Brake fluid, new brake lines. - Kawasaki Versys Forum
 8Likes
  • 4 Post By hawkerjet
  • 1 Post By _Big_Mac_
  • 1 Post By _Big_Mac_
  • 1 Post By _Big_Mac_
  • 1 Post By Fastoman
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Fly-Sig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 919
Brake fluid, new brake lines.

Well the manual says replace the brake lines at 3 years, so here we are.

1) How much brake fluid will be needed to completely refresh both front and rear systems? Basically what size do I buy to avoid having to go back to the store again, but not so huge most of it gets wasted.

2) Are the lines the same for 2015 as 2009? HEL sells a set listed as 2009+, will that fit the 2015? HEL Brake Lines For Kawasaki Versys (2009-)

3) Is there any substantive differences between major brands such as HEL, Galfer, or Spiegler?

4) Use a vacuum bleeder (like the Actron), or one of the cheaper bleeder kits?

Last edited by Fly-Sig; 01-05-2019 at 10:08 AM.
Fly-Sig is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 09:44 AM
Member
 
hawkerjet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Fresno aka Shake & Bake California
Posts: 889
3 Years seems way too soon to me. My 2015 has all original brake lines and there is not a hint of degradation upon inspection.

Keep in mind that lawyers were probably involved in the decision to go with 3 years as an interval. The o'l CYA maneuver.

If I were to consider replacing them it would be with steel braided lines. This would be a performance upgrade rather than just a plain vanilla "scheduled" change.

Good luck.

Cookin Wid Gas

2015 V-650 of course it's green...it's a Kazawalski.
hawkerjet is offline  
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 10:32 AM
Member
 
quexpress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly-Sig View Post
Well the manual says replace the brake lines at 3 years, so here we are.

2) Are the lines the same for 2015 as 2009? HEL sells a set listed as 2009+, will that fit the 2015? HEL Brake Lines For Kawasaki Versys (2009-)
I don't think so. Keep in mind that the 2015 + have ABS brakes. The brake lines connect to an ABS Module control unit.

I still have a full deck.
I just shuffle slower.
quexpress is offline  
 
post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 12:27 PM
Member
 
jaaklucas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 238
[QUOTE=

If I were to consider replacing them it would be with steel braided lines. This would be a performance upgrade rather than just a plain vanilla "scheduled" change .[/QUOTE]

Does anyone have any experience replacing the Gen 3 ABS brake lines with braided steel lines? I looked into it and the lines are apparently thicker than standard because of the ABS. What I dug up was rare and very expensive. Not a lot of info on that topic for Versys ABS. And no, Im not replacing 3 year old brake lines otherwise, I agree about it being a disclaimer by Kawi for liability purposes. Works for the stealership too! But it is time for a fluid change for me,the fluid is getting discolored though I dont notice any lack of braking...

Last edited by jaaklucas; 01-05-2019 at 12:48 PM.
jaaklucas is online now  
post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Fly-Sig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 919
Ah, upon looking again in the Service Manual it is a 4 yr replacement on the brake lines. 3 years on coolant hoses. Still, I've got some new brake pads to install so I'll pursue the brake lines while I'm at it.

The Service Manual isn't terribly helpful on the configuration of the ABS. I'll have to tear off the plastic pieces to get a better look at it in real life. But I don't see any reason custom stainless steel lines can't be ordered for a reasonable price compared to Kawi OEM plain rubber lines.
Fly-Sig is offline  
post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 09:25 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Poland
Posts: 198
We're in the same boat. Here's what I've learned so far:
- HEL doesn't have an offering for 2015 ABS, I mailed them a week ago about it and they told me they'd very much like if I sent them my lines to measure. They assume they should be pretty close to the earlier gen, so they said it'll probably cost the same, but they offered an extra bonus for being the guinea pig. I told them I'm gonna do it when it's a bit warmer outside. Once that's done, HEL will probably start selling 2015 ABS lines
- It doesn't really matter which brand of braided lines you get, they're all pretty much equivalent in performance and longevity. Maybe just avoid the Chinese stuff from aliexpress Haven't found parts for our model in neither HEL, TRW nor EBC. Feel free to look further.
- The part numbers are different between Mk3 and Mk2, so don't buy the last-gen lines.
- Reading the service manual, there's A LOT of stuff to take off before you get to the ABS pump. Luckily, many of the same parts must be taken off for engine vacuum synchronization (which I'm also overdue), but that must be made with the engine running, not in a closed-garage, so I'm waiting for Spring until I can do both at the same time in relative warmth outdoor. Check if you also have some outstanding maintenance jobs you want to do while the bike is naked.
- You'll probably be fine with a single 500ml brake fluid bottle for both brakes. They're cheap so if you haven't done a bleed job before, you might get two bottles for the peace of mind. You'll use it next year or two anyway. Just remember that once it's been unsealed, it cannot sit for long.
- A vacuum bleeder pump is a godsend. Get one! Makes the job a breeze compared to the old squeeze-and-turn routine. I can't advise on specific brands or models, we get different stuff here. I've got a cheap, no-name tool and it works fine.
- The manual also says to replace rubber elements of the calipers and master cylinder every 4 years (or 48 000 kms, which I'm over). It's probably one of those CIY schedules, but if you decide to go with it, it makes sense to replace them along with the lines because you'll only have to bleed brake fluid once.
jaaklucas likes this.

2015 Versys 650
_Big_Mac_ is offline  
post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 04:17 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 88
Wow this is the first I've looked at the brake lines / system on the Versys. There's a lot more to it than a simple stainless line.
https://www.cheapcycleparts.com/oemp...8/brake-piping That seems like a PITA to replace every 3 years, if you followed the recommendation.
Heywood is offline  
post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 08:28 PM
Super Moderator
 
Fastoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ipoh.Perak.Malaysia
Posts: 6,383
The 09 has steel braided brake line which has not been touched yet and still looks good at 60K km use. However, i do flush brake fluid every year due to high humidity in tropical country.

It all depend on how you feel about your brakes.
Fastoman is offline  
post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-09-2019, 02:06 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Poland
Posts: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heywood View Post
Wow this is the first I've looked at the brake lines / system on the Versys. There's a lot more to it than a simple stainless line.
https://www.cheapcycleparts.com/oemp...8/brake-piping That seems like a PITA to replace every 3 years, if you followed the recommendation.
It is indeed a PITA, but once you replace them with steel braided ones they should last forever - and you get a firmer brake lever as a bonus.

Considering how much longer the brake lines are compared to non-ABS bike, the benefit from switching to non-expanding steel lines is probably even more pronounced. At least I hope so

2015 Versys 650
_Big_Mac_ is offline  
post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 09:57 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Poland
Posts: 198
So, finally managed to get my brake lines out of the bike and send them to HEL. They've sent back replacements.

Attaching photos of the original brake lines, and HEL lines laid next to them, for comparison.

The original lines are permanently connected with solid brake pipes. The pipes are not reusable. HEL will send you continuous, long braided lines instead, they're as thin as the metal piping so they should fit the original clamps on the frame. And they should be massively easier to install than semi-rigid line+pipe combo that Kawi gives us.

The lines are not yet listed on HEL's website but I think you can mail them and say the Polish branch should have measurements.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg brake-lines.jpg (27.0 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg brake-lines2.jpg (43.4 KB, 22 views)
Fly-Sig likes this.

2015 Versys 650
_Big_Mac_ is offline  
post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Fly-Sig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 919
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Big_Mac_ View Post
So, finally managed to get my brake lines out of the bike and send them to HEL. They've sent back replacements.

Attaching photos of the original brake lines, and HEL lines laid next to them, for comparison.

The original lines are permanently connected with solid brake pipes. The pipes are not reusable. HEL will send you continuous, long braided lines instead, they're as thin as the metal piping so they should fit the original clamps on the frame. And they should be massively easier to install than semi-rigid line+pipe combo that Kawi gives us.

The lines are not yet listed on HEL's website but I think you can mail them and say the Polish branch should have measurements.
Thanks!
Fly-Sig is offline  
post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 11:08 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Big_Mac_ View Post
It is indeed a PITA, but once you replace them with steel braided ones they should last forever

Actually I don't know if that's true. I know at least on my car the manual for the braided brake lines says they have less of a lifespan than rubber ones because of all the friction caused by the braid. They need to be inspected regularly. I think the feel is a huge deal at least on the front so I think it's a worthy upgrade but I don't think it will change the service interval at all for the better.
denimnerd99 is offline  
post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 01:25 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Poland
Posts: 198
HEL (and other manufacturers of SS lines, like EBC) give lifetime warranty and don't mention the need to replace anything in the instructions (or their webpage). While this is not an explicit assurance they will last forever, I've never read or heard anyone claim otherwise. On the contrary, I've encountered mechanics saying braided lines are pretty much for the lifetime of the motorcycle, unless they get damaged by external factors.

2015 Versys 650
_Big_Mac_ is offline  
post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-03-2019, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Fly-Sig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 919
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Big_Mac_ View Post
So, finally managed to get my brake lines out of the bike and send them to HEL. They've sent back replacements.

Attaching photos of the original brake lines, and HEL lines laid next to them, for comparison.

The original lines are permanently connected with solid brake pipes. The pipes are not reusable. HEL will send you continuous, long braided lines instead, they're as thin as the metal piping so they should fit the original clamps on the frame. And they should be massively easier to install than semi-rigid line+pipe combo that Kawi gives us.

The lines are not yet listed on HEL's website but I think you can mail them and say the Polish branch should have measurements.
How did the install go? Do all the clips/holders fit properly so the lines are retained where they should be?

Basically, do you recommend them?
Fly-Sig is offline  
post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 03:12 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Poland
Posts: 198
The lines were of proper length and the banjo bolts and screw-type connectors to the ABS pump were all fine. The lines mounted to the frame correctly, but some clips had issues - the ABS sensor cables are clipped straight to the OEM brake lines which are fatter than the braided lines. But since those clip points are not visible on removed lines (as opposed to the wide rubber grommets that signify places where the lines are attached to the frame), they didn't know about them and didn't provide any "fattening" for the ABS clips. Here's what I'm talking about:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/4mnszhgexXj3DvSm9

I've let them know about the problem and sent detailed photos of where the ABS cable clip points are on the lines. They've replied they updated their specification.

Luckily, they've provided redundant rubber grommets which were of the right size, so I've used those and cannibalized some from the OEM lines. My lines are now properly fastened though it required some ingenuity, that's what you get for being the guinea pig.

Apart from that, I'd recommend the product.
Fly-Sig likes this.

2015 Versys 650
_Big_Mac_ is offline  
post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 04:17 AM
Super Moderator
 
Fastoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ipoh.Perak.Malaysia
Posts: 6,383
When you replace the rubber hose for steel braided hose, what you are replacing is rubber hose with Teflon hose. the steel braiding is just for protection purpose. So Teflon has very little expansion under pressure and since its protected by steel braided and not exposed to UV light it tends to last longer.

Just my 2cts thoughts.
_Big_Mac_ likes this.
Fastoman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Versys Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome