Battery cable grounding...what side. - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-30-2017, 05:42 PM Thread Starter
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Battery cable grounding...what side.

Just wondering if anyone can confirm which battery cable on the 2017 650 is grounded to the frame, the positive or negative? Just glancing at the battery I see one black wire running from the negative battery post, and black and white wires running from the positive post. I'm assuming the positive with the white wire is the grounded side, but I thought I better ask because I can't really see what's going on beneath the battery surface.

I bought a battery maintainer and it states...

"For a negative ground vehicle (as in most vehicles), connect the charger's positive (red) ring terminal to the positive post and the negative (black) ring terminal to the vehicle chassis."

"For a positive ground vehicle, connect the charger's negative (black) ring terminal to the negative post and the positive (red) ring terminal to the vehicle chassis."

Thanks
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-30-2017, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Bale2011 View Post
Just wondering if anyone can confirm which battery cable on the 2017 650 is grounded to the frame, the positive or negative? Just glancing at the battery I see one black wire running from the negative battery post, and black and white wires running from the positive post. I'm assuming the positive with the white wire is the grounded side, but I thought I better ask because I can't really see what's going on beneath the battery surface.

I bought a battery maintainer and it states...

"For a negative ground vehicle (as in most vehicles), connect the charger's positive (red) ring terminal to the positive post and the negative (black) ring terminal to the vehicle chassis."

"For a positive ground vehicle, connect the charger's negative (black) ring terminal to the negative post and the positive (red) ring terminal to the vehicle chassis."

Thanks
There are no absolute color codes for positive and negative wire however black is commonly used for ground in a DC system and green for ground and white for neutral (0v) in a 3 wire AC system. The frame is attached to the negative battery terminal in the Versys. I have never heard of a POS ground before and I was an electronic technologist. In engineering/technical use the word ground is synonymous with 0 volts or the NEG terminal of a battery.

Voltage is analogous to water pressure (PSI) in a plumbing system and current to the volume of water flow such as gallons per minute. This is why fuses are rated by MAX current they can handle and wire selection is based on the current draw of the application. Energy/power (measured in watts) is a factor of both voltage and current, as a result you can calculate current draw, as an example, for an item if it lists it's power consumption.

Power = voltage * current

Voltage = current (amps) * resistance (ohms)
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Last edited by twowheels; 01-01-2018 at 09:14 PM.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-30-2017, 07:30 PM
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Classic cars and motorcycles may be positive ground, but anything modern is most likely negative ground.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-30-2017, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by twowheels View Post
There are no absolute color codes for positive and negative wire however black is commonly used for ground in a DC system and green for ground and black for neutral (0v) in a 3 wire AC system. The frame is attached to the negative battery terminal in the Versys. I have never heard of a POS ground before and I was an electronic technologist. In engineering/technical use the word ground is synonymous with 0 volts or the NEG terminal of a battery.

Voltage is analogous to water pressure (PSI) in a plumbing system and current to the volume of water flow such as gallons per minute. This is why fuses are rated by MAX current they can handle and wire selection is based on the current draw of the application. Energy/power (measured in watts) is a factor of both voltage and current, as a result you can calculate current draw, as an example, for an item if it lists it's power consumption.

Power = voltage * current
Voltage = current (amps) * resistance (ohms)
In US (North American?) 110 volt AC wiring, only white is used for neutral. Very important not to get this wrong, as in lethal. A white wire may be used as a hot if it is banded with tape(not green) on each end. i.e. end run switch, 220v circuits.

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-30-2017, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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I attached the red wire to the Pos battery post and grounded the black wire to the frame and the unit appears to be working correctly (indicator lights show that it's charging).
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-30-2017, 10:00 PM
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Pretty much all modern vehicles have a negative ground............a few older and much odder vehicles had positive grounds but I haven't seen any of those in decades. Be careful about swapping them around.........you can really ruin some expensive parts.

I always hate running across house wiring that has red, black and white wires. You just never know how someone hooked them up.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-30-2017, 11:09 PM
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Colors really don't mean anything, they can easily interchange between manufacture, maintainers and owners. If the wiring is 100% stock, then use the wire diagram for color codes of each wire. Otherwise a multimeter is you best friend. In your case to simplify it, all Versys are negatively grounded!

The people talking about 120 and 240 A/C, just wow! You are so off topic it isn't even funny! This is a 12 volt D/C system, a completely different animal!
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 08:38 AM
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Electrical 101

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Colors really don't mean anything, they can easily interchange between manufacture, maintainers and owners. If the wiring is 100% stock, then use the wire diagram for color codes of each wire. Otherwise a multimeter is you best friend. In your case to simplify it, all Versys are negatively grounded!

The people talking about 120 and 240 A/C, just wow! You are so off topic it isn't even funny! This is a 12 volt D/C system, a completely different animal!
Darn good thing I didn't mention the high frequency 3 phase AC system , which in actual fact exists on the Versys****in the charging system And yes I agree the topic went a little off, as to using a meter, not fully agreed, as I have seen the probes inserted backwards, operator didn't know how to use the meter and it showed reverse polarity. Many devices made now have reverse polarity protection, reading the owners manual and it states this is a first step of protection. A visual check of the battery either says positive or is marked + , also negative could be marked - , the owners manual has the information contained in it as to charging system and negative ground polarity.
Or you could just post a question on the Kawasaki Forum and receive about 30 replies, the good thing is that this forum is alive and well.
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 08:54 AM
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Darn good thing I didn't mention the high frequency 3 phase AC system , which in actual fact exists on the Versys****in the charging system And yes I agree the topic went a little off, as to using a meter, not fully agreed, as I have seen the probes inserted backwards, operator didn't know how to use the meter and it showed reverse polarity. Many devices made now have reverse polarity protection, reading the owners manual and it states this is a first step of protection. A visual check of the battery either says positive or is marked + , also negative could be marked - , the owners manual has the information contained in it as to charging system and negative ground polarity.
Or you could just post a question on the Kawasaki Forum and receive about 30 replies, the good thing is that this forum is alive and well.
You're reaching talking about the charging system and user error of multimeter use, still off topic. Without a meter you are working completely blind. Like battery and other wires, labels and colors may or may not exist or even be correct. A meter is the only way to verify correctly, safely and without damaging components. If you can't work a meter that is your problem and you probably should have left the job with a trained person or professional to begin with, in which case they will/would use a meter!
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 11:01 AM
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I have never heard of a POS ground before....
Stuff from Britain was all POS ground back in the "good old days", which probably at least partially accounts for "Lucas Electrics" being referred to as "LUCAS- Prince of Darkness".

