Bike doesn't turn on if I don't do the check - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2018, 04:12 AM Thread Starter
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Bike doesn't turn on if I don't do the check

Hi guys, something strange happened to me this morning. After I put the first gear and trying to start, the bike obviously turned off because the side stand was lowered. As soon as I tried to turn it on, however, it did not turned on, it made the classic start-up noise but it did not go. I had to switch off and then turn on the dash to make it run at first try. Why? Could it have been just a case?

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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2018, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryu10 View Post
Hi guys, something strange happened to me this morning. After I put the first gear and trying to start, the bike obviously turned off because the side stand was lowered. As soon as I tried to turn it on, however, it did not turned on, it made the classic start-up noise but it did not go. I had to switch off and then turn on the dash to make it run at first try. Why? Could it have been just a case?

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had you put your side stand up or put it back in neutral?

yes im a guy.
Silvie=latin for. Of the forest /woods. Fox= Vulpine (also my middle name)

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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2018, 09:11 AM
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Hi guys, something strange happened to me this morning. After I put the first gear and trying to start, the bike obviously turned off because the side stand was lowered. As soon as I tried to turn it on, however, it did not turned on, it made the classic start-up noise but it did not go. I had to switch off and then turn on the dash to make it run at first try. Why? Could it have been just a case?

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First my understanding is you are riding a friends new motorcycle,the friend bought and paid for the bike, but has no license. You haven't stated how much experience you have, and seem to be having numerous fears and questions pertaining to a new motorcycle that doesn't belong to you. I can understand that, you don't want to ruin a friendship or be stuck paying for damage.
#1 I would like it if you would take the time to explain what experience you have, what motorcycle you have had or still have and how many years you have been riding, in one of your earlier posts you state this is your first motorcycle https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...549-post1.html. Right now you are kind of on a fine line for me, which I would question Troll/ Inexperienced Rider
As a long time member of this forum most of us are here because we like to ride and we were all new riders and in experienced at one time, I am also a Super Mod, the fine line I mentioned applies also , as too many posts by you that fall under that fine line. So it is extremely important to respond what I have as #1 and underlined. And only that, if I am mistaken, well I am human and make mistakes, however if I am not. We have a real simple ban and clean feature at our disposal.

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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2018, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
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had you put your side stand up or put it back in neutral?
Yes, I put it back on neutral. Today I tried again at it didn't started the first time neither. I turned on the dash, waited for the check, than pressed the start button, the bike started to turn on but then it didn't and I had to press again the start button to turn it on.
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Originally Posted by onewizard View Post
First my understanding is you are riding a friends new motorcycle,the friend bought and paid for the bike, but has no license. You haven't stated how much experience you have, and seem to be having numerous fears and questions pertaining to a new motorcycle that doesn't belong to you. I can understand that, you don't want to ruin a friendship or be stuck paying for damage.
#1 I would like it if you would take the time to explain what experience you have, what motorcycle you have had or still have and how many years you have been riding, in one of your earlier posts you state this is your first motorcycle https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...549-post1.html. Right now you are kind of on a fine line for me, which I would question Troll/ Inexperienced Rider
As a long time member of this forum most of us are here because we like to ride and we were all new riders and in experienced at one time, I am also a Super Mod, the fine line I mentioned applies also , as too many posts by you that fall under that fine line. So it is extremely important to respond what I have as #1 and underlined. And only that, if I am mistaken, well I am human and make mistakes, however if I am not. We have a real simple ban and clean feature at our disposal.
In this case I'm talking about my bike, that is a versys 650 too. This is my first bike and I have less then a year of experience

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2018, 11:28 AM
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Hi guys, something strange happened to me this morning. After I put the first gear and trying to start, the bike obviously turned off because the side stand was lowered. As soon as I tried to turn it on, however, it did not turned on, it made the classic start-up noise but it did not go. I had to switch off and then turn on the dash to make it run at first try. Why? Could it have been just a case?

