Lucas fuel treatment - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-26-2012, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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Lucas fuel treatment

I have some Lucas fuel treatment, that I run in my Hemi in the winter months.
It says that it helps keep fuel injectors clean, and conditions the fuel (Whatever that means)

Just wondering with winter coming on (I plan on riding through the winter months, not just storing it) if it would be alright to put some in my V?
Has anyone else used it?
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-26-2012, 02:16 PM
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If I recall correctly these types of treatments are not formulated for motorcycle engines, but I'm sure someone with much more knowledge about these things can chime in with details.

To me all of these "treatments" are no different than snake oil.


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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-26-2012, 07:09 PM
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I'd try it out on the cruiser with the loud pipes parked down the street first. Just don't get caught.

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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-26-2012, 07:13 PM
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I add 1 ounce per 10 US gallons of the Lucas Fuel Treatment in every tankfull of ethanol-free 91 pump octane (95 RON) gasoline. I use it often in my car too, and it more than pays for itself in improved fuel efficiency, especially since I get it in 4-gallon cases. Power increase is also notable... There are testimonials from other motorcyclists too.

So to answer your question, yes you certainly can use it in the Versys. I like using only half of the 2oz per 10 US gallons recommended dosage.

Lucas does also sell Fuel Stabilizer to preserve gasoline upon storage, although I don't feel the need for any in my premium fuel with my tank stored in unheated shed over the cold winter.

http://www.lucasoil.com/products/dis...show&headTitle

They now have Safeguard™ Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers for use with ethanol based fuels, which is pretty interesting too.

http://www.lucasoil.com/products/dis...how&headTitle=

Last edited by invader; 09-27-2012 at 12:58 AM.
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 09:56 PM
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I use Lucas Ethanol treatment in all my small engines, including my V. My lawn mowers, weedeater, and leaf blower got to the point of not running. I added 1 oz. to five gallons of 87 octane and they all started running like new. I'm a firm believer in using ethanol treatment. My results were immediate and obvious. That's the only fuel treatment I've ever used, so I can't comment on any others.


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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 10:57 PM
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Been using it for years now. My Yukon and Subaru get the Lucas every three tanks. My street and dirtbikes get it when I remember to. I'd say at least once a month. I predose the can I fill my mower and trimmer with. It doesn't hurt anything. This is a fuel system and top end cleaner.

Its the over the counter oil additives I question. With everything bathed in one oil, you gotta be mindful of adding stuff to your motorcycle crankcase.
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 11:28 PM
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I've had good results with Seafoam (in the intake and in the fuel), but once a tank with Redline injector cleaner cured a car misfire that a tank with Seafoam hadn't so I switched. Maybe Redline is better, or maybe it would have taken two tanks of any cleaner, but I use Redline now. Never tried Lucas though.

I think that stuff is helpful when clogged injector problems develop, but it seems like a good idea to use occasionally to prevent them as well.
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 09:54 AM
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Okay.. I decided to buy some snake oil.. er.. um.. fuel treatment. I went to the store to make my purchase and found that it comes concentrated for going into 21 gallons of fuel. Without taking a measuring cup with me to the gas station... what "rule of thumb" quantity are you guys adding to your V at fill up?


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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zatx View Post
Okay.. I decided to buy some snake oil.. er.. um.. fuel treatment. I went to the store to make my purchase and found that it comes concentrated for going into 21 gallons of fuel. Without taking a measuring cup with me to the gas station... what "rule of thumb" quantity are you guys adding to your V at fill up?
Just sarted using this one, (You can't hardly find fuel around here without ethanol in it)

http://www.lucasoil.com/products/dis...how&headTitle=

It comes in a 16 oz. bottle, with 1 oz. graduations. It is one ounce per 5 gallons. So I just put an ounce per fill up. Close enough it says you can't overtreat so I figure I am at least in the ball park.
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 10:18 PM
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In Ontario, it is no longer possible to purchase road gasoline from a consumer pump that can be guaranteed not to contain ethanol. I know that it used to be possible, and I know the internet is full of forum posts swearing it is still possible, but the reality is - it isn't. All the refineries add ethanol, and if the blend can take it, or requires it to make the octane spec, then it gets added. All grades, all brands.

Consumer pump gas already contains some very effective additives, designed to keep engines and their fuel delivery systems in good shape. In general, gasoline contains an additive package that contains a detergent, a dispersant, an anticorrosive, and an anti-oxidant.

Ethanol is in general good for performance in an engine designed to use it - the only downside being a slight decrease in mileage, often offest by an increase in fuel-use efficiency (power). It's an octane improver, flame front stabiliser, etc.. And freshly-blended gasoline containing ethanol does not in general have any effect on smaller, older engines that weren't designed with E10 in mind.

Storage can cause trouble with any fuel. Fuels containing ethanol present an extra challenge for a stabiliser.

Gasoline Stabilisers designed for fuel storage contain primarily oxygen scavengers, emulsifiers, and pH buffer chemicals. They work quite well, and are worth using.
Oxygen scavengers grab the oxygen at the fuel/air interface, and try to prevent slow oxidation of the fuel during storage, which can cause the formation of gums and varnishes, that can cause deposits in small passages. These stabilisers are quite effective.
Emulsifiers keep things mixed together. There is the problem of moisture control, water which can infiltrate fuel due to heat/cool cycles, drawing in moist air, and then having the water in that air drop out as condensation on cool surfaces, and into the fuel. Water can contribute to unwanted chemical reactions in gasoline, again leading to deposit formation. Ethanol can become acidic if it grabs enough water... and wet ethanol doesn't burn very well. In extreme cases, if the ethanol grabs enough water, it can actually drop out of solution and form a water layer in the bottom of your tank. Bad. So some of the stabilisers contain chemicals that keep the water in solution, and mitigate some of the degradation of the fuel that way.
pH buffers keep the pH of anything water-borne in the fuel neutral.

There may be some other additives, but they don't do much except make the ingredient list look impressive and increase the price.

After-market fuel additives designed for daily use are completely different from stabilisers. Most contain nothing more than a little bit more of the very same additives that have already been added to the gasoline at the refinery - along with a solvent, which contributes nothing. These after-market additives have to be this way - If they contained anything else, the manufacturer would risk chemical incompatability with the additives already in the gas, and lots of bad things could happen... beware of daily-use additives that claim power increases, better mileage, etc. I have never seen one of these additives that did much of anything, in a test setting.

Cleaners - injector cleaners, fuel rail "flushes," etc - additives meant to be used occasionally - like for one tank of gas every 20,000 km or so - are again very specially designed. They aren't generally meant to be used daily, and they generally aren't meant to stay in your tank very long. Again, for compatability reasons.

I've seen the tests in the research labs, and I'm very familiar with fuels and additives.
I do use Fuel Storage Stabilisers in my bikes and cars that I store for winter.
I don't use daily additives. Even we in the "snake oil" business know snake oil when we see it. If you use them, and you see a difference in performance, I'd look for a fundamental problem somewhere...
I do use injector cleaners. Once per year in my vehicles that are no longer under warranty. They work. But again, if I was to actually notice a difference in performance after I used a "tune-up in a can," I'd look further for problems...
I always buy my fuel from a name-brand seller, one that sees a lot of traffic. Fresh fuel is good fuel. Premium is the fuel that most retailers sell the least of, most likely to lay in their tanks longest... and is most likely to suffer additive package failure, evaporative losses, "stale-gas" syndrome, etc... so if your vehicle doesn't require it, why buy it?

Just my opinion...

Last edited by visitor zero; 10-04-2012 at 10:23 PM.
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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 10:34 PM
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Nice info, Visitor Zero. Thanks. Mod should make your post a sticky!

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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 07:13 AM Thread Starter
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Yes very good info visitor zero.
While I agree with almost all of it. I have a toyota corolla that has 129,000 miles on it, had never put any kinda of fuel stabilizer/fuel injector cleaner in it.
Added some and the increase in power was nothing short of phenomenal, I don't think there was any underlying problem other then I had some crusty fuel injectors.
Put the same stuff in my 09 V, with a couple of thousand miles on it, cannot tell any difference.
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 08:34 AM
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Sorry, it's my poor writing style that can cause confusion.

