Weak sounding starter despite new battery - Kawasaki Versys Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-21-2018, 08:23 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 15
Garage
Weak sounding starter despite new battery

I’ve got a 2016 v650 with oxford heated grips and an oem lighter plug I use to charge an iPhone. On a recent 280 mile trip I found after each stop my starter was sounding weaker and weaker. By the time I got home, barely enough juice to start. I put it back in the Optimate and it passed all the tests. I hooked up a multimeter and I get normal readings (12.4 at battery terms when stopped, 13.4 at idle, won’t go over 14.2 when revving.) Is it possible that these two accessories are drawing down faster than the system can recharge? I hope not because I was hoping to add some auxiliary lights as well!
Funkspieler is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-21-2018, 10:23 AM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kitchener Ontario
Posts: 6,448
10AMP HR Battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkspieler View Post
Iíve got a 2016 v650 with oxford heated grips and an oem lighter plug I use to charge an iPhone. On a recent 280 mile trip I found after each stop my starter was sounding weaker and weaker. By the time I got home, barely enough juice to start. I put it back in the Optimate and it passed all the tests. I hooked up a multimeter and I get normal readings (12.4 at battery terms when stopped, 13.4 at idle, wonít go over 14.2 when revving.) Is it possible that these two accessories are drawing down faster than the system can recharge? I hope not because I was hoping to add some auxiliary lights as well!
I would suggest getting your battery load tested once fully charged, you don't mention how many starts, the sustained RPM ( I assume most of your riding would be at or above 4000 RPM ) . Are you riding with the high beam on? Any additional lighting? Idle RPM should be 1350 to 1400 RPM, ( load testing is a must by a battery load tester), use a good digital voltmeter after you get confirmation that your battery is OK. At 1350 to 1400 RPM voltage should be 14 to 14.5 volts ( after warm up , off fast idle), if it isn't, try raising idle by 50 RPM, note change if any, report back here.

You may have charging problems, before I go there I want to hear back from you.
onewizard is offline  
post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-21-2018, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 15
Garage
Update and apologies for some incorrect figures. After 24 hours on the optimate the battery is fully recharged and reads 12.8v with engine off. 14.2 at idle and at 300” it’s around 14.8. The bike starts but it’s definitely doing the slow and hesitant crank that I usually associate with a dying battery. The is a 2016 bike with 6000 miles so I would be unhappy if the battery was dead at this point, but I may take it to my dealer and see what they can do under warranty. If I do get a new battery, I’ve heard that there are some really good lithium ion batteries out there that perform well and weigh less. Anyone using these and have feedback?
Funkspieler is offline  
 
post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-22-2018, 11:23 AM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kitchener Ontario
Posts: 6,448
lithium batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkspieler View Post
Update and apologies for some incorrect figures. After 24 hours on the optimate the battery is fully recharged and reads 12.8v with engine off. 14.2 at idle and at 300Ē itís around 14.8. The bike starts but itís definitely doing the slow and hesitant crank that I usually associate with a dying battery. The is a 2016 bike with 6000 miles so I would be unhappy if the battery was dead at this point, but I may take it to my dealer and see what they can do under warranty. If I do get a new battery, Iíve heard that there are some really good lithium ion batteries out there that perform well and weigh less. Anyone using these and have feedback?
See my post #11 --As to batteries, I use the original Yuasa AGM battery, usually get 5 to 6 years out it. Weight isn't a concern, if it was I wouldn't have the Trekker cases and Givi Top box.
https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...p+hour+lithium
onewizard is offline  
post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-29-2018, 07:48 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 15
Garage
Weak sounding starter despite new battery

I’m starting a new thread as a follow on to this one from last week

https://www.kawasakiversys.com/#/topics/217037

After replacing my battery with a new one, my problem remains. When I crank the starter, it cranks very slowly, just like it would if the battery was running down. It will generally start but it isn’t confidence inspiring. My old Ducati ST2 had this problem and there was a well known problem underspec’d wiring, as explained in this quote

“Condition: Bike is difficult to start, starts slow or not at all, sometimes fouls plugs. Takes multiple attempts to get it started. Rider has low confidence of bike starting.

