Switching to synthetic oil - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-28-2018, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
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Switching to synthetic oil

Not trying to starts an oil thread... Just to report a fact...

Last friday I went to the kawi dealer to do the 6000km maintnance. I asked to switch to full sintetic oil. Right away the mechanic asked me If I felt the gear box very hard. Not a lot but is was definivly more arsh than my cb500x.

After the filter and oil exchange he told me to take it for a spin.

I could not belive the diference in the gear box. The noticeable "clunc" when changing gear, specially first gear is gone. The first gear is still a bit stiffer than the others, but compared to before it is butter smooth.

I didn't expect to notice such a diference. And I'm wondering If I felt this in the gear box If the same effect is being "apllied" to the rest of the motor...

Well this was just to report my recent experience. Ride safely.

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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-28-2018, 02:04 PM
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...I didn't expect to notice such a diference. And I'm wondering If I felt this in the gear box If the same effect is being "apllied" to the rest of the motor....
I expect that it IS!

I have used synthetic oil in EVERY four-stroke motor I own, for years. That includes lawnmowers, cars, trucks, motorcycles, hot-rods, old Corvettes, etc.

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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-28-2018, 02:19 PM
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I’ve absolutely noticed better shifting and smoother clutch engagement after changing to synthetic oil.
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-28-2018, 02:42 PM
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I only use synthetic.Theres alot going on in that Kawi engine, I dont skimp on that. If you read too much on it you will get dizzy,gotta believe in the science.
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-28-2018, 09:53 PM
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Just as the cons of mineral oil revolve around its impurities, the benefits of synthetic oil revolve around its purity. Synthetic oil consists of uniform molecules that are specifically tailored to serve as a performance lubricant. That means it does a better job of reducing wear and holds up better under extreme use. The cons? There’s really just one: Price. Synthetics are difficult to produce, and the cost reflects that. We’re talking $15 a liter versus about $6 a liter for this mineral oil. And that's the Science of Synthetics OIL.
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 04:47 PM
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When I first went "synthetic" MANY years ago [Amsoil], I read all their tests and I remember that the 'film-strength' of mineral oil was on the order of 320 pounds/ sq. inch, while the synth was good for 3,200 pounds/ sq. inch. In addition they did a test that was called the "Olds 350 test" where they ran a 350 cu in Olds V8 [at red-line, I think] till the oil became TWICE as viscous as new, around 8 hours I seem to remember. On the Amsoil synthetic they ran the test TWICE on the same oil, and it ONLY increased its viscosity by around 10%. That was about 1986 and I've run either Amsoil or Mobil1 in ALL my vehicles since.
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 02:35 PM
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NunoMt View Post
Last friday I went to the kawi dealer to do the 6000km maintnance. I asked to switch to full sintetic oil.
Full synthetic reminds me of congress...ya gotta watch out for their "smoke and mirrors."

The term full synthetic can also be full of smoke and mirrors.

Here is the down and dirty simple test: If the base stock was manufactured in the laboratory you have a true synthetic oil. Amsoil and Redline are a couple of examples or true synthetics. If the base stock was pumped out of the ground you have a dyno oil regardless of what you call it. There is a history of law suits here regarding what you can label as "synthetic." As a result many "synthetic" oils are actually dyno oils with the synthetic label.


This is not to say they are bad oils, they are actually very good oils that perform just about as good as the true synthetics. Their great performance is the result of a superior additive package the manufacturer blends with a good quality base stock.

Since most oils will provide all the protection your bike needs, the biggest determining factor often boils down to how your bike feels with a particular oil. How smoothly it shifts and how well the clutch works and feels.
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 01:28 PM
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Full synthetic reminds me of congress...ya gotta watch out for their "smoke and mirrors."....
I used to use Castrol Syntec until Car and Driver magazine exposed that it was 'dyno' oil in an article.

-
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by fasteddiecopeman View Post
I used to use Castrol Syntec until Car and Driver magazine exposed that it was 'dyno' oil in an article.

-
Yes indeed.

The following provides more of the story and another caution regarding Amsoil synthetic....Lawyers, Ugg.