BOTH of my '62 Triumph 650s had their alternators "die", one SPECTACULARLY.
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 11:09 AM
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Stuff from Britain was all POS ground back in the "good old days", which probably at least partially accounts for "Lucas Electrics" being referred to as "LUCAS- Prince of Darkness".

BOTH of my '62 Triumph 650s had their alternators "die", one SPECTACULARLY.

Yeah, if you want true ram air tuning, you better be willing to ram some air! (SteveinSunnyFlorida)

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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 03:31 PM
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I have never heard of a POS ground before and I was an electronic technologist. In engineering/technical use the word ground is synonymous with 0 volts or the NEG terminal of a battery.
Norton Commando and many other Brit bikes were positive ground, or earth as the Brits call it.
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-01-2018, 10:43 AM
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Steve - I LOVE that pic!!!


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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-01-2018, 09:58 PM
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Steve - I LOVE that pic!!!

That must be the last bottle of smoke around- Lucas OEM- used a few back in the 60's seems the smoke came out easy but was a bitch putting it back in
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-01-2018, 11:48 PM
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More on Lucas, The Prince of Darkness. Shamelessly copied from Haggistini on the visordown forum

Electrical Theory by Joe Lucas
Electrical Theory- A Treatise on the Importance of Smoke
by Joseph Lucas (Prince of darkness)

All electrical components and wiring harnesses depend on proper circuit functioning, which is the transmission of charged ions by retention of the visible spectral manifestation known as "smoke". Smoke is the thing that makes electrical circuits work. Don't be fooled by scientists and engineers talking about excited electrons and the like. Smoke is the key to all things electrical

We know this to be true because every time one lets the smoke out of an electrical circuit, it stops working. This can be verified repeatedly through empirical testing. For example, if one places a large copper bar across the terminals of a battery, prodigious quantities of smoke are liberated and the battery shortly ceases to function. In addition, if one observes smoke escaping from an electrical component such as a Lucas voltage regulator, it will also be observed that the component no longer functions.

The logic is elementary and inescapable! The function of the wiring harness is to conduct the smoke from one device to another. When the wiring harness springs a leak and lets all the smoke out of the system, nothing works right afterward.

Starter motors were considered unsuitable for British motorcycles for some time largely because they regularly released large quantities of smoke from the electrical system.

It has been reported that Lucas electrical components are possibly more prone to electrical leakage than their Bosch, Japanese or American counterparts. Experts point out that this is because Lucas is British, and all things British leak. British engines leak oil, British shock absorbers, hydraulic forks, and disk brake systems leak fluid, British tires leak air and British Intelligence leaks national defence secrets.

Therefore, it follows that British electrical systems must leak smoke. Once again, the logic is clear and inescapable.

Sometimes you may miss the component releasing the smoke that makes your electrical system function correctly, but if you sniff around you can often find the faulty component by the undeniable and telltale smoke smell. Sometimes this is a better indicator than standard electrical tests performed with a volt-ohm meter.

In conclusion, the basic concept of transmission of electrical energy in the form of smoke provides a clear and logical explanation of the mysteries of electrical components and why they fail.

"A gentleman does not motor about after dark." - Joseph Lucas, 1842-1903

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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-02-2018, 01:59 PM
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Very good write up SteveJ but there is a little more- the rest of the story as they say-after Mr Lucas got out of the motorcycle and auto parts business he went into making refrigerators-and to this very day the Brit's still drink their beer warm in memory of such a fine appliance that he made- and in the end the Queen wanted to knight Mr Lucas for all the contributions he made-but the palace used Lucas light blubs and it was so dark the queen did not want to swing the sword in fear of decapitating him so they all had a warm beer and called it a day

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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-02-2018, 02:43 PM
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Stuff from Britain was all POS ground back in the "good old days", which probably at least partially accounts for "Lucas Electrics" being referred to as "LUCAS- Prince of Darkness".

BOTH of my '62 Triumph 650s had their alternators "die", one SPECTACULARLY.
That always begs the old question: Why do they drink warm beer in Britain? Because they have Lucas refrigerators!!!
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-02-2018, 03:37 PM
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That always begs the old question: Why do they drink warm beer in Britain? Because they have Lucas refrigerators!!!
Chuck - you are going AT this from the WRONG direction:
-the word you should question is... "warm"....

To ANYONE on the Forum who's actually spent time in England (during ALL but the ONE day each summer when you can walk around w/out wearing a sweater) - it is ALWAYS chilly, tho' Brits will maintain that it IS warm. Comes from years of living in stone-castles which are ALWAYS dank, damp, cold, the "normal" temp being about 56F.

From THAT comes the temp at which you SHOULD brink Brit beer - 56F, which is ALSO known as room-temperature, because it IS....

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