Rear shock advise. - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-09-2018, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
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Rear shock advise.

Hi all, wanted to get some advise regarding the rear shock.

Some background :

Even after fooling around with preload and rebound, I still hate the kick of the stock suspension over fast small bumps.

I had installed a speedys lowering block, and actually I think it makes the stock shock perform worse instead of better. I like that I can reach the ground comfortably, but the steering is abit heavier then I would like, even after dropping the front forks 22mm down.

So I was thinking of changing the rear shock to solve this problem together.

I followed threads and learned because of the nature of our laydown shock, a separator piston is a must within the rear. So that kicked out YSS shocks height adjustable shock I was considering as a budget replacement. (no separator piston)

I liked nitron, but it's kinda pricey for me, and then I stumbled on Shock Factory M Shock. 480 euro with shipping (less vat). Great reviews by MCN and ducati scrambler riders. Shock factory even offered a internal lowering preload spacer of 10mm that would bring the lowering to around 28.5mm. (He seems to know the leverage ratio on our V well) , rider and pillion weight is also required by him. I am almost ready to pull the trigger. He confirms he has a separator piston.

1) However I want to check, is it the sprung nature of the rear shock or the lack of proper compression valving that creates the harsh kicky effect? I am hoping that any aftermarket with better valving will be an Improvement. I am a 100 percent blacktop rider.

2)I noticed great success of the R1 shock for riders to make a plush ride.. But I am concerned is it due to because it has high speed compression adjustment which the. M shock does not have...I am kinda avoiding this route because I am concerned that the r1 shocks on ebay are kinda beat up, and I don't know where to find the required springs and bearings and machinist here... The costs may add up to more than a new unit if I get a busted one, and it still require me to use the lowering block.

The Mshock works on a single compression and rebound adjuster on a ratio.

M Shocks

I would hate that I made this purchase without fixing the jarring kick issue as it has no high speed adjustment. So I am wondering if just a proper spring and valving can solve the issue..

Should I buy?


I am 172 lb geared, with wife at 128lb and roughly 18lb of accessories. With mixed solo and two up riding, I was wondering what would be a good spring rate. I want to cross check as shipping from Europe to Asia is expensive... So I want to minimize risk of returning the spring if I do get the M shock. I see some recommendations of 16kg spring for 2 up riders.. Which is pretty close to stock spring? But yet some say they have good results with a 13kg spring on the r1 shock.

I am concerned because I noticed some shock manufacturers seem to like to overspring, like a recent Wilbur post I read. Even race techs spring rates seem off.

I mostly do 90 percent street and 10 percent aggressive and hope to do some track once our local track reopens

Thanks!

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Last edited by widishi; 01-09-2018 at 09:40 PM.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-09-2018, 11:18 PM
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I went with a Nitron. Here is my write up in case you did not already see it.

It's a really well made shock and is quite a bit more plush than the stock shock but it still will beat you up a bit over the rough stuff. Even so the Versys is still a much smoother ride than most sport bikes with it's longer travel suspension.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ron-shock.html

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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-09-2018, 11:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkerjet View Post
I went with a Nitron. Here is my write up in case you did not already see it.

It's a really well made shock and is quite a bit more plush than the stock shock but it still will beat you up a bit over the rough stuff. Even so the Versys is still a much smoother ride than most sport bikes with it's longer travel suspension.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ron-shock.html
looks good...you got a really nice deal with such a new looking unit.

Do you ride two-up on it?

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Last edited by widishi; 01-09-2018 at 11:27 PM.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-09-2018, 11:47 PM Thread Starter
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Hmmmmm though I might have to request a spacer from Nitron to lower, after handling fees, Nitron is actually only 70 USD more than the M Shock... Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. 580USD with shipping. decision decisions.

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-10-2018, 12:11 AM Thread Starter
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Info from Shock Factory :

Our shock absorbers are made with a gas cell inside the body. The twin tube construction coupled with its sealed gas cell ensures consistent damping that is both reliable and effective in all conditions.

About the ratio between length of the shock and high of the bike, is 2,85: 1 mm on the shock is equal to 2,85 mm on the bike.

We can make shock 5 mm shorter so, the bike will be 14,25 mm lower (we could only work by 5 mm to 5 mm)

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-10-2018, 01:40 AM Thread Starter
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https://www.tein.co.jp/e/special/ni_toryu/

Interesting article... I'm quite sold on m shocks twin tube sealed gas shock concept then.

