Series Regulator / Why Bother?? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-25-2018, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
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Series Regulator / Why Bother??

Noob question , would someone please instuct me as to the need for a Polaris regulator? I own a 2008 V. Do I need to be concerned? Why wouldn't I just be happy with the one that came with my bike?

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post #2 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-25-2018, 05:52 PM
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Series Regulator / Why Bother??

Polaris or series regulator

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Last edited by onewizard; 10-13-2018 at 01:17 PM.
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post #3 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-25-2018, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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Wip?? Work in progress?
That's not how I titled my post
Please explain

Randy
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post #4 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-26-2018, 08:17 AM Thread Starter
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The answer is not unlike asking someone what time is it, and being told how to build a watch.
From the the material provided, I understand that the V stator is prone to burning out and there are multiple ways to fix it. I am presuming that the best solution is installing a volt meter and when the reading starts to drop below 12 volts, you'd better get home asap.
I am still wondering if installing the Polaris regulator will prevent the stock stator from burning or it just an alternative upgrade?

Randy
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post #5 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-26-2018, 08:44 AM
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My meager understanding of the situation is that the stock system is designed to run at full capacity all the time, which seems to be a cheap & dirty way of doing things. If I understand the logic of the Polaris system is that it only gives what is demanded/needed, putting much less stress on the charging system. One system is prone to fail, one is more forgiving.

Of course I may be wrong...again.
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post #6 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-26-2018, 11:27 AM
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I don't like repeating something that has already been extremely well documented on this forum. Here is my link
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post #7 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-26-2018, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyjaco View Post
The answer is not unlike asking someone what time is it, and being told how to build a watch.
From the the material provided, I understand that the V stator is prone to burning out and there are multiple ways to fix it. I am presuming that the best solution is installing a volt meter and when the reading starts to drop below 12 volts, you'd better get home asap.
I am still wondering if installing the Polaris regulator will prevent the stock stator from burning or it just an alternative upgrade?

Randy
Randy - here's a pic of my '08 when the stator burned up near Gila Bend. FWIW - as soon as I noticed the voltage 'drop' (I have a voltage indicator on its dash), I turned everything OFF that I could, then 'dashed' back E towards home. I got about 10 miles before the volts were dropping to where I figured I only had a few minutes left before the FI quit, so I pulled over and called for a tow.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1180371 copy.JPG (281.1 KB, 71 views)

Ed
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'08 V AZ, '15 V650LT BC
Ride to D2D 2013, June '13

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Ride to D2D 2015, June '15

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post #8 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-26-2018, 10:59 PM
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The first time I came across these 3 phase A/C oil cooled shunt systems was in 1977 with the Suzuki GS series-stators were frying-if it opened just the stator went out- a short would take the stator regulator and sometimes the light blubs-Suzuki's answer was oil related-it seems if the oil was old dirty low or the wrong weight the stator would over heat-they claimed if 20/50w oil was used-these were air cooled engines-the thicker oil could not carry away the excess heat fast enough so use 10/40w CCI Suzuki's brand all year long and only use 20/50 if the bike burned oil in the summer months-this worked no more problems-and oil burning in the summer with Suzuki's CCI 10/40w was way down over any other oil

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post #9 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 08:29 AM
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The first time I came across these 3 phase A/C oil cooled shunt systems was in 1977 with the Suzuki GS series-stators were frying-if it opened just the stator went out- a short would take the stator regulator and sometimes the light blubs-Suzuki's answer was oil related-it seems if the oil was old dirty low or the wrong weight the stator would over heat-they claimed if 20/50w oil was used-these were air cooled engines-the thicker oil could not carry away the excess heat fast enough so use 10/40w CCI Suzuki's brand all year long and only use 20/50 if the bike burned oil in the summer months-this worked no more problems-and oil burning in the summer with Suzuki's CCI 10/40w was way down over any other oil
I run mobil 1 20/50, and I can tell you that there is some truth in what you stated about taking the heat away, however, many of the stator failures were from a short at the connection or a short between cross over connections, this isn't caused from poor heat conduction, the primary cause is insulation break down and expansion, both directly related to the shunt regulator. Every time the engine goes above 4000 RPM for a sustained 10 minutes or more the stator heats up due to maximum output, each time the engine is at idle for 5 minutes or more the stator cools down as the output is reduced to base load.

Giving this some thought, let us say that some Kawasaki dealer starts offering a optional series regulator for $200 more, part of that offer they include a 5 year warranty on the stator, provided only the accessory load circuit is never exceeded ( 5 amp fuse).

So the question asked is why spend $200 more , the salesman says something to the effect that the stator never exceeds 60% of maximum output, under normal conditions .
Why could they offer extended warranty? Simply put, the stator is guaranteed to run cooler, a fraction of heat cool cycles of the shunt regulator and not the extremes of heat cool temperatures. So for the price of 2 tanks of fuel you too could upgrade your system using a used Polaris regulator.

Caution, if your stator has already started to fail, chances are good that eventually it will take the Polaris regulator out with it unless you install a accurate voltage indicator like neat little voltmeter

, once it starts going, best to park the bike and replace the stator, a couple failures have been caused by the 3 phase socket where one connector failed, what resulted was the other two phases carried the full load, called a single phase condition, the regulator ( shunt or series) cannot handle 23 amp single phase, a early sign is being below 12.8 VDC at idle but at 14.0 at or above 6000 RPM.

I hope I have clarified some of the technical aspects of this thread.
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post #10 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
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Guess I will have to stick with the volt meter. The change to the Polaris regulator seems to be a little complicated for the electronically challenged.
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post #11 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
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I would be great if someone would do a video B-)

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post #12 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 07:03 PM
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Guess I will have to stick with the volt meter. The change to the Polaris regulator seems to be a little complicated for the electronically challenged.
The 2008 is easier than the 2015, there are 3 ways to do it now, basically I recommend getting the triumph harness, if you can solder or crimp, it is fairly simple now. Plus I am on this forum almost every day, questions can PM me.
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post #13 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-28-2018, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
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Well I just installed OneWizard's volt meter and I am getting odd readings. When I just turn on the ignition it does its search and the line of LEDs goes to 100 percent and the bottom green light comes on. When I start the engine, the LED line does its search to 90% and keeps searching. The bottom green light never comes on. Revving the engine has no effect. It just keeps blinking green over the LED line. Kind of maddening.
The VOM across the battery terminals says:
12.85 volts with ignition off
12.25 volts with ignition on
14.97 to 15 volts with motor running.
Anybody got any ideas as to what might be happening?
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post #14 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-28-2018, 06:21 PM
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Neat Little Voltmeter

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post #15 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-28-2018, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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I am not getting any reds or yellows at the same time. When riding there are times that it will stop scanning and present a row of green lights. But changes of rpm will cause it to start scanning again. There are times when I start the engine that the gauge will stay constant, but as soon as I increase the rpm, it will start scanning again. The thing that concerns me is that when the engine is running I seldom get a lower green light. But I am not getting a red or yellow either. So basically I have no idea of what the gauge is telling me and the instructions are pretty vague.
I presuming that with the engine producing 15 volt is that the guage is trying to determine if it is a 12 or 24 volt system.

Randy
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post #16 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-29-2018, 09:27 AM
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I am not getting any reds or yellows at the same time. When riding there are times that it will stop scanning and present a row of green lights. But changes of rpm will cause it to start scanning again. There are times when I start the engine that the gauge will stay constant, but as soon as I increase the rpm, it will start scanning again. The thing that concerns me is that when the engine is running I seldom get a lower green light. But I am not getting a red or yellow either. So basically I have no idea of what the gauge is telling me and the instructions are pretty vague.
I presuming that with the engine producing 15 volt is that the guage is trying to determine if it is a 12 or 24 volt system.

Randy
If yours is the same as my photo, you have a defective one or a loose connection, bad ground.The bottom green is on even when the motor is off, i.e. if I stall it with the headlight on, eventually I will drop below 12 volts, at that point it goes off. Like I said, check your wiring, the wire on that is around 28 to 30 gauge, I soldered the ends to get more surface area.

Last edited by onewizard; 04-29-2018 at 09:34 AM.
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post #17 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-29-2018, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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I get a bottom green when the engine is off, but not when it is running. When running I get no bottom light at all.

What did you connect your wires to? I connected the red to a red on the left side small headlight. I could not get to the red ignition. I connected the black to the frame. Shouldn't that work?



Randy

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post #18 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-29-2018, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyjaco View Post
Well I just installed OneWizard's volt meter and I am getting odd readings. When I just turn on the ignition it does its search and the line of LEDs goes to 100 percent and the bottom green light comes on. When I start the engine, the LED line does its search to 90% and keeps searching. The bottom green light never comes on. Revving the engine has no effect. It just keeps blinking green over the LED line. Kind of maddening.
The VOM across the battery terminals says:
12.85 volts with ignition off
12.25 volts with ignition on
14.97 to 15 volts with motor running.
Anybody got any ideas as to what might be happening?

Charging voltage is much more stable with my Compufire series type R/R. It varied by over 4 times as much and was also a bit excessive with stock shunt R/R at 14.65V~14.90V. It's now always between 14.38V and 14.44V (14.44V idle) with the Compufire.

Stator cover which used to be at 205F~219F with stock R/R, is now at 184F~187F with Compufire, while left cylinder head is at 197F~204F in the same ambient temperature... Stator cover temperature is now more stable at about 26F cooler on average, and up to about 32F cooler.

With stock shunt R/R, stator is always operating at maximum possible output by shunting all unused current. Load reduction with series type R/R is in fact quite significant.
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post #19 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-29-2018, 09:58 PM
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All that reduced load and charging magnetic resistance at the stator unleashed some parasitic hp loss... The Versys is now slightly more powerful and more fuel efficient as I'm now wasting less gasoline producing wasted electrical energy and heat.
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post #20 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-30-2018, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by invader View Post
Charging voltage is much more stable with my Compufire series type R/R. It varied by over 4 times as much and was also a bit excessive with stock shunt R/R at 14.65V~14.90V. It's now always between 14.38V and 14.44V (14.44V idle) with the Compufire.

Stator cover which used to be at 205F~219F with stock R/R, is now at 184F~187F with Compufire, while left cylinder head is at 197F~204F in the same ambient temperature... Stator cover temperature is now more stable at about 26F cooler on average, and up to about 32F cooler.

With stock shunt R/R, stator is always operating at maximum possible output by shunting all unused current. Load reduction with series type R/R is in fact quite significant.
What model Compufire did you use? Would it be the same for a 2008? How difficult was the install ? Did it come with instructions for the V or did you have to figure it out for yourself?

Thanks
Randy
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