2-26 and also in this position I am seeing camlobes turned away from each other.

One more thing, I am looking at the position from the timing inspection cap, I have not removed the clutch cover.

I am sorry, i know that this topic has been discussed quite a bit here, but as a noob I am not able to reconcile some the differences from the manual and my understanding so far.
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 03:38 PM
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...Also, if my understanding is correct, I should be able to remove cam caps and the tensioner and should be able to life the camshaft? No need to remove the cams completely?
Yes. I've NEVER removed my cams during the [MANY] valve checks I've done, and several times I just set the 'lobes' to where they face OUTBOARD as in your pics, and went from there.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 05:23 PM
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Hi onewizard, I have read through your post a couple of times, I could not have come this far without it

In your post pictures at ( https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...ml#post1428410 ) you have stated 1|T (not 1 over T) as the valve clearance position for cylinder-1 and "2 over T" (not 2|T) as the valve clearance checking position for cylinder-2. When in "2 over T" the cam lobes are NOT turned away from each other like the manual shows in the 2nd picture on page 2-26. However, for cylinder-1 I do see 1|T position properly aligning the camlobes away from each other.

So my question are the camlobes not required to be turned away from each other (as in the picture on page 2-26) for cylinder-2?

Another question, if 1|T is the TDC for cylinder-1 (as noted by you and as well as manual), shouldn't the TDC for cylinder-2 be 180 degrees away, which is 2|T (not 2 over T) on rotor and this would be consistent with the manual page on 2-26 and also in this position I am seeing camlobes turned away from each other.

One more thing, I am looking at the position from the timing inspection cap, I have not removed the clutch cover.

I am sorry, i know that this topic has been discussed quite a bit here, but as a noob I am not able to reconcile some the differences from the manual and my understanding so far.
You are correct and I edited my post #8 and added clarification. One of the problems is there is no way of differentiating between 2/T back slash T and 2 over T in a text document. I confused the positions for go no go measuring with the final resting position of 2 over T, with the timing marks on the cams shown on page 5-22


So it should be a lot clearer now. Any other questions feel free to ask, as there may be others wondering the same thing. FYI I had to go out in the garage and open my manual as I made notes to myself.
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 06:53 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks!

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You are correct and I edited my post #8 and added clarification. One of the problems is there is no way of differentiating between 2/T back slash T and 2 over T in a text document. I confused the positions for go no go measuring with the final resting position of 2 over T, with the timing marks on the cams shown on page 5-22


So it should be a lot clearer now. Any other questions feel free to ask, as there may be others wondering the same thing. FYI I had to go out in the garage and open my manual as I made notes to myself.
Thanks for confirming! I had decided not to touch the bike till this was clear, this is a huge relief I will get back to the bike later tonight. I had measured the valves and they all seem on the tighter side, but still pass as in-spec. But I will adjust them to the higher end.

Couple of more questions:
How much resistance should I feel when using feeler gauges?

Is it required to use Molybdenum disulfide oil on the cams like the manual wants it?
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 08:14 PM
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How much resistance should I feel when using feeler gauges?

Is it required to use Molybdenum disulfide oil on the cams like the manual wants it?
Just the right amount of resistance is what you should feel... It should rub snuggly in between cam lobe and lifter, and it'll make that distinctive "PRUPRUP!" rubbing sound telling you it's just right.

No... I use a plastic spoon to apply some engine oil upon reassembly.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCX View Post
I am in the middle of my first ever valve check/adjustment job on my 2015 V 650. I have read through the material on the forum a few times, but still need a few clarifications.

My question is on the valve clearance position. There are 4 positions on the crankshaft as seen from the Inspection Cap: 1|T (facedown 1), 1/T, 2|T (facedown 2), 2/T. Manual asks to measure valves at TDC compression stroke for each cylinder and when in this position the cam lobes will be turned away from each other. I am seeing that the lobes will be in this position for cylinder-1 at 1/T and for cylinder-2 at 2/T, every 2 rotations of the shaft. This is consistent with the service manual, but I have read on the forum about a mistake in the manual. So I wanted to check with you, do you agree that 1/T and 2/T are appropriate for valve clearance? Picture 1 shows my cam lobes at cylinder-1 at 1/T and Picture 2 shows for cylinder-2 at 2/T.

When it comes to valve adjustments and camshaft removal, we have to be in 2|T (facedown 2 as seen from inspection cap). This is the only position where IN and EX markings align with the crankcase and are at opposite ends (Picture-3).

Also, if my understanding is correct, I should be able to remove cam caps and the tensioner and should be able to life the camshaft? No need to remove the cams completely?
Any part of the flat side of the cam should work for measuring clearance. Put the pointy part of the cam facing away from the valve you are measuring.

The marks will be necessary though for making sure your cam chain is in the correct position when putting things back together.

When taking things apart keep notes and take pictures. Also put bolts in a muffin pan or similar collection device to keep them organized. If you need to keep the head off the engine while ordering shims cover it with a lint free cloth to prevent entry of dirt, dust and grim.

I used 8 numbered zip lock sandwich bags for each shim I removed so I could relate each bag to my notes such as it's measured thickness and where it was removed from.

