ECU'S / Flashing & Tuning / Versys 650 / Complete - Page 3 - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #41 of 121 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 11:39 AM Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=Green2015;1608643]Also SUBSCRIBED!





I have two questions:
  • Will the tune work the same with an aftermarket exhaust, or do we need to let Steve know that we have one so the tune can be tweaked to account for it? (Leo Vince SBK underbody)
  • Is it possible to not include the Rev Limiter reduction? Everything about this tune sounds incredible except losing that last 500 rpm. I'm rarely ever in that part of the rev range, and it's not making peak power up there, but it's nice to know it's there in the rare instance it's needed.

1) if the leo vince didn't drastically alter the way the bike ran when you put it on, it's probably OK to run with the flash. But understand "tweaking" isn't actually possible in the way you're suggesting. Without actual a/f ratio data, there's no way to know what the bike needs as far as fueling changes. If someone tells you he can just add or subtract fuel from the whole table and it will be good... RUN.

2) I can leave the limiter at 10,000, but WHY? the bike is making more power than stock and the extra revs won't help you drop into a stronger part of the power curve while shifting. as far as i' concerned it's abusing the engine for no gain.

Steve
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post #42 of 121 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 06:27 PM
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1) if the leo vince didn't drastically alter the way the bike ran when you put it on, it's probably OK to run with the flash. But understand "tweaking" isn't actually possible in the way you're suggesting. Without actual a/f ratio data, there's no way to know what the bike needs as far as fueling changes. If someone tells you he can just add or subtract fuel from the whole table and it will be good... RUN.

2) I can leave the limiter at 10,000, but WHY? the bike is making more power than stock and the extra revs won't help you drop into a stronger part of the power curve while shifting. as far as i' concerned it's abusing the engine for no gain.

Steve
Thank you for the fast reply.

1) That makes total sense. My motivation for this question came from experience with an ECU tune on my Miata. However in that case, the person doing the tuning had collected A/F ratio data from many previous Miatas running that specific aftermarket exhaust, and was able to tweak the tune accordingly. It makes sense why that doesn't apply here.

2) I guess this one comes down to a couple things...

I've been riding bikes with the Kawi 650 engine since 2010. Back then it was an ER-6n with an 11,000 RPM redline. Since then, Kawasaki has reduced it to 10,500 and then 10,000. I'm used to being able to ring this engine out a bit more than what the newer models allow. Power falls off after 9000, but there are still occasions where I want to run a gear out a little higher than 9500 rpm. Also, depending on the gearing, it might still put more torque to the ground above 9500 rpm than what it would upon shifting to the next gear. I did a little math to check this assumption.

Here's a comparison of a 1-2 shift at 10000 RPM vs 9500 RPM. I got my torque values from your dyno plot (here). For the sake of this napkin calculation I assume drivetrain loss is constant and therefore can be excluded. My assumption was that due to the lower gear ratio, the bike would put down more torque to the rear wheel at 10,000 RPM in 1st gear than in 2nd gear immediately after the shift. The math below shows that assumption was incorrect.

1st gear torque @ 10000 RPM: 30 lb-ft * 2.438 * 3.067 = 224.3 lb-ft
1337.3 wheel RPM shift to 2nd results in starting 2nd at 7030 RPM
2nd gear torque @ ~7030 RPM: 44 lb-ft * 1.714 * 3.067 = 231.3 lb-ft
However, then I checked shifting at 9500 RPM. In this case, 1st gear was putting more torque to the rear wheel than 2nd gear immediately after the shift. So it appears that there is more meat left on the bone after 9500 RPM.

1st gear torque @ 9500 RPM: 34 lb-ft * 2.438 * 3.067 = 254.2 lb-ft
1270.5 wheel RPM shift to 2nd results in starting 2nd at 6679 RPM
2nd gear torque @ ~6679 RPM: 43 lb-ft * 1.714 * 3.067 = 226.0 lb-ft
The inflection point where diminishing returns kick in is just past 9700 RPM, where 1st gear wheel torque dips below the torque available by shifting into 2nd gear.

1st gear torque @ 9700 RPM: 32 lb-ft * 2.438 * 3.067 = 239.3 lb-ft
1297.3 wheel RPM shift to 2nd results in starting 2nd at 6819 RPM
2nd gear torque @ ~6819 RPM: 44 lb-ft * 1.714 * 3.067 = 231.3 lb-ft
In the grand scheme that 200-300 RPM extra isn't much, but it also isn't useless. In the rare event that you want to squeeze every last bit of power available out of the Versys engine, it's nice to have it there. Also, having a wider available RPM range makes each gear a bit more flexible. It's an extra couple MPH before having to shift on a straight before braking, etc. This isn't a track bike where every millisecond counts, but occasionally I find a good road for some spirited riding and want to make the most of it.

Also, it will probably bother me if the redline indication on the tachometer doesn't match the actual redline. All of the above is probably just some mental justification for the actual reason right here.

I'll contact you via the email listed on your site to purchase.
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2015 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT [Candy Lime Green]
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post #43 of 121 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 10:33 PM Thread Starter
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I can set the rev limiter to any rpm a person wants.

As far as tach accuracy - I don't recall on the v650, but my concours is off by 500 rpm, it shows higher than the actual rpms reached.
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post #44 of 121 (permalink) Old 03-07-2019, 09:36 AM
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Y'know, I've been riding motorcycles for ~46 years, and I don't believe I've ever hit the rev limiter on any bike, even dirt bikes. Which I guess means I've been riding like an old man since age 12. LOL. At least I'm a good person to buy a used bike from. My last two bikes had cylinder head pressures well within spec when I sold them at 78,000 and 65,000 miles. Now git offa my lawn!
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Nat'l Cycle "Sport-Touring" screen; Givi hand guards; BMW Sport Grips; Omni-Cruise throttle lock; Motowerk mirror extenders, side stand foot & highway pegs; Denali Mini Soundbomb horn; SW-Motech top rack, Quick-Lock Evo side racks, wide foot pegs & GPS shelf; Givi E-22 side cases & V-47 top case; RKA 13L Shiloh Road tank bag; Hyper-Lites; Sargent seat; Shoodaben ECU reflash; decalectomy.
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post #45 of 121 (permalink) Old 03-07-2019, 02:34 PM
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Steve! Get that 2017 flash ready! Riding season is only a month away!😏
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post #46 of 121 (permalink) Old 03-16-2019, 11:54 AM
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Yesterday I got out and did a trip up to Whistler and came back the slow way going up Callahan valley and Squamish river road to give my 2015 650 ECU flash a good workout. The best way to describe Steves flash is found in the name of his company, Shoodaben. This is what SHOULD HAVE BEEN from the factory! It has inspired a new level of love of riding this bike for me. The throttle roll on and off is so smooth,no jerkiness. I run a 15T-44T combo stock muffler. The whole spectrum of gears seems balanced now. The range of all the gears is bigger as theres noticeably more power down low so theres way less fiddling looking for the right gear. Hence less shifting. I dont use a gear indicator so Ill have to retrain my instincts. Can stay in any gear longer. Top end is probably the same but I never get there anyways.But its the getting there that is improved. The legendary Kawi midrange is more pronounced now,particularly leading up to 5K. The 2015 649 felt like it was asking for more fuel before under 4k before,now its getting it. Lots of room around 5 K right where I love it. Crack the throttle there and it has more depth. Engine runs smooth like a factory tune on 87 gas,no gurgling or farting. Very seamless. So without going on too much Ill say this is a very professional ECU tune,well thought out and no back yard job. For me,the connection between human and machine is what I love about a bike.And this ECU tune has brought it closer.
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post #47 of 121 (permalink) Old 03-16-2019, 02:11 PM
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Posted December 2, 2018.

Pretty tired, woke up at 6AM , made a big breakfast and waited until 10AM , wet messy leaf covered roads, overcast, got to Aylmer , bright sunshine and not a cloud in the sky and 11'C, the next 3 hours it stayed like that
So several surprises, first one was I normally am in 2nd or 3rd when in the city speed limit of 60 KM/HR, well not anymore, , @ 3000 RPM in 6th @60 KM/HR. I was following a pickup across 3 sets of railway tracks, had sufficient distance ( so I thought) however I wasn't expecting the guy to stop on the tracks ( obviously had bad or no shocks), so to my surprise I needed to brake more and lost my extra space , of about 3 seconds, what surprised me was, in this situation I would need to rapidly downshift or come to a complete stop and put my foot down****that didn't happen , in fact I just had enough speed to keep upright, when I let the clutch out, and my turn to cross the tracks, the RPM was around 1700 RPM, I had absolutely no trouble accelerating , as it turned out I was in 4th gear . Second surprise was when I got onto the highway and was able to accelerate in 6th gear from 3000 RPM at 60 KM/HR up to 90 KM/HR, no hesitation and absolutely smooth**** yup that was on my face.
I think the KM/L will be less than before, as I left with a full tank and had 1 bar left when I got home, 250 KM traveled, however I had high winds to deal with and my engine ran at 187'F , to get a accurate KM/L will take more riding in normal 20'C temperatures, and keep in mind, the improvement in the below 4000 RPM was the goal here. So it is going to take me several long rides to get use to the shifting pattern, well actually you can just put it in 6th gear at 50 KM/HR and accelerate from there, in fact I went through several communities with a reduced speed limit, before the flash I would drop down to 3rd gear when entering 60 KM/HR, now I just keep my feet up on the highway pegs and leave it in 6th. So it is like a different bike!!
I am sure I missed something but there you go.


March 16/ 2019
I also did several posts in the UK Versys forum, one comment was they never ride in the below 4000 RPM range, another was under booster plugs, again no response or negative response. You know what they say, you can lead a horse to water but****.
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post #48 of 121 (permalink) Old 03-16-2019, 07:24 PM
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Yesterday I got out and did a trip up to Whistler and came back the slow way going up Callahan valley and Squamish river road to give my 2015 650 ECU flash a good workout. The best way to describe Steves flash is found in the name of his company, Shoodaben. This is what SHOULD HAVE BEEN from the factory! It has inspired a new level of love of riding this bike for me. The throttle roll on and off is so smooth,no jerkiness. I run a 15T-44T combo stock muffler. The whole spectrum of gears seems balanced now. The range of all the gears is bigger as theres noticeably more power down low so theres way less fiddling looking for the right gear. Hence less shifting. I dont use a gear indicator so Ill have to retrain my instincts. Can stay in any gear longer. Top end is probably the same but I never get there anyways.But its the getting there that is improved. The legendary Kawi midrange is more pronounced now,particularly leading up to 5K. The 2015 649 felt like it was asking for more fuel before under 4k before,now its getting it. Lots of room around 5 K right where I love it. Crack the throttle there and it has more depth. Engine runs smooth like a factory tune on 87 gas,no gurgling or farting. Very seamless. So without going on too much Ill say this is a very professional ECU tune,well thought out and no back yard job. For me,the connection between human and machine is what I love about a bike.And this ECU tune has brought it closer.
It is pretty awesome, eh?

Disclaimer: I spent the better part of two days playing at the Shoodaben Skunkworks being a guinea pig working on different settings to get to the final product. Quite the eye opening experience watching a "tune" evolve and being a part of it. And it was a real pleasure to watch a master at work. I lost track of how many times the ECU came out, got reflashed, test ridden, came out, reflashed, test ridden, came out, reflashed...until it was juuuust right.

Yeah, if you want true ram air tuning, you better be willing to ram some air! (SteveinSunnyFlorida)

'15 KLE650LT
'99 Concours(with 234,xxx miles on it), sold
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And most of Canada too, eh?
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post #49 of 121 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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It is pretty awesome, eh?

Disclaimer: I spent the better part of two days playing at the Shoodaben Skunkworks being a guinea pig working on different settings to get to the final product. Quite the eye opening experience watching a "tune" evolve and being a part of it. And it was a real pleasure to watch a master at work. I lost track of how many times the ECU came out, got reflashed, test ridden, came out, reflashed, test ridden, came out, reflashed...until it was juuuust right.
And that was at the very end of about 4 months of work previous to that! Steve
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post #50 of 121 (permalink) Old 03-19-2019, 08:54 PM
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And that was at the very end of about 4 months of work previous to that! Steve
Nice work Steve and also to your test pilot Steve! Got out again on the weekend for a ride with a buddy on an Africa twin for a couple hundred K of a mixed pavement loop out to Harrison lake and back. I like twisties with up and down and now Im getting used to my new flash. Smoother throttle response both on and off(more sophisticated for lack of a better description), more power leading up to the mid range and above. Less thinking about getting stuck in shifts,more concentrating on at-tempo mastery of control. Feeling the bike. Shes got a bark now in 3rd and 5th gear seems bigger for non-freeway cruising. Kawi is good at creating power but Shoodaben is good at refining it. Im thinking Ill not crave a bigger displacement bike now, this 649 fits my needs. Two Thumbs up!
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post #51 of 121 (permalink) Old 03-20-2019, 01:38 PM
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Argh!

You guys are killing me with all the goodness you’re describing! Please! Some 2017 love!
A bit of Spring fever kicking in!
Sorry
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post #52 of 121 (permalink) Old 03-20-2019, 06:21 PM
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You guys are killing me with all the goodness you’re describing! Please! Some 2017 love!
A bit of Spring fever kicking in!
Sorry

And 2018!!!
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post #53 of 121 (permalink) Old 03-21-2019, 01:13 PM
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I was able to put 225 miles on the flash the past few days of good weather and am really happy with it.

I am running it on my 2016 with the LeoVince exhaust system, currently with the silencer insert in.

Immediately I noticed the bike running smoother down to 3000-2800 RPMs. I went through Rifle, CO yesterday which has a 25 mph speed limit with a handful of stoplights, and was cruising in 3rd gear, comfortably able to speed up and slow down with traffic through the greens, whereas last fall pre-flash in the same spot 2nd gear was mandatory with fair amount of clutching and coasting to avoid the jerky-shaky sub-4000 rpm range 3rd gear would have delivered. That alone is worth the price to me, but it only got better going faster.

At speed and in the twistys the most noticeable improvement was excellent and instant throttle response, much more nuanced throttle control was possible which is important when trying to be precise. Cracking the throttle open to zip past someone encroaching my lane was a delight, no downshift needed just a burst of speed. I haven't explored the upper RPM ranges yet but am only expecting good surprises.

Recorded 59 MPG on this first outing, mostly 55-65 mph with a few stretches of 75mph on the interstate. 55-65 MPG is typical for me before the flash so I am happy I didn't lose anything there. My only secret there is being a lightweight guy and living at high altitude, lowest point yesterday was 5300 feet in Rifle.

There is a bit more audible 'feedback' from the LV exhaust on overrun than before, closed throttle RPMs falling coming off the interstate for example, nothing approaching backfiring or loud pops, just a little more character which I dont mind at all. Checked the header bolts for torque during winter maintenance and were fine so it shouldn't be an exhaust leak.

Heading for TX for MotoGP and hill country riding in a few weeks, so I will report back on how the LV exhaust + flash combo is at low altitude in the future. So far its been great, Steve couldn't have picked a better name for his business!

2016 Versys 650LT - Madstad, T-Bob, LeoVince, SeatConcepts, HyperPro CSC Damper, Shoodabeen Flashed
2003 KLR 685 - +1mm IN & EX SS valves P&P, Innovate Wideband O2 Sensor, Progressive 465 w/ RAP, ThermoBob
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post #54 of 121 (permalink) Old 03-30-2019, 04:41 PM
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Finally able to get my bike out today to test the ecu flash done by Steve over the winter. When first starting, the engine sounded better and revved up faster, not the usual bunny farts i remembered from last summer. When revving through first 3 gears the front end feels lighter and it definitely flies up to 70 mph faster! It has more low end grunt and over all drive ability makes it a lot more fun to ride!
It's only in the upper 30's so I didn't ride to far but can tell I'm really going to enjoy riding this season!
Thanks Steve!
mully

Picture of my home made exhaust that I since added another baffle and pointed out the other side and painted black.
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post #55 of 121 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 06:42 AM
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I finally got a chance to reinstall my ECU and go for a test ride after getting it back from Steve a couple weeks ago.