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It *sounds* like you started the bike in neutral with the side stand down, put the bike in gear with the side stand still down, and the bike died as a result. Then you lifted the side stand, tried to restart the bike, and it wouldn't initially start. So, you turned everything off, then on, and the bike started fine. If that is the case, it's not unusual for that to happen. It's happened to me on the Versys and on my last bike. It's so rare that I forget to raise the side stand, that I can't even tell you if the bike wouldn't restart *every* time I've left the side stand down and had to restart. What I can tell you is that your bike is fine. Don't worry about it. Ride and be happy.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2018, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
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It *sounds* like you started the bike in neutral with the side stand down, put the bike in gear with the side stand still down, and the bike died as a result. Then you lifted the side stand, tried to restart the bike, and it wouldn't initially start. So, you turned everything off, then on, and the bike started fine. If that is the case, it's not unusual for that to happen. It's happened to me on the Versys and on my last bike. It's so rare that I forget to raise the side stand, that I can't even tell you if the bike wouldn't restart *every* time I've left the side stand down and had to restart. What I can tell you is that your bike is fine. Don't worry about it. Ride and be happy.
You understood great! But there is another issue: after some hours I had to go home and when I tried to turn on the bike it didn't started the first time neither. I turned on the dash, waited for the check, than pressed the start button, the bike started to turn on but then it didn't and I had to press again the start button to turn it on. I really don't understand.

The only thing I can think of is that my hands was freeze and maybe I pressed the button in a soft way, but this explanation seems unlikely to me

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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2018, 12:53 PM
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Appology in Order By Me

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Originally Posted by ryu10 View Post
Hi guys, something strange happened to me this morning. After I put the first gear and trying to start, the bike obviously turned off because the side stand was lowered. As soon as I tried to turn it on, however, it did not turned on, it made the classic start-up noise but it did not go. I had to switch off and then turn on the dash to make it run at first try. Why? Could it have been just a case?

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Okay I sent a PM explaining my position, I implied that after viewing 121 posts that there "Right now you are kind of on a fine line for me, which I would question Troll/ Inexperienced Rider" yes I implied that was a possibility. Consider viewing multiple posts, stating it is a friends motorcycle and you are a licensed rider , almost most of the posts refer to unheard of problems, and to compound it / complicate it, this is a new motorcycle.
Going a step further, we have a language communication problem.
So here are some suggestions, very first subject: new 2018 650
Rider with less than 1 year experience
This will help others understand that what alarms you may be just inexperience .

Answer to your latest problem, and I will say there may be a actual problem

What needs to be put in order, a step by step what happened what you did.
#1 was it on the side stand
#2 was it on the side stand and you were sitting on the bike
#3 was this the first start of the day and what is the temperature and is it stored outside?
#4 mention in first gear and side stand down , assume you were on the bike --doesn't turn on I assume you mean pushing the start button??
#5 raising the side stand did not turn on--did you key off and on?
#6A if it is in gear with the side stand up, it will start provide the clutch is pulled in **** this one is really important-- say you keyed on and pushed the start button ( did not turn on can mean 2 things) keyed on is step A and pushing the start button is step B , it is quite possible to be in gear with the stand up and have the clutch pulled in and not start when pushing the start button
#6B- one way to prove this is to put the bike in neutral before keying to OFF, ( that is do not turn the key off)do not lower the stand, once in neutral try pushing the start button Did the starter motor turn over & did it start/
#6C-If the bike starts in neutral, with the stand up , pull in the clutch and put it in first--what happens?
#7 with the bike on the side stand, first start of the day, bike in neutral and the green neutral light is illuminated, pushing the start button will it start?
#8 something to be aware of, if at anytime with the key on, even in neutral, if you drop the bike and get it back up, it will not start no matter what you do, this is the vehicle down sensor which has been known to fail mainly from wet conditions / condensation, very hard to prove, although we have come up with a way of proving it on this forum. I very much doubt this is your problem but asking where it is stored and the outside temperatures is asked so that the problem can be found more accurately

Detail is important

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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2018, 12:54 PM
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You understood great! But there is another issue: after some hours I had to go home and when I tried to turn on the bike it didn't started the first time neither. I turned on the dash, waited for the check, than pressed the start button, the bike started to turn on but then it didn't and I had to press again the start button to turn it on. I really don't understand.

The only thing I can think of is that my hands was freeze and maybe I pressed the button in a soft way, but this explanation seems unlikely to me

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There is no issue, really. Sometimes your bike engine, just like your car engine, needs a second or so longer than usual to turn over. Nothing is wrong. It just happens. From now on, when you start your bike, just depress the starter button, and do not release it, until the engine fully turns over. I would bet that 99% of the time, the engine will turn over immediately and your start-up routine is no different than it always has been

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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2018, 01:09 PM
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Good information

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You understood great! But there is another issue: after some hours I had to go home and when I tried to turn on the bike it didn't started the first time neither. I turned on the dash, waited for the check, than pressed the start button, the bike started to turn on but then it didn't and I had to press again the start button to turn it on. I really don't understand.

The only thing I can think of is that my hands was freeze and maybe I pressed the button in a soft way, but this explanation seems unlikely to me

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So it was cold outside, bike cooled down, where do you store it?
I missed a couple more questions, something you need to pay close attention to. Please first state, where you on the bike or beside it. Side stand down ? Side stand up? Did the start motor turn over when you pushed the start button and did the bike start for say 3 seconds then stop? Still with key on you pushed start button and this time it started and continued to run? Knowing if didn't started means the electric start motor or the gas motor. If the gas motor this is a symptom of the vehicle down sensor. If the electric motor , did you hear a clicking? If the electric motor it could also be a loose engine ground or loose/ corroded frame ground.

Also what is your idle RPM set at once warmed up? How cold is it where you are?
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2018, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
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I was on the bike and the bike engine started to run max for 1 second before turning off. Maybe it's me that I didn't pressed the button for a right period of time, but until today I always did the same thing and the bike turned on in a split second. Today was hotter than other days so the weather temeperature is not involved. This is the first case. In the second case i went to my bike after some hours and it didn't turned on at first try (turn the key on, wait for check, press start button, engine started 1 sec and then the bike turned off)..i had to press the button the second time in order to turn on the engine.
My rpm idle speed is set to 1300 and about the drop sensor that you said before, I tested it since the bike dropped down few months ago and I had to turn off the key and then turn on it again in order to start the bike, otherwise it will never start if I try to turn it on directly after it dropped down in the floor. But at least now I know that this is normal, as you say

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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-06-2018, 07:08 PM
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I'll say it...

ryu, you need to sell your motorcycle, get a car (or drive the one you have) and read a whole lot about motorcycles, maintenance, stories, magazine articles and whatever else you can get you hands on...before ever touching another motorcycle again!!!

Dude, since posting on here I don't think there's been ONE THING on your "new" Versys that you haven't had an issue about!!!


I agree with OneWizard...you sound like a troll. Or at least a young kid that's bored and wants to mess with everyone. I mean seriously, how the **** can a brand new motorcycle have so many things wrong with it like you claim?!?!

If I'm wrong about you then I can only assume you have an O.C.D. condition, in which I suggest you see a physician.


***Moderators...ain't trying to be an a-hole and if I crossed a line here then I apologize but, sweet Lord, this guy needs to step away from a motorcycle for a LOOOONG time!!!
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-07-2018, 01:25 AM Thread Starter
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I'll say it...

ryu, you need to sell your motorcycle, get a car (or drive the one you have) and read a whole lot about motorcycles, maintenance, stories, magazine articles and whatever else you can get you hands on...before ever touching another motorcycle again!!!

Dude, since posting on here I don't think there's been ONE THING on your "new" Versys that you haven't had an issue about!!!


I agree with OneWizard...you sound like a troll. Or at least a young kid that's bored and wants to mess with everyone. I mean seriously, how the **** can a brand new motorcycle have so many things wrong with it like you claim?!?!

