Heavy shudder? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
 11Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-17-2018, 09:45 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Vincenzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 9
Heavy shudder?

Hi Guys & Gals

Before I spend my life saving at the local dealer I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction.
I have a 2014 V-650 with 18000 km on the clock. This Sunday after a spirited run I started getting a heavy Shudder when accelerating in 5th and 6th gear.

This only happens under throttle and more so two up. The Versys always had a mild shudder when accelerating but now the bike shakes/shudders violently and if I keep my foot under the shift lever I can feel the lever jumping up and down.

Things I've done:

New oil and oil filter 10w40 Motul
Adjusted , cleaned and lubed chain
Adjusted clutch cable
Checked for loose bolts/nuts
Searched this Forum and google to avail.
Have I burnt my clutch out or done more serious damage? Any advice is welcome.
Vincenzo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-17-2018, 05:07 PM
Super Moderator
 
fasteddiecopeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kelowna, BC - summer; Florence, AZ - winter
Posts: 17,140
At what speed/RPM are you accelerating in 5th gear?

Ed
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


'08 V AZ, '15 V650LT BC
Ride to D2D 2013, June '13

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Ride to D2D 2015, June '15

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Ride to D2D 2016, June '16

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fasteddiecopeman is offline  
post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-17-2018, 05:33 PM
Member
 
twowheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 3,330
Garage
It's got to be a fueling or spark issue. Most likely cause fuelling. As long as the engine is sound, which it should be with only 18K, it is most likely an electronic issue with a bad sensor or controller. Get dealer to diagnose problem but not fix it. See what they come back with first.

I have a higher mileage bike that has been ridden hard and no issues. This is unlikely to be related but do adjust the valves, they can be a bit tight around this mileage and higher mileage.

Is your air filter clean? Can your engine get enough air at high RPM? It's damn near impossible to burn an oil immersed clutch out on a bike like the Versys 650 unless the clutch was improperly adjusted without enough slack in the cable. You would know immediately if the clutch was slipping by the RPM fluctuating without corresponding changes in speed.

Last edited by twowheels; 07-17-2018 at 05:42 PM.
twowheels is offline  
 
post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-17-2018, 10:05 PM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,815
That would be the clutch slipping under load... Your clutch cable was never too tight? Did it always get JASO MA motorcycle oil?

You're not the first to have that happen. Most have simply upgraded the clutch springs with stiffer ones.

Barnett's clutch springs are about 20% stiffer than stock, whereas EBC clutch springs are said to be 10-15% stiffer. EBC's CSK7 clutch spring set (5) $12.99, and Barnett 501-50-05055 (MT-55-5) spring set $17.06

https://www.starcycle.com/clutch-spr...5-p-31123.html

Motorcycle Parts, Motorcycle Accessories – PhatPerfomanceParts.com

How to replace clutch springs:

https://www.riderforums.com/ninja-65...h-springs.html

It is possible to remove clutch cover without draining oil, by leaning it over more than side stand allows.
tennistime99 likes this.

Last edited by invader; 07-17-2018 at 10:15 PM.
invader is offline  
post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 06:11 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Vincenzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by fasteddiecopeman View Post
At what speed/RPM are you accelerating in 5th gear?
Throughout the rev range.
Vincenzo is offline  
post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 06:14 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Vincenzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by twowheels View Post
It's got to be a fueling or spark issue. Most likely cause fuelling. As long as the engine is sound, which it should be with only 18K, it is most likely an electronic issue with a bad sensor or controller. Get dealer to diagnose problem but not fix it. See what they come back with first.

I have a higher mileage bike that has been ridden hard and no issues. This is unlikely to be related but do adjust the valves, they can be a bit tight around this mileage and higher mileage.

Is your air filter clean? Can your engine get enough air at high RPM? It's damn near impossible to burn an oil immersed clutch out on a bike like the Versys 650 unless the clutch was improperly adjusted without enough slack in the cable. You would know immediately if the clutch was slipping by the RPM fluctuating without corresponding changes in speed.
Will check all the suggestions thanks. Appreciate it.
Vincenzo is offline  
post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 06:24 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Vincenzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
That would be the clutch slipping under load... Your clutch cable was never too tight? Did it always get JASO MA motorcycle oil?

You're not the first to have that happen. Most have simply upgraded the clutch springs with stiffer ones.

Barnett's clutch springs are about 20% stiffer than stock, whereas EBC clutch springs are said to be 10-15% stiffer. EBC's CSK7 clutch spring set (5) $12.99, and Barnett 501-50-05055 (MT-55-5) spring set $17.06

https://www.starcycle.com/clutch-spr...5-p-31123.html

Motorcycle Parts, Motorcycle Accessories Ė PhatPerfomanceParts.com

How to replace clutch springs:

https://www.riderforums.com/ninja-65...h-springs.html

It is possible to remove clutch cover without draining oil, by leaning it over more than side stand allows.
Always used Jaso Ma oil but the cable adjustment never felt right no matter how I adjusted it even after I took it to the dealer so your diagnosis is more than likely spot on but I'm no mechanic.

Going to try find some aftermarket springs here in South Africa which could take awhile. If/when I'm successful I will report back.

Thanks for all the advice. Appreciate it.
Vincenzo is offline  
post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 08:24 AM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,815
EBC # CSK007 is the current part number in Europe. (CSK7)

GBP 3.00 shipping to South Africa from Crymych, Pembrokeshire, United Kingdom. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kawasaki-...sid=m570.l1313
Vincenzo likes this.

Last edited by invader; 07-18-2018 at 08:27 AM.
invader is offline  
post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-19-2018, 09:07 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 1,444
Garage
What is the condition of the sprockets.
If the teeth are worn and hooked then under load and higher gears they tend to bind then snap out of the chain giving you a uneven shudder as the chain whips around the sprockets.
Gigitt is offline  
post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-20-2018, 01:56 AM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigitt View Post
What is the condition of the sprockets.
If the teeth are worn and hooked then under load and higher gears they tend to bind then snap out of the chain giving you a uneven shudder as the chain whips around the sprockets.
Drive chain slipping on a worn out countershaft sprocket? That would be quite extreme... In this case, it's actually the wet multiplate clutch which is slipping and shuddering when under increased loads.
invader is offline  
post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-20-2018, 01:58 PM
Member
 
TowerMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Biggar, Scotland.
Posts: 272
One end of the gear shift mechanism is mounted on the engine gearbox spline.
The other is mounted to the foot-peg hangers which are in turn rigidly mounted on the frame.

If you can feel the end of the gear leaver going up and down then there must be movement happening between these two points.

This can only be because the engine is moving in the frame if the foot peg hanger bolts are tight.

Recheck your back top and bottom engine frame mounts are properly done up tight


PS I had this on my Mk1 after 19,000 miles as the bottom mount had become loose over time.
Tightened with a long bar extension and was there was no more trouble

Richard
NightRider likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
at
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
TowerMan is offline  
post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-20-2018, 06:12 PM
Member
 
tommyvous59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: extreme south texas
Posts: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincenzo View Post
Hi Guys & Gals

Before I spend my life saving at the local dealer I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction.
I have a 2014 V-650 with 18000 km on the clock. This Sunday after a spirited run I started getting a heavy Shudder when accelerating in 5th and 6th gear.

This only happens under throttle and more so two up. The Versys always had a mild shudder when accelerating but now the bike shakes/shudders violently and if I keep my foot under the shift lever I can feel the lever jumping up and down.