"One thing people forget is that after the ruling that Castrol was not out of bounds calling Group III base oils "synthetic" every major oil company switched their base stock to the more profitable Group III. That is except for Mobil 1. Maybe Mobil refused to accept the ruling. No matter. What followed was a disaster for the average consumer especially those driving German cars still under warranty. Here's why:

People driving Germain cars, BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagen, were required to use certain spec oils to remain under the manufacturer's warranty. These same owners noticed the name "Castrol Synthetic" on the expensive oil the Dealer was installing and many decided to save money and have Castrol Syntec installed at a local lube center or maybe did it themselves at home. What was worse, some of these cars had extended oil drain intervals up to 20,000 miles. What followed was a lot of sludging and engine damage with a lot of people being told their warranty was voided. The reason there was so much confusion is the motor oil sold at the Dealership service department were European Group IV synthetics that had been certified by the manufacturer for use in those engines. Castrol Syntec not only is Group III, but not certified for use in those engines.

I hate to say it, but the use of Group III "synthetics" needs to be rated differently somehow. Not only are these motor oils petroleum, but being petroleum they must employ lots of VI additives for for the "W" or winter grade specs.

Before anyone jumps my case, I realize that Mobil 1 isn't the only Group IV based synthetic. It is the only major oil company synthetic to still be Group IV. I realize that other smaller companies like AMSOIL and Redline use the Group IV base oils. But the 4 motor oils made by AMSOIL with the "XL-7500" label are Group III based motor oils which is why they have the shorter oil drain and cheaper price. See how confusing this can be?"
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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 05:54 PM
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Back in the day when it was still possible to to sell a used murdercycle without bending over and cracking a smile, I used to flip a neglected ride once or twice a Winter, just for the joy of wrenching on it. Usually hunted down a bike that had been parked ten years when the old owner went thru his old health problems, strokes, cancer, or some such. One year, dunno which, I bought a 96 R1100R damn nice oilhead beemer that didn't fit the pattern. Instead, owner had racked up like 130k on the fine machine. Ran happy as a clam. Then he switched to synthetic. That's when every last seam began to leak. What a sieve. Everything from head gaskets to oil sight window spewed to valve covers. Turns out the original dino oil provided a necessary species of gunk that caulked all the seams. Synth cleaned out that gunk and seemed like it softened the gaskets as well. Can't tell you what gasket I didn't replace that winter. Drive seal had squirted on the dry clutch... other than that, just gaskets. Got me a nice ride out of her. Named her Hummer, cause, first off, she made a fine hum as she ran along the freeway, and, second off, every man craves a Hummer. About the time synth became common, you might run into that sort of prob. Like when ethanol used to eat carb diaphragms. Softened stuff up. Nowadays, arguments against synth have disappeared and everything is made synth proof. So it doesn't matter.

Still, it doesn't matter the other way round either. Guys like to worry over how synthetic us going to protect their engine for three lifetimes. Most no one at all keeps a bike for several hundred thou miles. You run into where you crave all these new features that come along way before you wring all the life out of it. Other than the rare one legged man, it really doesn't matter. The bike's gonna outlive your interest in it.

Not worth worrying about give or take a rabbit fart.
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 10:25 PM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by NunoMt View Post
Not trying to starts an oil thread... Just to report a fact...

Last friday I went to the kawi dealer to do the 6000km maintnance. I asked to switch to full sintetic oil. Right away the mechanic asked me If I felt the gear box very hard. Not a lot but is was definivly more arsh than my cb500x.

After the filter and oil exchange he told me to take it for a spin.

I could not belive the diference in the gear box. The noticeable "clunc" when changing gear, specially first gear is gone. The first gear is still a bit stiffer than the others, but compared to before it is butter smooth.

I didn't expect to notice such a diference. And I'm wondering If I felt this in the gear box If the same effect is being "apllied" to the rest of the motor...

Well this was just to report my recent experience. Ride safely.

Enviado do meu G3221 através do Tapatalk
Which brand name and viscosity grade of synthetic oil did they put in?
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-01-2018, 09:18 PM
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BTW was this 20/50 Oil or a different viscosity. Which oil is being recommended after all this discussion? Redline or Mobileone? Thanks Mark
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-01-2018, 11:48 PM
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BTW was this 20/50 Oil or a different viscosity. Which oil is being recommended after all this discussion? Red Line or Mobil 1? Thanks Mark
Red Line Motorcycle Oil, Maxima Extra/530RR, Bel-Ray EXS 4T, and Motul 7100 4T are your top of the line Ester based Group V synthetics... Bel-Ray EXP 4T, Maxima Pro Plus+ and Motul 5100 4T are Ester blends.