Make sure you have an accurate caliper for measuring thickness of shims and measure multiple times to ensure you are getting repeatable measurements.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-20-2019, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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Air suction valve looks

Manual asks to inspect air suction valve for any cracks, scratches.. Mine seem discolored but no cracks. The 2 pictures are the front and the back, Do you see any problems with them?
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-20-2019, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCX View Post
...
How much resistance should I feel when using feeler gauges?

Is it required to use Molybdenum disulfide oil on the cams like the manual wants it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
Just the right amount of resistance is what you should feel... It should rub snuggly in between cam lobe and lifter, and it'll make that distinctive "PRUPRUP!" rubbing sound telling you it's just right.

No... I use a plastic spoon to apply some engine oil upon reassembly.
I do what invader says, and I just drip some motor oil onto each cam lobe (M1 15w-50) before I "button things up".

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Manual asks to inspect air suction valve for any cracks, scratches.. Mine seem discolored but no cracks. The 2 pictures are the front and the back, Do you see any problems with them?
Nope.
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-20-2019, 06:26 PM
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Manual asks to inspect air suction valve for any cracks, scratches.. Mine seem discolored but no cracks. The 2 pictures are the front and the back, Do you see any problems with them?
Valve cover bolt o-ring appears to have multiple cracks.

Air suction reed valve assembly looks okay. I just don't like how dirty they are. Besides, your reed valves are hidden behind their limiter plates. You really oughta remove the 2 screws to take it apart to inspect, and also clean it all out to ensure the reed valves seal properly. It shouldn't be so carboned up on the clean air side (top)... Mine has always been sealed off and removed altogether.

Kawasaki part # 92055-0195 RING-O,HEAD COVER BOLT

https://www.partshark.com/oemparts/a...der-head-cover
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Last edited by invader; 02-20-2019 at 09:00 PM.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-22-2019, 03:04 AM Thread Starter
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valve gaskets

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Valve cover bolt o-ring appears to have multiple cracks.
Thanks for noticing this. I looked up close and they are more like scratches (not end to end cracks). Some how the picture seems to show them more like cracks. But it does appear like the gaskets may require changing. The gaskets and the washer are sticking very tightly to the valve cover surface. Should I just use screw driver to take it out?

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Air suction reed valve assembly looks okay. I just don't like how dirty they are. Besides, your reed valves are hidden behind their limiter plates. You really oughta remove the 2 screws to take it apart to inspect, and also clean it all out to ensure the reed valves seal properly.
How do you recommend cleaning the reed valves? May be spray some WD-40 and wipe it clean?
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-22-2019, 03:17 AM
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Yes, and yes.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-24-2019, 01:36 AM Thread Starter
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Sanding instructions

I am trying to sand the valve shims using 300 grit sandpaper. How long to does it take sand a shim off by, say 0.05 mm? I am using a wooden piece with a drilled hole like onewizard had in his instructions, but are there any other advice to keep in mind?
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-24-2019, 09:30 AM
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I am trying to sand the valve shims using 300 grit sandpaper. How long to does it take sand a shim off by, say 0.05 mm? I am using a wooden piece with a drilled hole like onewizard had in his instructions, but are there any other advice to keep in mind?
I used 200 to start and 400 to finish, about 5 minutes a shim, which includes measuring, after about the 3rd you get a idea how long between measurements.
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-24-2019, 01:52 PM
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When I sand my shims, I have a piece of ice handy so that I can get the heat out of the shim (that I JUST put in during sanding it) so my measurement is correct.
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-24-2019, 03:18 PM
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When I sand my shims, I have a piece of ice handy so that I can get the heat out of the shim (that I JUST put in during sanding it) so my measurement is correct.
Two things, I did my valve shim in the winter in my garage, which is cool to cold. Second, I don't apply that much effort to get the job done, obviously all the riding Eddie does has increased his upper body strength to the point the shims get smokin hot while sanding by him. Shims should be measured at what is deemed to be ambient temperature 20'C . Also make sure there is no oil on the shims while sanding or measuring, that includes the initial measurement when removed. Remember, the Go No Go feeler gauges used for measurement should also be compared to your micrometer before you start, nothing like using a feeler gauge that says your valve is tight, remove amount calculated then find out your feeler gauge is off.

Also you need a 4 decimal place micrometer.
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 03:10 PM
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Glen - in the Okanagan - it gets pretty HOT in riding season....
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-28-2019, 12:54 AM Thread Starter
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Vacuum Synchronization

I have made the valve adjustment and I am waiting for the carbtune to arrive in mail. I have the california model 2015 versys and vacuum hoses are connected as shown in the picture. From what I understand, I need to do the following, can you please confirm or correct these steps:

1. I need to connect the 2 vacuum hoses (in the picture they are connected to each other at the T) to the 2 channels of the carbtune.
2. Plug the air switching valve
3. Plug air cleaner house fitting
4. Install air cleaner housing
5. Install fuel tank using an extension and do the sync at the 1300 rpm idle speed
6. Adjust the 2 bypass screws till vaccum is in sync
7. Highly accurate tachometer is not needed?

Onewizard had suggested extending and pulling the hoses out and securing them so that future vac sync can be done with everything in place. Does this still apply to California model
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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-28-2019, 08:57 AM
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Two Comments:
Now I see why the dealer charges so much for valve shim adjustment.

Reed valves? Obviously I haven't checked mine yet but I never knew we had reed valves. Should I be mixing castor bean oil in my tank?
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