Things I've done:

New oil and oil filter 10w40 Motul
Adjusted , cleaned and lubed chain
Adjusted clutch cable
Checked for loose bolts/nuts
Searched this Forum and google to avail.
Have I burnt my clutch out or done more serious damage? Any advice is welcome.
shudder happens at higher rpm and with increased load/two up. could be a lot of things, but could be lack of power due to fueling issue, air intake issue, combustion issue. i always try to rule out basics first. tighten engine bolts, clean airbox/air filter, change spark plugs, fresh gas, oil/filter change, tires balanced/wheels aligned, forks aligned. water in gas, use drying agent. fork oscillation happens at higher speeds too. then move up to from there to more complicated issues.
tommyvous59 is offline  
post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-20-2018, 08:29 PM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,815
RPM's would obviously go up if the clutch was slipping... Beside loose motor mount bolts, make sure your chain's tension doesn't vary too much as you rotate rear wheel due to an unevenly stretched chain.
invader is offline  
post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-21-2018, 01:47 PM
Member
 
tommyvous59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: extreme south texas
Posts: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyvous59 View Post
shudder happens at higher rpm and with increased load/two up. could be a lot of things, but could be lack of power due to fueling issue, air intake issue, combustion issue. i always try to rule out basics first. tighten engine bolts, clean airbox/air filter, change spark plugs, fresh gas, oil/filter change, tires balanced/wheels aligned, forks aligned. water in gas, use drying agent. fork oscillation happens at higher speeds too. then move up to from there to more complicated issues.
if rear wheel shaking, add rear wheel hub rubber vibration dampers damaged.
tommyvous59 is offline  
post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-05-2018, 04:58 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Vincenzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 9
Hey Guys, Just an update. A technician finally figured it out. It was worn rubber engine mountings/ dampers. Donít know how or why it failed so soon.
invader, onewizard and Duffy like this.
Vincenzo is offline  
post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-05-2018, 05:13 AM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincenzo View Post
Hey Guys, Just an update. A technician finally figured it out. It was worn rubber engine mountings/ dampers. Don’t know how or why it failed so soon.

The newer Versys 650's are made in Thailand, with parts perhaps sourced from China... Their rubber quality may not be up to over 4 years of extreme temperature rigors in Africa, with salty seashore air. My 2007 was made in Japan.

Last edited by invader; 11-05-2018 at 05:30 AM.
invader is offline  
post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-05-2018, 11:45 PM
jpd
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Gloucester, VA. & Manassas VA.
Posts: 148
Garage
Interesting that the item added to prevent vibration was the thing that caused it.
Are they able to be replaced by the owner or do you have to have the dealer do it?
Does the engine have to be removed?

Jeff

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jpd is offline  
post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-06-2018, 02:55 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Vincenzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpd View Post
Interesting that the item added to prevent vibration was the thing that caused it.
Are they able to be replaced by the owner or do you have to have the dealer do it?
Does the engine have to be removed?
I had to cover the cost of replacement. The engine had to come out cost me +- 9 hours of labor + parts. To add insult to injury they didn't tighten my radiator hose clamp, leaked all the fluid out. Left me stranded in a very dodgy area. One of our Lady bikers here was robbed and killed 3 weeks ago in the same area but that is a story for another time.

Had to use Toyota long life coolant which is all I had at home. Think it will be a problem?
Vincenzo is offline  
post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-06-2018, 02:57 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Vincenzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
The newer Versys 650's are made in Thailand, with parts perhaps sourced from China... Their rubber quality may not be up to over 4 years of extreme temperature rigors in Africa, with salty seashore air. My 2007 was made in Japan.
Makes sense. Only the thing is the vibes are so heavy now cant see out my mirrors. Hope it settles after a few mile.
Vincenzo is offline  
post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-06-2018, 07:17 AM
Member
 
16VGTIDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Drumbo, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 251
Garage
Grab an inspection mirror and a bright flashlight. Then have a good look at the engine mounts from multiple angles. I've read that it is possible to have the engine sitting crooked in the frame, which can result in the engine case touching the frame and producing the vibrations you describe.

Good luck!

2011 V650 in Black, well accessorized.
16VGTIDave is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Versys Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome