Front Sprocket Nut Just Came Off - Page 2 - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #21 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by PapaBear AU View Post
Yeah, this was my first bike. Lesson learned for sure. I can't imagine that many people out there are performing an inspection of the countershaft nut/washer securement as a standard safety precaution before purchasing a used bike though.

I'm still not sure how I would accomplish this in the future before taking ownership. Sounds expensive to have a mechanic do it, or sketchy to ask the owner to let me open it up instead of just test riding it. But after buying a used bike, I would definitely open it up and check after this experience.
It's part of the safety inspection procedure which is required when registering a used motorcycle... There's nothing to 'open up'. A couple bolts for the cover is all that separates you from countershaft nut.

Splines and countershaft looks fine. It's just still very dirty. Clean it off properly before reassembly.

More than catastrophic. You are very fortunate to still be alive.

Tighten countershaft sprocket nut to 92 ft-lbs.

Last edited by invader; 11-13-2018 at 05:43 PM.
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post #22 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 06:48 PM
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You are one lucky guy, and the sprocket didn't come out on highway...of all the years with the forum, this is the first time we have heard sprocket nut lose subject.
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post #23 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-14-2018, 12:25 AM
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The splines on the shaft have to engage the washer. The nut has a counter bore for the splines to go into. Put on your sprocket and washer. Tighten the nut a little to seat the parts then back it off just a little and make sure the washer will not rotate. Torque it to spec. and bend the cup over onto the nut. The nut is subject to a lot of rotational force when you accelerate or brake hard. (lock up the brake and the counter shaft goes from spinning to stopped instantly. The nut still wants to turn.) The cup washer is to keep it from turning just like a cotter pin in an axle. You can't use a cotter pin as both pieces are rotating and would be a vibration issue.

Your old cup washer looks damaged on the splines. Bent upward as it started to slip over the shaft splines while the nut was coming off. It should have took most of the damage and not the splines on the shaft. The shaft is much stronger and the washer has to soft enough to be bent over the nut.

You are very lucky that it didn't lock up or bust the engine cases. Look up broken chain posts. Both would have been bad news for you.
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post #24 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-14-2018, 09:47 AM
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Not OEM sprocket

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Originally Posted by PapaBear AU View Post
Actually, maybe there isn't quite as much room on the splines as I thought (pics). Like I said, the washer will fit on them with the sprocket on, but just barely. And upon closer inspection, the edges of the splines appear to be slightly rounded off . That may have actually been a contributing factor. And this may be getting into a more complex job than I had thought. Could any of you guys confirm that there should be significantly more spline showing outside of the sprocket or not? That would be extremely helpful!

Also, on the nut, a local dealership had it in stock so I went ahead and forked out the $25 on that. Got a new washer too (of course). I'm just concerned about not having enough room for the washer now.


Other updates:
Dealership said they always just replace these washers because they don't want to mess with problems on this over a $3-$4 part. Also, they didn't touch it or look at it on their inspection, as expected.

Last owner thinks he probably did it one time when he was just opening up his bike lubing things. Didn't really know what he was doing though, clearly. Said he owes me a drink at least, haha. I made sure we are both more careful in the future!
As in the title, that isn't a OEM sprocket, on my 07 I purchased a 16 tooth rubber dampened sprocket, OEM was 15 tooth and on the 2015 they still use the 15T. The link I posted earlier about the nut trick, applies for tightening as well, take a look. That washer is a backup, should things go wrong, it is quite possible the splines in the sprocket are worn, only you can check that, if they are, I would suggest getting a new sprocket as it is softer than the splines on the shaft . Having worn splines, no matter what torque you apply to the nut, eventually it will come loose.
And what others said, you should go out and buy a lottery ticket.

Photos of sprocket https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...nut-trick.html

More photos for 16 Tooth install https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...-sprocket.html
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Last edited by onewizard; 11-14-2018 at 10:28 AM.
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post #25 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-17-2018, 02:09 PM
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I'm still puzzled as to why the original owner didn't even mention he's been messing with the front sprocket washer/nut, especially not being a motorcycle mechanic.
I wonder if there are elements of liability under the law there, involving willful withholding of important information since I'm assuming he put the bike up for sale as road worthy.

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post #26 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-17-2018, 06:38 PM
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I'm still puzzled as to why the original owner didn't even mention he's been messing with the front sprocket washer/nut, especially not being a motorcycle mechanic.
I wonder if there are elements of liability under the law there, involving willful withholding of important information since I'm assuming he put the bike up for sale as road worthy.

Responsibility and liability lies within the used vehicle safety inspection for certification, which is required along with insurance coverage in order to license the motorcycle as road legal.
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post #27 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-17-2018, 07:14 PM
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I guess that depends on where you live as to the safety Inspection. In the US not all states have inspections or they may only be on a yearly bases. I have never had the counter shaft looked at on any DMV safety inspection.

