What is your "normal" battery discharge rate?? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-26-2012, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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What is your "normal" battery discharge rate??

My battery ran down a couple of weeks ago and I have been since trying to diagnose the reason. I have concluded that the battery is not the problem. With the battery, off the bike, doesn't lose voltage quickly. I have had two batteries in the bike and have measured (key off) discharge rate of the battery at 27mA.
If I measure the same (condition) rate on my Honda ST1300 the discharge rate is 0.7mA which is considerably less and the Honda never fails to start (yet).
Relatively speaking the discharge rate seems high on the V.
I disconnected the farkles (heated grips, relays for louder horn, aux. outlet) from the battery and still get the high rate of discharge?
I'm wondering what is the normal rate of discharge of an unfarkled V in a resting state?
Any of you electrical gurus have any trouble-shooting tips for me??
I disconnected each fuse and got the same rate of discharge every time??
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post #2 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-26-2012, 08:20 PM
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I alway hook up a 2 amp trickle charger whenever my bike is going to sit more than a day or two. Never had a problem, but am curious and will measure the discharge rate tomorrow.
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post #3 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-26-2012, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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battery discharge rate

I may just be spoiled but I think I should be able to leave the bike for a week and still be able to crank it easily. I do have a battery tender and use it if I am going to idle the bike for an extended period.
I just gotta find out why the discharge rate is so much greater than my "other" bike. Seems like I have to have a high resistance ground somewhere?
My voltage regulator (Compufire) was changed to hopefully insure that the stator does not crap out. Charging voltage seems fine, no ground found on any stator lead.
I would just like to know what the average discharge rate for this bike is with all the electrical farkles disconnected from the battery for comparison.
Its an easy test with a multi-meter.
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post #4 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-26-2012, 08:53 PM
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The digital clock is going to pull a little juice. Can't you pull the each fuse and measure the draw across each circuit to see which ones are pulling?

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post #5 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-27-2012, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tigerpawed View Post
The digital clock is going to pull a little juice. Can't you pull the each fuse and measure the draw across each circuit to see which ones are pulling?
I pulled each fuse (leaving the rest in) and tested the current from the ground lead to the negative battery terminal (27mA). I could get no difference in the reading? Maybe 27mA is normal for this bike with the key off??
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post #6 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-27-2012, 08:23 AM
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OK, I tested both my 09 V and my 10 V. Placed the test leads between the negative ground strap and the negative battery post. Key off. Current fluctuated between 12.3 and 13.3 mA - like a sine wave. So, there's something drawing current that is oscilating. Anyway, the current draw on my two bikes is about half what you're getting. I bet Invader knows what's going on.
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post #7 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-27-2012, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Scotty, thats good info. Ima guessin Invader might chime in here too.


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Originally Posted by ScottyNeal View Post
OK, I tested both my 09 V and my 10 V. Placed the test leads between the negative ground strap and the negative battery post. Key off. Current fluctuated between 12.3 and 13.3 mA - like a sine wave. So, there's something drawing current that is oscilating. Anyway, the current draw on my two bikes is about half what you're getting. I bet Invader knows what's going on.
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post #8 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-27-2012, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by olegeezer View Post
Thanks Scotty, thats good info. Ima guessin Invader might chime in here too.
I may owe you one for checking and posting, checked my bike tonight, the fuse for the fan pulled reduces the current by 1 ma., my guess is that is the clock draw.So I need to check later this week and see what is going on, as I have a 07 and I measured 28.5 ma. My thought is it is the compu fire regulator, I am hoping I am wrong but I connected the regulator to the OEM wiring, positive output is live all the time.
I calculated the current at 4.78 amps ( 168 hours or one week), which is almost half your battery.

Bad news, simplest test proved me correct, I brought the ground from the Compu Fire up to the main ground terminal near the tail light, disconnected the ground and checked with meter between compu fire ground and frame ground= 26 ma. I left it disconnected tonight and am looking at getting a 12 volt 40 amp tyco relay. I intend to use the tail light for switching, unless I can find something better, intend to switch the ground wire.

Last edited by onewizard; 05-27-2012 at 09:11 PM.
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post #9 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-28-2012, 04:45 AM Thread Starter
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I may owe you one for checking and posting, checked my bike tonight, the fuse for the fan pulled reduces the current by 1 ma., my guess is that is the clock draw.So I need to check later this week and see what is going on, as I have a 07 and I measured 28.5 ma. My thought is it is the compu fire regulator, I am hoping I am wrong but I connected the regulator to the OEM wiring, positive output is live all the time.
I calculated the current at 4.78 amps ( 168 hours or one week), which is almost half your battery.

Bad news, simplest test proved me correct, I brought the ground from the Compu Fire up to the main ground terminal near the tail light, disconnected the ground and checked with meter between compu fire ground and frame ground= 26 ma. I left it disconnected tonight and am looking at getting a 12 volt 40 amp tyco relay. I intend to use the tail light for switching, unless I can find something better, intend to switch the ground wire.
Onewiz, thanks and I may owe you one as I hope you have diagnosed the problem. I hope to check my compufire today and see if I get the same results. I was wondering if the leak could be dealt with by putting a diode in the circuit? I would also still like to know what the discharge rate is on a Versys with the stock regulator/rectifier and all farkles disconnected??
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post #10 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-28-2012, 04:57 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ScottyNeal View Post
OK, I tested both my 09 V and my 10 V. Placed the test leads between the negative ground strap and the negative battery post. Key off. Current fluctuated between 12.3 and 13.3 mA - like a sine wave. So, there's something drawing current that is oscilating. Anyway, the current draw on my two bikes is about half what you're getting. I bet Invader knows what's going on.
Thanks again Scotty. BUT, 12 to 13mA seems high, at least relative to my big, fat, comfy Honda ST at 0.7mA.
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post #11 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-28-2012, 01:58 PM
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I looked around the internet for info on parasitic current draw. Modern cars seem to draw between 1 and 50 milliamps. I'm reading around 13 ma on a 09V with 14,000 miles and a 10V with 1500 miles. I suspect that much of that is from the clock and memory for the gauges. So, I'm going to assume that around 13 ma is normal, at least for the V.

The service manual recommends disconnecting the negative lead, if the bike is to sit for an "extended" period, and recharge the battery once a month. It only takes a couple of minutes to remove the seat and hook up a 2-amp trickle charger that shuts down when the battery is fully charged. I've been doing this for both bikes since new, with no problems; either with battery or charging system. I suspect that keeping the batteries topped off reduces the load on the charging system too.
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post #12 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-28-2012, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ScottyNeal View Post
I looked around the internet for info on parasitic current draw. Modern cars seem to draw between 1 and 50 milliamps. I'm reading around 13 ma on a 09V with 14,000 miles and a 10V with 1500 miles. I suspect that much of that is from the clock and memory for the gauges. So, I'm going to assume that around 13 ma is normal, at least for the V.

The service manual recommends disconnecting the negative lead, if the bike is to sit for an "extended" period, and recharge the battery once a month. It only takes a couple of minutes to remove the seat and hook up a 2-amp trickle charger that shuts down when the battery is fully charged. I've been doing this for both bikes since new, with no problems; either with battery or charging system. I suspect that keeping the batteries topped off reduces the load on the charging system too.
Scotty, I have my V on a tender now. If Onewizard installs a relay and solves his problem, I will most likely copy his solution. It's not a big problem for me, just annoying and I just like to tinker with the issue because I have the time to do it. If I was still working or did not have the time, I probably would never have installed the Compufire R/R. Most times I agree with the old adage that, "if it's not broken, don't fix it". My stock R/R and stator were not broken, but I fixd em.........
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post #13 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-28-2012, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by olegeezer View Post
Onewiz, thanks and I may owe you one as I hope you have diagnosed the problem. I hope to check my compufire today and see if I get the same results. I was wondering if the leak could be dealt with by putting a diode in the circuit? I would also still like to know what the discharge rate is on a Versys with the stock regulator/rectifier and all farkles disconnected??
Joe
On my 07, pull the 15 amp fan fuse, shuts the clock off, clock is around 1 to 1.6 ma, which is total discharge with compufire disconnected. I should have clued in when Invader mentioned the voltage sense wire not being needed on the OEM, that's the switched regulator circuit.

I thought of the diode, two problems, you will lose 1 volt or 24 watts at full load, and the voltage regulator will not be able to sense what the battery voltage is. I have lots of large diodes from welders, just no place I want to put one, as it would need to be isolated, plus I spliced my positive output into the original harness, then rubber taped it, tywraped it into place.

I need to get a 40 amp relay from my Sayal store, for around $5, I have room beside my brake flasher, simple tie in to my tail light for switching, and the ground wire is long enough to reach the relay. My only concern is vibration on the relay contact.

Last edited by onewizard; 05-30-2012 at 09:56 PM.
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post #14 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-28-2012, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by olegeezer View Post
Onewiz, thanks and I may owe you one as I hope you have diagnosed the problem. I hope to check my compufire today and see if I get the same results. I was wondering if the leak could be dealt with by putting a diode in the circuit? I would also still like to know what the discharge rate is on a Versys with the stock regulator/rectifier and all farkles disconnected??
Joe
Simple test if you did like me, I brought the ground from the regulator up to the frame ground, all you need to do is remove your regulator ground and insert your meter between it and frame ground, my battery was 12.45 VDC and I measured 26 ma DC ------------------as to previous discussion, I wonder if the 12 to 13 ma is actually 1.2 to 1.3 ma, just depends what range you are on.

I know that I left my bike sit for almost 3 months, it started first time, then I put the motorcycle charger to top it up. At 13 ma it would have been dead after 3 months.
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post #15 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-28-2012, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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Simple test if you did like me, I brought the ground from the regulator up to the frame ground, all you need to do is remove your regulator ground and insert your meter between it and frame ground, my battery was 12.45 VDC and I measured 26 ma DC ------------------as to previous discussion, I wonder if the 12 to 13 ma is actually 1.2 to 1.3 ma, just depends what range you are on.