Article explaining the differences. It seems, visually at least, the nitron has quite a short exposed piston stroke due to its monotube design... Additionally, spring rate might have to be increased to make up for a shorter stroke.

But has more, stable and tunable damping, and good at heat dissapation but with some hardness due to pressurized air gap.

Might not be lowerable at all, with spacer.




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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-10-2018, 04:04 AM Thread Starter
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Actually seems like nitron had extended the versys shock to compensate for reduced travel... So I guess nitron is out.

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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-10-2018, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by widishi View Post
looks good...you got a really nice deal with such a new looking unit.

Do you ride two-up on it?
The shock was new. It was built for a heavier rider who canceled his order. They installed a softer spring for my weight.

No I don't ride 2 up.

Good luck with your decision.

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Last edited by hawkerjet; 01-10-2018 at 02:53 PM.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-10-2018, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by widishi View Post
...2)I noticed great success of the R1 shock for riders to make a plush ride.. But I am concerned is it due to because it has high speed compression adjustment which the. M shock does not have...I am kinda avoiding this route because I am concerned that the r1 shocks on ebay are kinda beat up, and I don't know where to find the required springs and bearings and machinist here... The costs may add up to more than a new unit if I get a busted one, and it still require me to use the lowering block...
Suggest you check around at motorcycle wreckers in Singapore (or countries near) for an '07 or '08 Yam R1 to get the shock (and they ARE re-buildable!). BOTH my V650s have them, and they are GREAT!!!

-
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-10-2018, 10:44 PM Thread Starter
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Yea guess I should, there's a big junkyard in Singapore for bikes.. And we have a rule that bikes have to be scrapped or exported in an interval of 10 years , so there might be a chance of some. 06 to 08 r1 stocks... Would you think an internal 10mm spacer would work on the r1 shock?

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-10-2018, 11:14 PM
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A good suspension guy can introduce a spacer into any shock. It just prevents the shock from attaining full extension.

Increased rebound dampening is what you need to prevent harshness on stutter bumps - or get up on the pegs and allow your legs to absorb some of the rebound energy.
Or a slightly stronger spring.

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-11-2018, 07:16 PM Thread Starter
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OK I pulled the trigger on a 30k miles r1 08 shock!

With the vac mod, tps adjustment, shock and shock. I should put a "versys forum modded" sticker on my V.

Also read about the right fork shim stack mod.. Heh


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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-12-2018, 05:30 AM Thread Starter
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Okay Might need more help:

I was wondering of putting a shorter custom spring to achieve lowering of 10mm on the R1 shock. to achieve a 28.5mm lower riding position, as I now know a 1:2.85 ratio from shock to ride height.

But I realized this isn't that easy.

Stock Shock : 50mm Travel.
R1 Shock : 49mm Travel. (if not counting 15mm additional motion on crush bumper).

I kind of need help as I am going through a few mental gymnastics.

When I make a shorter spring lets say 10mm less, the piston starts further down the stroke as its starting point.

So is it right to say now I have only 39mm available travel left on the 'shorter' shock?

However to prevent bottoming out I will need to increase the spring rate on custom spring I will be ordering, to account for shorter stroke.

I have noticed a ex-versys rider Zeph with a 13Kg spring and he and his wife weighs almost the same as me and the missus (150KG). and he rode his shock for 10,000km without any bad reports, so I am using his as a baseline.

So considering a linear rate spring - and 39mm (78%) total travel of a original 50mm shock.

Would it be accurate to say i need a 22% (100%-78%) Stiffer spring to prevent bottoming on a 10mm shorter spring?

As such a 15.75Kg - 170mm Spring Vs a 13kg - 180mm Spring.

I know the R1 Shock has an additional 14mm travel from the crush bump that can cause the shock to strike the bottom, could be catastrophic at a high speed bump ..So I really want to get this right.


Potential Issues:
Can get the proper Riding sag with the shorter spring and the preload collar not engaging the spring as early...but 10mm less on a 180mm spring shouldn't be an issue I am thinking.

Also is 10mm on the spring the same as 10mm shorter shock?

I know I am missing something...

HALP!

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-12-2018, 10:33 AM
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Sorry to not be much help, but we HAD a thread about installing an R1 shock, and much more about springs.