As for telling you that the sprocket was replaced. The PO probably thought it was done correctly. I have never heard a seller say I messed it up but I still want top dollar for it. When ever you buy used you have to do your do diligence. Still not sure I would have looked at it, and if it had not started to spin off you might not have seen it. You would have to put a socket on it.
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post #28 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-17-2018, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
Responsibility and liability lies within the used vehicle safety inspection for certification, which is required along with insurance coverage in order to license the motorcycle as road legal.
You could do a million things to a bike between yearly safety inspections, and sell it after while it's still certified as road legal.
In fact, people do that all the time by customizing their bikes in all sorts of ways - custom sprockets, custom chains, custom swing arms, custom shocks, custom handlebars, you name it.
So if you did work on the bike, and someone who bought the bike you've been messing with dies in an accident caused by a catastrophic part failure, then what? Who's to blame then?
Or does it have to go through the certification process again, no matter if it's been certified as road legal recently?

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post #29 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-22-2018, 11:13 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the info guys! I got a new sprocket on there with plenty of room on the splines actually.

One last question just to make sure on a safety issue:
I'm slightly concerned that when the chain was scraping against other components on the left side, it may have damaged the master link. I believe this is a riveted master clip, and I'm not sure if maybe some of the flare that holds it down could have been worn off in the incident. Alternatively, I'm not 1000% confident that it was never a clip-style master clip and maybe the clip got scraped off (again - I'm still learning motorcycles here - but I don't think this is the case). My question....is this master link definitely riveted and does it look like it's inadequately flared out to hold the pins in place?
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post #30 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-22-2018, 11:34 AM
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If you can see a grove in both pins that a flat clip could be installed in it is probably a clip style and it's missing. Take a punch and hammer and try to move that link. If it's a clip style it will move. A riveted link will need to have the end ground off to move the link.
Search for chain posts or YouTube videos to see more.

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post #31 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-22-2018, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you! @jpd
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post #32 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-22-2018, 03:54 PM
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I would start by hand threading the new nut on to see if it binds. if it does, stop as soon as it does. then I would try cleaning up the threads with a "Nu-trix" thread file or a thread chaser. I would be hesitant to use a die because a die cuts a "V" shaped thread and the shaft probably has rolled thread which is "U" shaped. you may be able to use the old nut as a chaser by cutting a slot in it with a Dremel cut off wheel.
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if I'm answering your question I assume the basic points have been addressed, such as: did you do a compression test? is it still on fire?
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post #33 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-22-2018, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBear AU View Post
My question....is this master link definitely riveted
Yes. It has hollow rivet pins.

Quote:
and does it look like it's inadequately flared out to hold the pins in place?
On your photo, it "appears" to be OK.
With your bike in neutral, turn the rear wheel by hand and watch that link when it goes over the sprockets. Does it bind, etc.?
Measure the outside thickness of the master link (front to back) and then measure the thickness for one of the other links. Is there a big difference between the two measurements? If not, IMHO you're good to go.

I still have a full deck.
I just shuffle slower.
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post #34 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-22-2018, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by PapaBear AU View Post
Thanks for all the info guys! I got a new sprocket on there with plenty of room on the splines actually.

One last question just to make sure on a safety issue:
I'm slightly concerned that when the chain was scraping against other components on the left side, it may have damaged the master link. I believe this is a riveted master clip, and I'm not sure if maybe some of the flare that holds it down could have been worn off in the incident. Alternatively, I'm not 1000% confident that it was never a clip-style master clip and maybe the clip got scraped off (again - I'm still learning motorcycles here - but I don't think this is the case). My question....is this master link definitely riveted and does it look like it's inadequately flared out to hold the pins in place?
Just a FYI , that definetly is a rivet link, if you have never installed one, first let me tell you, you need a proper tool, https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...70-post46.html I can tell you I had to press the outer plate on using the tool, the photo you showed, if you took a mini grinder and ground those rivets flush, you would still need the tool to pull it apart, as it is something like a pop rivet, it expands under pressure.
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Yes. It has hollow rivet pins.

On your photo, it "appears" to be OK.
With your bike in neutral, turn the rear wheel by hand and watch that link when it goes over the sprockets. Does it bind, etc.?
Measure the outside thickness of the master link (front to back) and then measure the thickness for one of the other links. Is there a big difference between the two measurements? If not, IMHO you're good to go.
This is excellent advice, almost identical to what is suggested in the tool manual.
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post #35 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-23-2018, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. The advice from folks on this thread was so valuable. I am back up and running nicely at this point. Did a 2 hr ride yesterday up Mt. Diablo with no problems. And after a couple of weeks of using my wife's CB500F, I can say I am extremely grateful to be back on my Versys. Happy Thanksgiving Leftovers Day everyone!
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post #36 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-23-2018, 05:48 PM
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Thanks guys. The advice from folks on this thread was so valuable. I am back up and running nicely at this point. Did a 2 hr ride yesterday up Mt. Diablo with no problems. And after a couple of weeks of using my wife's CB500F, I can say I am extremely grateful to be back on my Versys. Happy Thanksgiving Leftovers Day everyone!
Either you need to edit your location as Down Under or your avitar , edit rotate c/w.
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post #37 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-24-2018, 12:36 AM
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Either you need to edit your location as Down Under or your avitar , edit rotate c/w.
Location: Hanging from the ceiling
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post #38 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-24-2018, 01:46 PM
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My 2017 service manual calls for 122 ft/lbs
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post #39 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-05-2018, 11:59 AM Thread Starter
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Either you need to edit your location as Down Under or your avitar , edit rotate c/w.
lol, I uploaded a new photo but it seems to have just not taken! Oh well...
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