If I'm wrong about you then I can only assume you have an O.C.D. condition, in which I suggest you see a physician.


***Moderators...ain't trying to be an a-hole and if I crossed a line here then I apologize but, sweet Lord, this guy needs to step away from a motorcycle for a LOOOONG time!!!
I'm not crazy, if the bike doesn't turn on at first try it's not my imagination, but it's real. Don't you think? What's my fault here?

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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-07-2018, 04:25 AM
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A Lot of riding and less time worrying on the bike will give a better grip on the bike and your understanding of the bike. anytime something happen , just say its normal and ride on unless you are stuck in the middle of no where, then give us a call and we will help you...don,t stress yourself with all the noise the bike makes....its all normal.

JUST RIDE AND DON,T WORRY.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-07-2018, 07:10 AM
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Ryu10.

Just ride the thing! It is a machine, it is great but nothing is perfect 100% of the time. A bike (any bike) not starting on the first push of the button, could be anyone of a hundred things, including bad gas..... also a new bike is more prone to little things like that because it is new and tight, donít worry about it just ride it and enjoy it.

Read your owners manual from cover to cover more than once, understand than little quirky things like having to press the start button more than once is just normal.

Save your posts to the forum for things that are significant and consistent issues. This forum has been a fantastic resource for me and has given me the confidence to do a lot of work (and save a lot of money) on the bike that I would never have done or attempted without their support.

Now get on that thing and ride it and enjoy it or give up riding!

JoH
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-07-2018, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryu10 View Post
I'm not crazy, if the bike doesn't turn on at first try it's not my imagination, but it's real. Don't you think? What's my fault here?

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is there anyway you can record you trying to start it? its almost sounding like your battery is crapping out but im not really sure

yes im a guy.
Silvie=latin for. Of the forest /woods. Fox= Vulpine (also my middle name)

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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-07-2018, 11:30 AM
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Not Enough Detail

I spent a lifetime troubleshooting, I was told by the tech support of an extremely large company https://inductotherm.com/ that I am really good at what I do. Not patting myself on the back here, I want to point out that I need every step put into text. This may seem unneeded , however the fact is he said the motor ran for 1 second and quit , the Idle RPM is 1300, I assume that is 1300 RPM after it goes off fast idle. He says he keys off and on the second try it runs, this is like trying to trouble shoot a PLC that shuts down once every month after running 24/7 : operator says it stops he just hits something with a hammer and does a dance the turns the selector switch off and on 3 times and pushes start*** yes that is helpful?? Not really.
The good news is we have gone beyond the side stand, the clutch switch, the fact it is in gear or neutral, the fact the starter motor is turning over and the stick coils are firing.
Please consider Not Firing and Not Starting are not the same. Not starting to me is like a car, just hear a clicking and nothing. Not Firing, I hear the gas motor turning over at a normal rate of speed but I don't hear it Fire

So it is kind of funny, a very long post Engine not Firing, I am the second poster https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...ght=tip+switch , read post 42 if you want a quick answer, the Kawi techs spent 6 hours of labour. The reason I was able to narrow it down so fast was the detail in the first post.

I indeed do think you have a problem, besides being new to motorcycles, please take your time, put into words each second of what happens. I will give a example. Sitting on bike, side stand is down and gear is in neutral ; turn the key on; hear the fuel pump start; instruments power up;still on side stand ( in neutral green gear light comes on ) and it has been raining outside; and air temp. is 12'C ; push start button and it turns over for as long as I hold start button; it doesn't fire ( I use fire because doesn't start could mean the Electric start motor isn't coming on pushing the start button, very big difference in 1 post) I am stopping here .

Where I stopped , you need to give a second by second description of what happens and follow my instructions.
So pushing the start and it fires, you need to be observant, look at the RPM it should be up around 2000 RPM, count the seconds it runs , I would assume you can use the 1000nd 2000nd 3000nd in your head. [At temperature can be 1350 RPM] Tell me how long it ran. This time do not turn the key off, push the start button, tell me if it fires!!! FYI the electric starter motor is designed that pushing the start button even when the gas motor is running will not damage it, so don't worry about letting the start button go when the engine starts to fire, no harm will come if the engine is at 2000 RPM and you release the start button 3 seconds after it hits 2000 RPM ( I use to do this last year on my 2015 to turn the low beam off when I was stuck in traffic and the fan was running, I have a series regulator and special wiring I have done, and no longer recommend unless you have auxiliary independent lighting--which I now have)

Leaving the key on while repeated tries tells me if the ECU has detected a problem and cut out the fuel pump and stick coils, turning the key off resets the ECU and you will never resolve your problem unless you give detail and follow my direction. If you try a second time with the key on, pay attention to how long the motor turned over, after 6 seconds and no firing, key off and try again, please put all the detail in your post.
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-07-2018, 03:56 PM
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Onewizard you are one very knowledgeable and PATIENT soul!
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-07-2018, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
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Onewizard you are one very knowledgeable and PATIENT soul!
Indeed he is.

Onewizard today I tried again and the bike started fine just usual. I don't want to waste your time, or other guys time, no longer. It appears that it was a casual thing, even if I don't know why the bike did it. I hope that it doesn't happen again, but if it will I will be very meticolous in my description.

In the meantime I will do like you guys said: I simply will ride the bike

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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-07-2018, 04:55 PM
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Onewizard you are one very knowledgeable and PATIENT soul!
That is from years of working on inverters, nothing like seeing low income workers being sent home, upper management coming down every hour asking how I am doing, [ me knowing they are minutes away from calling the US and get someone flown up] we are talking loosing $100,000 a day in production, yes no pressure on me, I am dealing with in excess of 1200 volts DC with enough energy to vaporize a 1/4 by 4 inch piece of copper bus, possibly already blew 2 SCR's worth $3000 , numerous other parts, I am trying to find all the damage and asses what parts are in stock and the ones that aren't, get them on Industrial break down and flown into Canada. All the time I have people doubting me , a dumb Canadian, how the h^&#"m does he know this stuff. Over the years I had more and more foundry companies putting faith in me, in fact Inductotherm did, they tried to hire me , I had no interest of dealing with all of Canada , where I truly would be on my own. At 68 I still consult, this thread is the kind of troubleshooting that I thrive on, it is a rare occurrence for me not to solve a problem, however I can say I made 1000nds of calls to tech support in the US, and a few times I had service techs flown up, because we were into a week of being down, intermittent trips, more damage, something else failed then run trouble free for 8 hours, then blow fuses and SCR's, no shame in asking for help, just no one in Canada for me to ask, until 2006.

There you go
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-08-2018, 12:08 PM
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That is from years of working on inverters, nothing like seeing low income workers being sent home, upper management coming down every hour asking how I am doing, [ me knowing they are minutes away from calling the US and get someone flown up] we are talking loosing $100,000 a day in production, yes no pressure on me, I am dealing with in excess of 1200 volts DC with enough energy to vaporize a 1/4 by 4 inch piece of copper bus, possibly already blew 2 SCR's worth $3000 , numerous other parts, I am trying to find all the damage and asses what parts are in stock and the ones that aren't, get them on Industrial break down and flown into Canada. All the time I have people doubting me , a dumb Canadian, how the h^&#"m does he know this stuff. Over the years I had more and more foundry companies putting faith in me, in fact Inductotherm did, they tried to hire me , I had no interest of dealing with all of Canada , where I truly would be on my own. At 68 I still consult, this thread is the kind of troubleshooting that I thrive on, it is a rare occurrence for me not to solve a problem, however I can say I made 1000nds of calls to tech support in the US, and a few times I had service techs flown up, because we were into a week of being down, intermittent trips, more damage, something else failed then run trouble free for 8 hours, then blow fuses and SCR's, no shame in asking for help, just no one in Canada for me to ask, until 2006.

There you go
EASY for YOU to say, Glen....



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fasteddiecopeman is offline  
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