You MIGHT find it thru SEARCH.



I just found it, then BUMPED it to the top.

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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-12-2018, 11:09 AM Thread Starter
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I will check through, thanks!

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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-24-2018, 12:12 AM Thread Starter
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Well although its pretty quiet here: I wanted to share my progress.

After much research, I believe I will be the first to embark on a lowered R1 Shock for the V.

Methodology:

10mm internal spacer to be fitted in R1 Shock to limit travel, effectively droping bike by 28.5mm

Heavy Spring : 15.2KG to cope with 2 up riding and reduced stroke of piston to prevent bottoming out (I just plucked this figure out of the air TBH)

Spring (15.2KG/mm ordered from Faulkner, 177.8mm free length) Stock R1 Spring is 179.578mm free length - 1.7mm shorter spring.

Issue! : putting a 10mm limiting spacer equates to around 8.3mm of preload (10mm-1.7mm) force on spring... on measurement of my versys shock, that equates to almost the preload adjuster on full, I would hazard to guess that will be similar to the R1 Suspension with 9 clicks of preload adjustment.

I was adamant not to go this far and suffer a harsh ride from not being able to set proper sag.

Solution: Racetech's threaded preload collar for the R1 '07, a much much slimmer adjuster! Which would likely be able to let me gain the 8.3mm and more back! 65USD w/o shipping, I have also asked them if they could make me the said spacer suitable for the R1 Shock.

Fingers crossed guys, I am going the UK Versys forums and Ted99's methodology of using a PU bushing for the hardened end. And a replacement roller bearing for the softer bushing end.. I am totally against any local mechanics to do the drilling, I do not trust local workmanship at all.

2009 V ABS - 80,00KM

LV Evo II | H&B Crash Bars | H&B Journey 55L | LED Voltmeter | PP Windshield Bracket | Puig Windshield w/ Multi Deflector | C&C Shorty Levers | Chaft Mirrors | Puig Rear Hugger | Series R/R | Vac Mod | Tooless Preload Adjuster | Snorkel Remove | EP Radiator Guard | BMW Grips | TS Tank Grips | LED City Lights | Contoured Seat

Last edited by widishi; 01-24-2018 at 12:17 AM.
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-24-2018, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
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Well although its pretty quiet here: I wanted to share my progress.

After much research, I believe I will be the first to embark on a lowered R1 Shock for the V.

Methodology:

10mm internal spacer to be fitted in R1 Shock to limit travel, effectively droping bike by 28.5mm

Heavy Spring : 15.2KG to cope with 2 up riding and reduced stroke of piston to prevent bottoming out (I just plucked this figure out of the air TBH)

Spring (15.2KG/mm ordered from Faulkner, 177.8mm free length) Stock R1 Spring is 179.578mm free length - 1.7mm shorter spring.

Issue! : putting a 10mm limiting spacer equates to around 8.3mm of preload (10mm-1.7mm) force on spring... on measurement of my versys shock, that equates to almost the preload adjuster on full, I would hazard to guess that will be similar to the R1 Suspension with 9 clicks of preload adjustment.

I was adamant not to go this far and suffer a harsh ride from not being able to set proper sag.

Solution: Racetech's threaded preload collar for the R1 '07, a much much slimmer adjuster! Which would likely be able to let me gain the 8.3mm and more back! 65USD w/o shipping, I have also asked them if they could make me the said spacer suitable for the R1 Shock.

Fingers crossed guys, I am going the UK Versys forums and Ted99's methodology of using a PU bushing for the hardened end. And a replacement roller bearing for the softer bushing end.. I am totally against any local mechanics to do the drilling, I do not trust local workmanship at all.
Well if you are following Ted99 advice, you can't go wrong. I haven't been on the site for a month, several months ago I think he finally got rid of the 2 stroke.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-27-2018, 10:46 PM
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Any progress???


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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by widishi View Post
Yea guess I should, there's a big junkyard in Singapore for bikes.. And we have a rule that bikes have to be scrapped or exported in an interval of 10 years , so there might be a chance of some. 06 to 08 r1 stocks... Would you think an internal 10mm spacer would work on the r1 shock?

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I went this way and no regret so far...mine is a 07 R1 stock OHLINS, needed a lit mod work and have it on the bike for over 5 years. cost about RM 2000.00 including fitting work.
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