Mobil 1 Racing 4T, Amsoil Motorcycle, Castrol Power1 4T, Valvoline Synthetic 4 Stroke, etc, are also excellent Group IV PAO based synthetic motorcycle oils... All are recommended.
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Last edited by invader; 11-02-2018 at 12:00 AM.
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-02-2018, 03:33 PM
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I run (and have, for years...) Mobil1 15w-50 automobile oil, changed w/ filter every 5K miles (8K kms in Canada).

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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-06-2018, 07:44 AM
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I'm not as informed on oils, but, the Shell site leaves me the impression that Rotella T6 is full synthetic: https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/prod...synthetic.html And if it's on the internet, it has to be true...


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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-06-2018, 08:21 AM
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Same here.

Better to remain silent, and be thought a fool, than speak and remove all doubt.
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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-06-2018, 10:26 AM
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Don't want to get another battle going over oil brands, but I've been using Rotella T6 for my bikes for about 5 years now and am very happy with the results. The first bike was a Vulcan 1600 which had a very noisy engine and a hydraulic lifter which would periodically leak down and clatter until bike warmed up. After switching to Rotella T6, the Vulcan engine was notably quieter and the lifter never clattered again. Also the bike shifted and clutch engagement was much better afterwards.

I noticed the same improvement on shifting and clutch action on my Versys.

You can get it at Walmart for $19.97 for a gallon, which is also a bonus.
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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-05-2018, 02:34 AM
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Exclamation Diesel oil – is it the right choice for high performance gasoline engines?

MOTOR OIL ENGINEERING TEST DATA

Diesel Oil

… The average value for Thermal Breakdown among the conventional Diesel oils here, was 255*, which is 17* LOWER than among the conventional gas engine oils I’ve tested.

The average value for Thermal Breakdown among the synthetic Diesel oils here, was 267*, which is 15* LOWER than among the synthetic gas engine oils I’ve tested.

And as you can see with these Diesel oils above, zinc levels alone do NOT establish their wear prevention ranking. The zinc levels are randomly up and down, relative to the ranking order. So, zinc levels clearly have NOTHING to do with an oil’s protection capability or ranking order. Also, anyone who has followed my motor oil testing, probably noticed that these Diesel oil “Load Carrying Capacity/Film Strength” psi values are rather low, with an average value for the whole group of only 72,408 psi. This number would put an oil for gasoline engines, only in the MODEST PROTECTION category (60,000 to 75,000 psi).

Obviously since all these diesel oil numbers are so closely clustered together with only about a 20,000 psi range (compared to the gas engine oil numbers which have a much larger range of almost 60,000 psi), it is clear that the oil companies intentionally formulated them to be in this general range.

Diesel engines of this type are made very rugged and very durable for the long haul. And in order to accomplish that, the engine’s components are designed and sized to keep the part loading at a modest level. And of course, these engines are known primarily for their impressive low end torque under boost, but NOT for their high rpm HP. All that being the case, these oils don’t need to have a higher capability. And this type of Diesel engine typically takes a LOT OF OIL. So, cost becomes a real factor when changing oil. This means that no oil company is going to make their products way better than needed, because that would make their products too expensive to be competitive in the marketplace.


RECOMMENDATION FOR MOTORCYCLES:

Most motorcycle engines:

• Make far more power per cubic inch, than car engines.

• Rev far higher than car engines.

• Share the same oil for both the engine and transmission (which subjects the oil to considerably more mechanical shearing).

• Have wet clutches that also share the engine oil.

• Often get run much harder than most car engines.

So, most motorcycle engines are far harder on their motor oil than normal daily driven automobile engines are, which results in semi-severe usage, to severe usage of their motor oil. Therefore, I recommend the following to provide the best protection:

• Do NOT follow the ridiculously long 8,000 mile oil change interval typically found in motorcycle street bike Owner’s Manuals. That outrageously long interval is Marketing driven only to reduce Cost of Ownership numbers. It is NOT what is best for the engine, and was NOT driven by Engineering.

• For liquid cooled street motorcycles, use the range: 3,000 mile oil change interval if operated aggressively, up to a 4,000 mile oil change interval if operated modestly.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/
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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-05-2018, 02:59 AM
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"For liquid cooled street motorcycles, use the range: 3,000 mile oil change interval if operated aggressively, up to a 4,000 mile oil change interval if operated modestly."

I follow this ever since day 1... and still running like brand new.
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