WOW.

This tune is even better than I anticipated. The hesitation / bucking below 4000 RPM is just gone. The bike happily accelerates from 2500 RPM in all gears. And it does so authoritatively from 2500. This is how a 650 twin should feel!

The on/off throttle jerkiness is gone too. It's much easier to modulate at small throttle opening cruising speeds. This is how the bike should have felt from the factory. Buttery smooth and refined!

Finally, overall power is definitely improved. The bike doesn't suddenly feel like it's a 1000, but there's a notable improvement in power everywhere. It just feels a tad stronger and I consider that just an added bonus to the really important improvements I already described.

This is the best ~$250 you will spend on your Versys 650. Do it!

P.S. Thank you Steve for this awesome contribution to the Versys 650 community! I absolutely love this bike, and you fixed the one major complaint I had about it.
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2015 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT [Candy Lime Green]
2003 Yamaha XT225
2006 Yamaha TW200

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post #56 of 121 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 10:17 AM
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April 13/ 2019

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green2015 View Post
I finally got a chance to reinstall my ECU and go for a test ride after getting it back from Steve a couple weeks ago.

WOW.

This tune is even better than I anticipated. The hesitation / bucking below 4000 RPM is just gone. The bike happily accelerates from 2500 RPM in all gears. And it does so authoritatively from 2500. This is how a 650 twin should feel!

The on/off throttle jerkiness is gone too. It's much easier to modulate at small throttle opening cruising speeds. This is how the bike should have felt from the factory. Buttery smooth and refined!

Finally, overall power is definitely improved. The bike doesn't suddenly feel like it's a 1000, but there's a notable improvement in power everywhere. It just feels a tad stronger and I consider that just an added bonus to the really important improvements I already described.

This is the best ~$250 you will spend on your Versys 650. Do it!

P.S. Thank you Steve for this awesome contribution to the Versys 650 community! I absolutely love this bike, and you fixed the one major complaint I had about it.
I put another 340 KM on the bike, 80 to 90 KM/HR cross winds, had my heated gear on after 3PM. The new flash is one of those things that explaining / documenting, can not possibly come close to experiencing it, it is just that much better!
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post #57 of 121 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 06:25 AM
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a) get the bike that has the performance you need; don't void warranty and waste money on ecu remap for a few lousy % improvement, next thing you know you will be coerced into costly new airbox and exhausts, filters and such...

b) the stock versys 650 is fine between 2500 and 7000 rpm. Below that it's chugging. Higher it's not worth hurting it. The 3500-4000 range is dead center for city riding and it's fine. I think your problem is between the handlebar and the seat... Adapt.

c) it will not vibrate less with aging, simply because the engine/handebars/pegs rubber mounts will dry/wear and get harder. My 2015 has over 50'000 miles and it's not a young smooth "she" anymore... it's definitely a middle-aged cranky scarred boy, like its owner.

d) What the manual says about lowest shifting rpms, it's likely the safety rpms below which the engine hurts again (low oil pressure and chugging). Shift with the sound, speed, cluthing and performance that pleases you. It's your toy.
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post #58 of 121 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 06:15 PM
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I'm looking forward to getting mine flashed. The on/off and low input throttle on mine is so annoying. I just an email to Steve to get the process started.

Mulley
15 Versys 650 LT, 16 Beta 300RR, 15 KTM 500 EXC
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post #59 of 121 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 06:33 PM
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I wish we could get this on the Gen 2 650s. Everything time a thread on this Flash pops up I get so jealous.
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post #60 of 121 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 09:09 PM
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I wish we could get this on the Gen 2 650s. Everything time a thread on this Flash pops up I get so jealous.
Can't respond to the gen 2, but I had the MK-1 , let me say it was open loop and never had the issues of the MK-3. Performance could be attained very similar to the MK-3 new flash by adjusting the TPS , you really need the $24 harness and a good 2 decimal place DC meter. Several also did the vacuum hose mod, I tried it and it was just too rich on the MK-1 when engine braking.
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