Bike won't stay on after jump start! - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-15-2012, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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Bike won't stay on after jump start!

Hey all - not sure if this is the right place to post or not but here it goes...

So, I should start by saying, its been over a month since I've driven for various reasons. So last week I went to go for a ride (it had been left uncovered and rained on numerous times) and it wouldn't start. It had a hard time going through the pre-start (sweep, LCD reset), however it would get to normal starting position after a couple seconds. I tried to start it (in neutral on kickstand) and it just goes 'click'. It sounds kind of like a relay making a really hard reset. When that happens the LCD goes blank. Give it some time, and eventually (2-3 minutes) it would be ready again.

So I figure after some thinking, that the most likely thing is the battery. Fast forward to just today, and I go to boost it off my car. Success! I leave it running for a while (2 minutes or so) and figure I will disconnect it and let it run to charge up (does that even work?). As soon as I break the boosting circuit it dies again. Start it again, leave it on for a while and rev it up to 3k rpm and remove? same thing.

I'm starting to think that the alternator or some other thing is causing this bike to a) loose a charge; b) not charge the battery at all. Its possible that my last successful ride completely killed the battery?.

I don't know if it's relevant but I dropped the bike on the left side at about 10 kph 3 months ago.

I would definitely appreciate some pointers if any of you have had the a similar issue.

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Last edited by robnb; 09-15-2012 at 03:31 PM.
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-15-2012, 04:32 PM
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What kind of car, and was the car running?
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-15-2012, 04:54 PM
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Sounds like your battery is toast. Get a tester on it and see if it will hold a charge.


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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-15-2012, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones View Post
Sounds like your battery is toast. Get a tester on it and see if it will hold a charge.
I'd agree with this as an accurate assessment. Today I had to change the battery on my (new to me) BMW K75S. The battery in it was "a couple of years old" when I bought the bike and a few days ago, after sitting for several and several more days wouldn't crank with enough juice to start the engine.

I gave up trying to bring it back to life and installed an Odyssey AGM (from Batterymart.com). It's not cheap but it's stated life expectancy with ordinary care is 5 to 7 years. The old girl fired up almost before I punched the starter button! Thank you Odyssey.

My Versys has a sealed battery and while we're away from our Texas bikes it has a Battery Minder Plus (Amazon.com) connected to it. It features computer controlled charge, float and desulfation modes and can be left connected endlessly (well, except when riding unless you have a really long exension cord).

Even after several months of being alone and unloved, the V fires without hesitation. It must like me.

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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-15-2012, 07:38 PM
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Depending on how old the battery is, charging may work, I would suggest disconnecting one post of the battery and hooking a motorcycle charger to it. 12 hours should do it, then try starting the bike, it is possible that the stator is toast and the regulator could also be damaged, that is the reason to disconnect one of the battery connections.The regulator and alternator are connected to the battery all the time, if damaged, it will drain the battery.
Second thing is you should never jump start the bike and ride it, unless you plan on replacing the battery, and it is a matter of getting home, the alternator will try and charge the battery with whatever is left over of the loads of the bike. Below 3000 RPM the alternator will put out about 14 amp, not enough to run everything and charge your dead battery.
One last thing you could try is to jump start the bike with the battery disconnected, adjust your idle screw to idle at 2000 RPM after warm up, take your jumper off after warm up, if the bike continues to run, alternator is ok.

Last edited by onewizard; 09-15-2012 at 07:51 PM.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-15-2012, 08:20 PM
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See how much voltage the battery holds after charging it at 2A until it reaches 14.7V. It should stabilize to at least 12.3V. Then read battery voltage with engine running. It should be at 14.65~14.90V.
Your battery is probably shot... Was the alternator cover hit/scratched when you fell on that side?
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-15-2012, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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What kind of car, and was the car running?
2009 Corolla not running. I think the first thing it to check if it will hold a charge. Strange that all of a sudden (mid-season) it decides to die. I will buy the battery and let y'all know what happens.

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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-15-2012, 10:04 PM Thread Starter
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I'd agree with this as an accurate assessment. Today I had to change the battery on my (new to me) BMW K75S. The battery in it was "a couple of years old" when I bought the bike and a few days ago, after sitting for several and several more days wouldn't crank with enough juice to start the engine.

I gave up trying to bring it back to life and installed an Odyssey AGM (from Batterymart.com). It's not cheap but it's stated life expectancy with ordinary care is 5 to 7 years. The old girl fired up almost before I punched the starter button! Thank you Odyssey.

My Versys has a sealed battery and while we're away from our Texas bikes it has a Battery Minder Plus (Amazon.com) connected to it. It features computer controlled charge, float and desulfation modes and can be left connected endlessly (well, except when riding unless you have a really long exension cord).

Even after several months of being alone and unloved, the V fires without hesitation. It must like me.
Thanks for the reply. I was figuring that as it would die after disconnecting it, it must've been something else than the battery.

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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-15-2012, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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EDIT: Deleted 2 top quotes for clarity

Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
See how much voltage the battery holds after charging it at 2A until it reaches 14.7V. It should stabilize to at least 12.3V. Then read battery voltage with engine running. It should be at 14.65~14.90V.
Your battery is probably shot... Was the alternator cover hit/scratched when you fell on that side?
I have a meter, when I charge it next I will check. No, just the fairings where hit.... I'm really relieved that it's just the battery, I thought it might've been the alternator (or moto equiv) that was not charging the bike.....

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Last edited by robnb; 09-16-2012 at 08:04 AM.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-15-2012, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robnb View Post
...So I figure after some thinking, that the most likely thing is the battery. Fast forward to just today, and I go to boost it off my car. Success! I leave it running for a while (2 minutes or so) and figure I will disconnect it and let it run to charge up (does that even work?). As soon as I break the boosting circuit it dies again. Start it again, leave it on for a while and rev it up to 3k rpm and remove? same thing....
I believe that the FI pump requires a certain minimum voltage to work, and if the battery is dead (sounds like it is), you may not have the required voltage just after 'boosting' it.

That happened in a car I owned even tho' it seemed OK right up till it 'died'....

Ed
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-16-2012, 12:29 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by onewizard View Post
One last thing you could try is to jump start the bike with the battery disconnected, adjust your idle screw to idle at 2000 RPM after warm up, take your jumper off after warm up, if the bike continues to run, alternator is ok.
I like this idea - I will try and report back.

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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-16-2012, 09:13 PM
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I like this idea - I will try and report back.
I noticed you have a meter, this test is a very crude test and was suggested only if you lack a meter and or a charger. Since you have a meter, hook it up , it should read 14.2 volts @2000 RPM, you should be able to bring on your high beam, and it should maintain 14.2 to 14.3 volts.One thing, without a battery, there is no filtering for the highs and lows, so the regulator isn't going to be as stable as if it had a battery.

One last thing, you could use your car battery to prove the regulator is working by doing what Invader suggested. Leave your boost cables hooked up to the car ( no need to start car), measure voltage at car after car has been sitting for 10 minutes, it should be somewhere around 12.4 to 12.7 volts. Start the bike ( bike battery one side disconnected), the voltage at the car battery should start to climb above whatever it was before starting, I would be very surprised if it reached 14.2 volts.
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-17-2012, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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I noticed you have a meter, this test is a very crude test and was suggested only if you lack a meter and or a charger. Since you have a meter, hook it up , it should read 14.2 volts @2000 RPM, you should be able to bring on your high beam, and it should maintain 14.2 to 14.3 volts.One thing, without a battery, there is no filtering for the highs and lows, so the regulator isn't going to be as stable as if it had a battery.

One last thing, you could use your car battery to prove the regulator is working by doing what Invader suggested. Leave your boost cables hooked up to the car ( no need to start car), measure voltage at car after car has been sitting for 10 minutes, it should be somewhere around 12.4 to 12.7 volts. Start the bike ( bike battery one side disconnected), the voltage at the car battery should start to climb above whatever it was before starting, I would be very surprised if it reached 14.2 volts.

Well I just read this after I came in from my tests. So I don't have exactly this, but I do have some information!

So I took the battery out yesterday and bought a new charger and much to my surprise as soon as I put it on, it read charged. I left it on overnight none-the-less. This morning I disconnected it and left it. Measured it again after work and it read 12.3 or something close to it.

This info in hand I decided to try the battery-less bike test. Hooked it up and started it off the car (which was off). Started right up. Let it warm then adjusted the idle to 2500 rpm. Upon disconnecting the battery - it died.

Then pulled the fuses for the headlight and the taillights (2x10A fuses) and started it up again. Running fine until I disconnect the battery -- Again, it dies.

Before pulling the fuses I tried revving it to 4.5-5k and pulling the the battery cord - and it was acting strange, almost like a intermettant disconnect (the LCD was resetting, but the lights remained on and the bike continued to fire (however it sounded 'weak').

From the evidence it appears to perhaps be a loose wire or something. I hope someone has some advice, as I would really not like to pull the whole bike apart chasing demons!


EDIT:: Forgot to mention that the bike when running off the car battery measured 14.5-14.1 (seemed to get lower as the bike warmed up) while running.

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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-17-2012, 08:52 PM
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Well I just read this after I came in from my tests. So I don't have exactly this, but I do have some information!

So I took the battery out yesterday and bought a new charger and much to my surprise as soon as I put it on, it read charged. I left it on overnight none-the-less. This morning I disconnected it and left it. Measured it again after work and it read 12.3 or something close to it.

.
Will the bike start with this battery? If not, the battery is toast.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-17-2012, 09:22 PM
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EDIT:: Forgot to mention that the bike when running off the car battery measured 14.5-14.1 (seemed to get lower as the bike warmed up) while running.
First I very rarely give advice without knowing first hand, I have a 2007, just disconnected the negative because I have several connections on the positive. Warmed the bike up, when it went to idle speed I disconnected the battery, bike continued to run but I got a F1 light on. I was fully expecting that as there is no filtering on this or any other automotive system, so there would be a excessive amount of ripple or AC, as to the bike, absolutely no change in idle speed, and headlight was on along with all the other lights, ( I have the higher wattage Osram Hyper 65w).

Check the manual for testing the regulator, you need to do that. Since you already have mastered running off the car, and you have a meter, I will give you some tests that are similar to the manual, but different.

You need to disconnect the regulator multi-pin connector at the regulator ( it pulls out towards the brake pedal side.

Run the bike off your car, you can have your car idling to maintain battery charge. The best is to measure with the bike at idle rpm, what I need you to do is measure the connector,ONE WORD OF WARNING the top connection is positive from main fuse, live ALL the time, the bottom has three black wires, call them A,B,C.( BK-1, BK-2, BK-3) You need to measure AC volts in the range of 55 to 65 volts , measure A to B , then B to C , last C to A. The voltages should be within 2 to 3 volts of each other.

See manual 16-34,

Another place you can measure it is on the connector from the alternator, although you need very small probes to get into the connector, the connector is about 1 foot above the alternator, three white wires in the bottom and three black out the top, use the same test method, except you are measuring the white wires.

Last edited by onewizard; 09-17-2012 at 09:43 PM.
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-17-2012, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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Will the bike start with this battery? If not, the battery is toast.
No. Therefore new battery. I will order one tomorrow and keep testing to see if the regulator is toast too.

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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-17-2012, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
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( I have the higher wattage Osram Hyper 65w).
I've noticed that the stock light is frankly poor and the high beam isn't much better - do you find the new light makes a difference?

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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-18-2012, 04:21 AM
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If you have to buy a new battery anyway? may I suggest Alien Motion from Discount Riders (this forum) $132.98 shipped with recommended charger. Bonus -~8 pounds. I've had mine ~2 months and have nothing but positives to say!

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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-18-2012, 07:30 AM
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Either the battery, stator, rectifier.

Think the battery has to left connected to stabilize the electricity generated by the stator. Check if the rectifier in converting the AC generated to DC to the battery. A voltmeter would help check this.

A smart charger would be a good buy.

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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-18-2012, 10:42 AM
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Well I just read this after I came in from my tests. So I don't have exactly this, but I do have some information!

So I took the battery out yesterday and bought a new charger and much to my surprise as soon as I put it on, it read charged. I left it on overnight none-the-less. This morning I disconnected it and left it. Measured it again after work and it read 12.3 or something close to it.
12.3 is nowhere near enough, it should be at least 13.8 for a fully charged battery. I'd say your up for a new battery.
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