I know that I left my bike sit for almost 3 months, it started first time, then I put the motorcycle charger to top it up. At 13 ma it would have been dead after 3 months.
Wizard, do you suppose we are the only ones to install the compufire on a V so far????
I feel you are on to the reason for the high drain, but I have not done your R/R test yet. I am happy to follow your lead on this, but if you need me to do something, I am willing.
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post #16 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-28-2012, 09:23 PM
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Wizard, do you suppose we are the only ones to install the compufire on a V so far????
I feel you are on to the reason for the high drain, but I have not done your R/R test yet. I am happy to follow your lead on this, but if you need me to do something, I am willing.
Joe
Like I said, not what I prefer to do but, I don't see an easy fix, as to battery tenders, I have worked with various batteries over the years, some of the newer chargers will work wonders, but at a price< my son replaced his Japan battery for his Honda 919 with a Chinese battery, whopping $56 new. He got a little upset because the 1 amp deep cycle charger cooked his battery, that happens with any charger, there is always a small amount of gasing, deep cycle charges and then discharges through usually a led.

If you want to prove this problem for yourself, I am assuming you cut all the wires on the new regulator , including the ground? Or did you bring the ground up to the frame ground?

If you cut all the wires, I traced the Canadian wiring diagram, the regulator ground picks up the starter relay coil wire before it goes to frame ground. Simple way to prove it, is to remove the frame grounds ( they are located on the same side as the self dia. test plug, just to the rear of this, same place as your rear right signal light exits) and find the one with 26 ma on it, re-attach all except this one, try and start the bike, the starter shouldn't pull in, providing the US wiring is the same. By the way you will need to reset the clock when you do this.

I guess a cheap fix would be to put a wing nut and stud in for a separate ground, remove the seat and lift the ground off, when done riding. I know for myself, I will put a relay in , the time to go and get the relay, plus gas, is more than the relay is worth. I could also get it from Newark Electronics, about $3, but the shipping is too much.
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post #17 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-28-2012, 09:32 PM
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If you still have your factory regulator, can you swap it back in?

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post #18 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-28-2012, 09:45 PM
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I used a Ideal 61-310 digital multimeter, set on DCA 200ma. Checked it again tonight between the negative battery post and the black battery cable. Again got a reading of around 13. Not much interpretation required. Doubt it means 1.3. Don't have any experience with the V setting for three months without charging. At 13 ma, that would drain .013*24*30*3 = 28 amp hours from the battery, which would definitely kill it. This is consistent with the Service Manual recommendation to disconnect the battery when sitting for an extended period, and recharge the battery every month.

Perhaps your bike has less parasitic current draw than my two.

Last edited by ScottyNeal; 05-29-2012 at 08:12 AM.
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post #19 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-29-2012, 09:34 AM Thread Starter
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If you still have your factory regulator, can you swap it back in?
That would be like punting on the 5 yard line to me. If the stator craps out we'll never know if the Compufire was worth the effort.

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If you want to prove this problem for yourself, I am assuming you cut all the wires on the new regulator , including the ground? Or did you bring the ground up to the frame ground?

I guess a cheap fix would be to put a wing nut and stud in for a separate ground, remove the seat and lift the ground off, when done riding. I know for myself, I will put a relay in , the time to go and get the relay, plus gas, is more than the relay is worth. I could also get it from Newark Electronics, about $3, but the shipping is too much.
I spliced the Compufire ground into the same ground in the OEM wiring. harness. I like the idea of the relay. I've got two on the bike now. Never any trouble with them.
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post #20 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-29-2012, 11:28 PM
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I'm just about to install my Compu-Fire series type R/R for my next ride. With my IR thermometer now properly set to 0.93 emissivity, temperature readings of the generator cover are always hotter than any other engine surface including left cylinder and head (with OEM shunt type R/R); Up to 219F while the left cylinder was at 193F after an hour at 65 mph in 75F ambient. Readings are normally at about 210F/185F.
I'm installing it with wires coming out in front instead, and with the fins in same directon as OEM, also for a better fit within the chassis. I'll compare current draw between both R/R's.

Click on Compu-Fire's "Voltage Regulator Bleed test" also for milliamp draw test info. Regulator current draw should be less than 0.003 ampere (3 mA).

http://www.compufire.com/index.php?o...cman&Itemid=35

There is currenty draw for ECU's memory, clock, sensors, etc... Also, the battery discharge rate is relative to its temperature. It will normally discharge much more quickly in warmer ambient temperatures.

Make sure all your ground connections are clean and tight on bare metal surfaces, etc... I'll look into improving the grounds to chassis with heavier gauge cables as well.



Last edited by invader; 05-30-2012 at 06:47 PM.
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