Cleaners are very specifically formulated to do what they say they do - quickly clean your fuel system, and to a smaller extent, the combustion area of your engine. Most are very effective at doing their job, and if your fuel system has some deposits, these cleaners work very well, and some manufacurers actually recommend their use. NOT snake oil.

It is very possible that if your fuel system has any deposits or restrictions, that a can of this through your engine may very well produce an immediate and noticeable difference in performance or mileage. Have a good look at your fuel filter after use... you may want to change it.

But cleaners are pretty agressive chemicals, and you don't want them laying in your tank or fuel system very long. They can contain some strong chemicals that may not be compatible with some materials, or chemicals in your fuel. Over time, they can cuase trouble.

So - pour 'em in, and put them through your engine on a long trip, if you can.

Summary -

Stabilisers - NOT Snake oil. Use 'em. I drain the tanks in my precious stored vehicles in spring and put the stabilised gas through something that isn't all that critical. Like my lawn mower. Even if it runs a bit rough, the grass still gets cut. Probably overkill.

Carb/Fuel Injector Cleaners - NOT Snake Oil. Use with care, follow instructions.

Fuel "Treatments" that claim increased octane, horsepower, mileage, acceleration, extended component life, more attractive to the opposite sex, etc. - MOST LIKELY Snake Oil. Use only if your wallet is too thick to sit on comfortably.
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry, it's my poor writing style that can cause confusion.

Cleaners are very specifically formulated to do what they say they do - quickly clean your fuel system, and to a smaller extent, the combustion area of your engine. Most are very effective at doing their job, and if your fuel system has some deposits, these cleaners work very well, and some manufacurers actually recommend their use. NOT snake oil.

It is very possible that if your fuel system has any deposits or restrictions, that a can of this through your engine may very well produce an immediate and noticeable difference in performance or mileage. Have a good look at your fuel filter after use... you may want to change it.

But cleaners are pretty agressive chemicals, and you don't want them laying in your tank or fuel system very long. They can contain some strong chemicals that may not be compatible with some materials, or chemicals in your fuel. Over time, they can cuase trouble.

So - pour 'em in, and put them through your engine on a long trip, if you can.

Summary -

Stabilisers - NOT Snake oil. Use 'em. I drain the tanks in my precious stored vehicles in spring and put the stabilised gas through something that isn't all that critical. Like my lawn mower. Even if it runs a bit rough, the grass still gets cut. Probably overkill.

Carb/Fuel Injector Cleaners - NOT Snake Oil. Use with care, follow instructions.

Fuel "Treatments" that claim increased octane, horsepower, mileage, acceleration, extended component life, more attractive to the opposite sex, etc. - MOST LIKELY Snake Oil. Use only if your wallet is too thick to sit on comfortably.


Visitor Zero:
I feel you have a great understaning of this issue. So I want to ask for my own benefit what would be your view on one that like I am listing. That touts itself as a CLEANER, and a STABLILIZER, and CONDITIONER? Run it through a tankful every so often and let it go at that, or continue to add periodcally say every other tankful?
http://www.lucasoil.com/products/dis...how&headTitle=

As always your knowledge on this subject will be greatly appreciated.
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-06-2012, 09:57 AM
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I know Lucas, I'm familiar with their products - and the chemicals they use in their products. Lucas buys their chemicals from others, and has their products blended and packaged by custom blenders. Just like Amsoil... They own very little of the technology - they just license it.

Although I'm sure they work well enough, I'm not a fan of anyone's fuel additives if they make dubious claims in their marketing... here's an example in the copy for that additive you provide a link for...

" Combats deposits and protects your engine oil lubricants from the harmful effects of alcohol combustion"

The highlighted area is mine.

Really? What harmful effects are they talking about? And how would a fuel conditioner protect your oil? Under normal conditions? Really? Zero basis in fact, and zero real-world requirement for that kind of protection.

Oh, I'm sure they have some sort of data from some sort of test designed to show that the copy is accurate. But who needs it? So why claim it?

And Lucas products tend to be a bit expensive.

Since they all contain basically the same chemicals, I use on-sale, cheap, big-name store brands of stabilisers and cleaners. I don't use fuel "conditioners" - modern, fresh fuel doesn't require conditioning to burn properly, if your engine and attendant systems are in good order.

And I'm not a fan of a product that claims to do it all, like the one in your link. Because, in general, stabilising, cleaning, etc, is being accomplished by the additives in your gasoline on a day-to-day basis.

I buy mine from Canadian Tire. I know where they get their products, they're good quality. They work as well as anything else. They often come from the same tank, in the same blend plant as the expensive ones. The difference may just be the packaging, in many cases.

So - my advice is to buy the least expensive product that doesn't make grandiose claims.
Buy the product specifically formulated for the job you want to accomplish - anything else will likely be a compromise, and do everything less efficiently, or with needless expense.
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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-06-2012, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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I know that this is just an Anecdotal observation, but between 2 differnt brand name fuel injector cleaners, I noticed significant difference in viscosity, and smell. One quite thicker, almost oil like in texture, with very low oder. The other almost the viscosity of water(Very low specific gravity), with the smell of a highly refined petrol product that in all likely hood has a high vapor pressure.
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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-06-2012, 07:35 PM
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Fill tank with clean fuel. Run it.

Repeat.

Clean fuel,
Clean air
Clean oil.

Many smiles.

I add nothing.

David
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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-07-2012, 09:59 AM
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On a side note ethanol-free gas can be found at least in the states, you just have to search for it, if you're lucky and live near a port you can usually gas up at the Marina where ethanol-free fuel is more common. pure-gas.org is a good resource for locating these stations.
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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-08-2012, 12:40 AM
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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-08-2012, 10:11 AM
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Lovely, well-designed site. Most of the information is actually true, too! But the vast majority of consumers will never see ANY of these problems with what passes for regular use.

Remember the old "Slick 50" ads? You could treat your engine, drain the oil, then go for a drive? Great - but who actually ever needed that kind of protection?

That site spends a lot of time trying to convince you of the hazards of ethanol-containing fuels - that are only apparent in severe service, long storage, ultra-high humidity atmospheres, or with equipment not designed for service in engines that were designed for use in a regulatory environment that allows - or even requires - the use of oxygenates in fuels. In some regions, since the 1980's.

Plus... they sell test kits and additives designed to identify, then mitigate most of these "problems..." If someone has their hand out for your wallet, be careful of scare tactics...

I get a kick out of their recommendation to remove the evil ethanol, then adjust the octane in the fuel with an "octane booster."

Let me tell ya - the ONLY octane-increasing additive that you - the average consumer - can safely buy and use is.... wait for it... an Alcohol! Ethanol, Methanol, and Isopropyl alcohol are the most common chemicals in over-the-counter octane boosters. All the rest of the ingredients do something else. Often nothing good or required.

You can't buy anything else without a very special license, because all the rest of the octane boosters are seriously toxic. As in kill-ya-next week after exposure today toxic. Contact, inhaled, looked-at the wrong way, you name it. Containment-suit toxic. Like lead, ferinstance - the additive is called Tetra-ethyl lead. Most have NO IDEA how toxic that stuff is, and the extreme handling precautions required to use this stuff safely at a refinery or lab.

So - first that site tells ya to remove the alcohol, cuz it's so bad... then add it back in to increase the octane... OK...

Yes - there can be problems with ethanol-containing fuels. The vast majority of them arise from improper storage - at the station, or in your garage. Water infiltration into the storage tanks is the most common issue. Whether from condensation or run-off from rainfall, whatever the source, excess water in a storage tank is bad news, always was, even before ethanol. So buy your fuel from a station that sells a lot of fuel - it's most likely to have fresh fuel.

There's 3 things that cause trouble for fuels.

1. Time. The more time that passes for a fuel in a tank, the more degradation of the fuel. So - buy it, then use it. Most fuels are good for about 3 months in a cool, dry place, out of strong light.

2. Temperature. Constant, cool-ish temperatures are good. 60F is ideal. Excursions/swings of temperature from hot to cold will hasten degradation. The more excursions, the wider the temperature spread, the worse it will be.

3. Treatment. That means additives. The original additives in the fuel are put there to mitigate degradation of the fuel - the more time that passes, the more temperature excursions, the quicker these additves will be "used up" - and fail, allowing degration to occur.

Hope this helps, or is at least of interest..
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