The Cause: Underspec wire size plus brass or steel terminals throughout the starter circuit have created chokepoints to the current flow. Starter motor receives less current than it requires which necessitates long cranking times. The excess cranking depletes battery voltage below that required by the ignition system to start the bike. Multiple cranking events eventually allow the chemical reaction in the battery to create enough current to start the bike but battery is damaged by long discharge cycles.

The Bandaid Install new or larger battery - bike starts well until excess resistance in starter circuit degrades new battery.

The Solution Install a HICAP high current starter circuit that has the least possible resistance to current flow
* HICAP - outboards and replaces the OEM starting circuit that is riddled with chokepoints that impede current flow.
* * Pays for itself in reduced battery consumption and reduced starting system wear.”

Does anyone think I could have a similar issue? If so, what would be the procedure to test this?
Funkspieler is offline  
post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-29-2018, 10:52 AM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kitchener Ontario
Posts: 6,448
High Jacked Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkspieler View Post
I’m starting a new thread as a follow on to this one from last week

https://www.kawasakiversys.com/#/topics/217037

After replacing my battery with a new one, my problem remains. When I crank the starter, it cranks very slowly, just like it would if the battery was running down. It will generally start but it isn’t confidence inspiring. My old Ducati ST2 had this problem and there was a well known problem underspec’d wiring, as explained in this quote

“Condition: Bike is difficult to start, starts slow or not at all, sometimes fouls plugs. Takes multiple attempts to get it started. Rider has low confidence of bike starting.

The Cause: Underspec wire size plus brass or steel terminals throughout the starter circuit have created chokepoints to the current flow. Starter motor receives less current than it requires which necessitates long cranking times. The excess cranking depletes battery voltage below that required by the ignition system to start the bike. Multiple cranking events eventually allow the chemical reaction in the battery to create enough current to start the bike but battery is damaged by long discharge cycles.

The Bandaid Install new or larger battery - bike starts well until excess resistance in starter circuit degrades new battery.

The Solution Install a HICAP high current starter circuit that has the least possible resistance to current flow
* HICAP - outboards and replaces the OEM starting circuit that is riddled with chokepoints that impede current flow.
* * Pays for itself in reduced battery consumption and reduced starting system wear.”

Does anyone think I could have a similar issue? If so, what would be the procedure to test this?
I have copied some of your original posts from the other thread, I realize the thread was derailed so lets try again. You have a new battery, please state what you have, is it the AGM Yuasa ?

So the next step is fun, one of two things, I very much doubt it is the starter, first place I would put my money is the engine ground, extremely difficult to get at on the MK-3, ABS is in the way, so is the frame, believe it or not, the easiest access is doing a valve shim check with the throttle bodies removed ( don't think you want to do that. Access is from the clutch actuator side of the bike, with the plastic removed.

You really need to remove the bolt and clean away any oxide, as the starter uses the aluminum casting for the negative power, on my 07 I found heavy aluminum oxide under this connection, which happens to be the negative wire from the battery to engine aluminum ground connection.

Another simple test would be to connect a voltmeter across the starter solenoid , it will read battery voltage with the meter across the solenoid contacts, observe the voltage while the starter is engaged, it should read around 0.2 to 0.5 VDC, if you read above 1 volt your relay ( solenoid) is shot. This last test would be the simplest. Also I mentioned previously about checking engine grounds and frame grounds, on the MK-3 they are numerous, I recall something like 9 frame grounds.

Last edited by onewizard; 07-29-2018 at 10:54 AM.
onewizard is offline  
post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-29-2018, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 15
Garage
Hey that’s really good info! I pulled off the plastic til I got to the solenoid. Unplugged, steel worked and reattached all the contacts. Tried to run your test but I can’t see the voltmeter reading when trying to start because it starts up so fast I can’t register it. I think I had a loosening connection.
Funkspieler is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Versys Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome