Condensation? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2012, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Condensation?

Hi all, I've got something that's puzzling me a little bit. I started noticing that the glass oil level checker appears to have developed a white yogurt-like stuff on the inside. I take my bike on a fair number of short rides in the cold (40 and below). I do notice though, that it disappears after a longer, faster ride on the freeway or something for more than 30 minutes.

Running Shell Rotella T-6 5W-40 and a Purolator PureOne oil filter. Is this just the same thing that happens to cars, where the oil simply doesn't get hot enough to burn off the condensation thus forming the creamy stuff? Also, as a side question... after some longer riding and pushing through the revs, I can look down in the oil level glass and see quite a few tiny bubbles circulating around. Is this normal, or is the oil "foaming"?

I'm assuming that since it goes away on longer rides, that it is, and not something to worry about. Bike is running beautifully so far! 1500 miles on the clock so far!



Here's a picture. It's not as heavy and thick looking as it has been before:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMAG0058.jpg (60.5 KB, 140 views)

2012 Kawasaki Versys 650 - 20,500 miles
2000 Volvo V70XC 2.4T - 258,000 miles

Last edited by Sykes; 02-08-2012 at 10:25 AM.
Sykes is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2012, 10:53 AM
Member
 
spiderman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Decatur, Il
Posts: 314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
You are correct. Pretty common in the colder months.

Jeff in Illinois
07 Bandit
03 KLR
82 Rokon
spiderman is offline  
post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2012, 01:21 PM
Member
 
Bluegenes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Corvallis, OR
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
The exact same thing occurs on my bike. It most often happens when I'm only riding to and from work (2 miles) during the colder months. And like you, the clouding disappears after a longer ride. It's nothing to worry about.
Bluegenes is offline  
 
post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2012, 08:14 PM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,846
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
It is condensation in the crankcase, from the short cold trips... It's very important for the oil to reach 212F to evaporate any accumulated water which has a great impact on oil quality, and also to prevent sludge buildup.
Thermo Bob's radiator bypass allows the oil to achieve normal operating temperature as it should, as well as quicker warmups and a more stable, uniform and ideal coolant temperature. Stock cooling system is in fact compromised by a lack of a proper radiator bypass, and uses a thermostat bypass hole instead.

Last edited by invader; 02-08-2012 at 08:34 PM.
invader is offline  
post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2012, 09:03 PM
Member
 
weljo2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Norwalk CA
Posts: 15,646
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
It is condensation in the crankcase, from the short cold trips... It's very important for the oil to reach 212F to evaporate any accumulated water which has a great impact on oil quality, and also to prevent sludge buildup.
Thermo Bob's radiator bypass allows the oil to achieve normal operating temperature as it should, as well as quicker warmups and a more stable, uniform and ideal coolant temperature. Stock cooling system is in fact compromised by a lack of a proper radiator bypass, and uses a thermostat bypass hole instead.


IMG_0101 by weljo2001, on Flickr

2009 Blue Versys.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Sold
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Farkles...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Video Channel
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Photos...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I'm not a Gynecologist. "But I'll Take A Look"

Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth...
Mike Tyson

"Ya'll can go to hell, I'm goin' to Texas!"...Davey Crockett
weljo2001 is online now  
post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2012, 09:43 PM
Member
 
twowheeladdict's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,285
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Garage
My minimum ride is 26 miles so no issues with condensation and other nasty things that happen when you ride a bike only 2 miles at a time. For me 2 miles wouldn't even be worth putting gear on in the cold months.

Got the thermo-bob on the KLR, but since I know of several people with high miles on the 650cc engine don't see the need for my Versys.
twowheeladdict is offline  
post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2012, 11:45 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Yeah, 2 miles is pretty short... but I've caught the bug, and riding is just too much fun for me to pass up! I get the bike really hot every other day or so; I think it'll be fine. I just did a ton of research on the Thermo Bob, and I'm pretty interested. I just think it seems kinda silly that a nice bike like this would truly have an inadequate cooling system.

On long highway rides at steady RPM, do you think it would make any difference?

2012 Kawasaki Versys 650 - 20,500 miles
2000 Volvo V70XC 2.4T - 258,000 miles

Last edited by Sykes; 02-09-2012 at 12:17 AM.
Sykes is offline  
post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-09-2012, 09:44 PM
Super Moderator
 
fasteddiecopeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kelowna, BC - summer; Florence, AZ - winter
Posts: 17,886
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykes View Post
Thermo Bob...I'm pretty interested. I just think it seems kinda silly that a nice bike like this would truly have an inadequate cooling system.

On long highway rides at steady RPM, do you think it would make any difference?
YES!!! I got one of the first ones Bill made for the KLR (which has a temp. gauge) and, rather than waiting for the temp. needle to move, then watching it bounce back-and-forth between cold, and half-way between cold and the "half-warm" position, once the ThermoBob was installed the temp. would go up to half-way and STAY there for the rest of the ride!

Then when he mentioned he would buy a Versys and 'instrument' it to see whether it would benefit, AND found out it WOULD (there's a reason we don't have a temp. gauge from Kawi... ), I told him I'd take the first ones for my 2 Vs. They MAY be part of the reason that I get such great gas mileage (usually 54 to 60 mpg), but I don't know for sure.

Ed
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


'08 V AZ, '15 V650LT BC
Ride to D2D 2013, June '13

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Ride to D2D 2015, June '15

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Ride to D2D 2016, June '16

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fasteddiecopeman is offline  
post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-09-2012, 11:20 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Hmm... I'm definitely considering in in the small list of upgrades I have coming. I still need to do a little more research on how it works compared to the stock system. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the stock system appears very simple:

Coolant flows in engine, out tube to radiator, tube out of radiator, to the thermostat, and back into the engine block. So almost a complete circle, with the exception of the coolant overflow tank. The issue, I take it, is that the thermostat can't regulate the temperature very effectively?

So the Thermo-Bob is just a secondary thermostat? But where does that other tubing come into play. I'm very familiar with my car's cooling system, but this has me baffled a bit.

Installing soon:
-Banshee Horn (when it arrives in March)
-Backoff XP brake modulator (just got it today, have not installed)
-Handguards (not sure where to find the best cheaper ones...?)

2012 Kawasaki Versys 650 - 20,500 miles
2000 Volvo V70XC 2.4T - 258,000 miles
Sykes is offline  
post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-10-2012, 12:35 AM
Member
 
weljo2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Norwalk CA
Posts: 15,646
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Garage
http://shop.watt-man.com/Thermo-Bob-...-NEWER-TBV.htm

http://www.watt-man.com/Information__Articles.html

2009 Blue Versys.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Sold
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Farkles...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Video Channel
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Photos...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I'm not a Gynecologist. "But I'll Take A Look"

Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth...
Mike Tyson

"Ya'll can go to hell, I'm goin' to Texas!"...Davey Crockett
weljo2001 is online now  
post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-10-2012, 02:58 AM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,846
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykes View Post
Hmm... I'm definitely considering in in the small list of upgrades I have coming. I still need to do a little more research on how it works compared to the stock system. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the stock system appears very simple:

Coolant flows in engine, out tube to radiator, tube out of radiator, to the thermostat, and back into the engine block. So almost a complete circle, with the exception of the coolant overflow tank. The issue, I take it, is that the thermostat can't regulate the temperature very effectively?

So the Thermo-Bob is just a secondary thermostat? But where does that other tubing come into play. I'm very familiar with my car's cooling system, but this has me baffled a bit.
Stock thermostat is removed from its housing when installing Thermo-Bob's bypass thermostat system... I recommend replacing the original thermostat cover O-ring with a new one. I had mine matched at local hydraulics supply shop.

Thermostat cover O-ring (45mm OD x 2.50mm thick) # 92055-1279 Retail $4.82, $3.02 from:

http://www.partshark.com/fiche_secti...008&fveh=38805

Kawasaki's claim of the Versys' "simplified cooling system" is in fact not to be bragged about, if only for its reduced external plumbing favored over a proper bypass:

Kawasaki (about the Versys engine): "Coolant is routed through the engine cases to the cylinder and head via a simplified cooling system, which reduces external plumbing. A large radiator and under-engine muffler contribute to easier heat dissipation..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
Some of us have the background and knowledge to understand the benefits of a quick warmup and consistent running temperature. Others do not.

For those who understand, no explanation is necessary.

For those who don't or won't understand, no explanation will ever be sufficient.

The literature is out there. Study it if you want.

I have no intention of getting into a shouting match with people who obviously have no knowledge of proper cooling system design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twowheeladdict View Post
I do understand the benefits on the KLR. Single cylinder large thumper.

The part in your response I don't understand is your statement about proper cooling system design. Are you implying that the engineers at Kawasaki don't know about proper cooling system design?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
Oh, they probly know, but it's a cost control thing. Sometimes the bean counters win. If you can save a nickel a unit by getting along without a bypass, they'll do it. Saw it happen a lot over my 35 years at Ford Engineering
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watt-man View Post
I wanted to step in with some actual test data from my '08 Versys. What I found interesting was that the bleed hole in the Versys stock thermostat is quite large (3mm diameter), and even though the bike has a 180 stat, the bike doesn't simply warm up to 180 and sit there. Even on a 50 degree day it was always running below that 180 reading, and bouncing around every time the 'stat opened and closed. See plots below.
http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...0&d=1293168965

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watt-man View Post
As for the 'stat slamming shut' vs. looking at it on a stove, the bottom line of course is what the temperatures are actually doing in the engine as a result of its motion, no matter how 'slow' it might look. Note the swings in the temperature of the coolant entering the engine (blue lines in the plot above). That data was taken every 3 seconds. I took the data from those two tests and plotted how much the inlet temperature changed in six seconds. Blue is stock, majenta is with the Thermo-Bob. For instance, at minute 13 into the ride, the inlet temperature went from 94.3 to 126.3 F in six seconds - this is when the 'stat opened (quickly, in my opinion anyway) and a hot gulp of coolant ran through the radiator into the water pump. If you don't think the coolant moves quickly on these bikes, I've tested the KLR and the coolant makes seventeen trips through the engine and radiator in one minute at 4000 rpm.

As for what this does for longevity, agreed - I don't have data other than my testing - measuring temps. The KLR, at least, has a problem with the cylinder going oval at the bottom - right where the cold water comes in. I don't know what issues the Versys has, if any. But I built one for my KLR back in 2005 because I didn't like the 160 'stat, didn't like the cold oil, didn't like the lack of a bypass. The lack of bypass was probably my biggest concern. The Versys also has no bypass, which is why we see the swings in the 'stock' temp lines.

I was quite surprised to see that the Versys didn't do what most people would think that it does, which is warm to 180F in 3 miles and sit there all winter.
http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...1&d=1293169827

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watt-man View Post
... and to address the supposed "overheating" issues - the temp in the heat of summer, based on actual testing, is only 2 or 3 degrees hotter than a stock bike. Here's why:

See post #215

http://www.klr650.net/forums/showthr...=29515&page=15

Keep in mind that in that post when I say my "yellow line in my plots" that's actually a black line today at the website.

Again, this is based on testing, not opinion.

If a thermostat fails closed, no matter if it's stock or with a T-bob, the engine will get hot, and the high temp light will come on. There's no difference there.
invader is offline  
post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-10-2012, 08:43 AM
MTS
Member
 
MTS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NW USA
Posts: 3,518
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Invader and weljo do you guys both have a Thermo-Bob installed? If so, do you think the install was fairly easy?
After reading about the T-bob and where I live. I need this installed right away. Would you not agree? Thanks again!





To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
( RIDE FREE BE SAFE )
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MTS is offline  
post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-10-2012, 02:24 PM
Member
 
weljo2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Norwalk CA
Posts: 15,646
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Garage
Been told it fairly easy. But i had mine put on at the dealership. So it was easy for me i was drinking a soda and looking at all the bikes there while someone did the real work.
heres the install instructions....

2009 Blue Versys.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Sold
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Farkles...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Video Channel
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Photos...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I'm not a Gynecologist. "But I'll Take A Look"

Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth...
Mike Tyson

"Ya'll can go to hell, I'm goin' to Texas!"...Davey Crockett

Last edited by weljo2001; 10-22-2014 at 01:42 PM.
weljo2001 is online now  
post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-10-2012, 02:37 PM
Member
 
twowheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 3,353
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Garage
My bike runs flawlessly in cold temps without a ThermoBob so I don't see a real advantage to one. My gas mileage is lower in cold temps but then I realized my rides get shorter and I stay away from long distance highway cruising in cold temperatures too. As for the condensation, this is created by the combustion process, a long ride should allow the engine to heat up enough to evaporate this.
twowheels is offline  
post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-10-2012, 02:48 PM
Member
 
weljo2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Norwalk CA
Posts: 15,646
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by twowheels View Post
My bike runs flawlessly in cold temps without a ThermoBob so I don't see a real advantage to one. My gas mileage is lower in cold temps but then I realized my rides get shorter and I stay away from long distance highway cruising in cold temperatures too. As for the condensation, this is created by the combustion process, a long ride should allow the engine to heat up enough to evaporate this.


Originally Posted by ttpete
Some of us have the background and knowledge to understand the benefits of a quick warmup and consistent running temperature. Others do not.

For those who understand, no explanation is necessary.

For those who don't or won't understand, no explanation will ever be sufficient.

The literature is out there. Study it if you want.

I have no intention of getting into a shouting match with people who obviously have no knowledge of proper cooling system design.

2009 Blue Versys.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Sold
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Farkles...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Video Channel
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Photos...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I'm not a Gynecologist. "But I'll Take A Look"

Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth...
Mike Tyson

"Ya'll can go to hell, I'm goin' to Texas!"...Davey Crockett
weljo2001 is online now  
post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-10-2012, 05:12 PM
Member
 
Baron650's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 943
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Now, now, boys, play nice. There's no point in bringing back an old scold, much less doing it twice!

For those of you who are a type-A perfectionists and can't stand the thought of wild temperature swings, adding the t-bob should do the trick.
For those who like to play it fast & loose, spending their money on good tires and good times, hey, it's all good. You probably can't kill the thing anyway. Much more likely that you'll trade it or sell it before you off it with your benign neglect.
Sorta on the subject- I was in the Beemer shop the other day shooting the breeze with a sales guy I know. They had an '09 KLR on the floor that they'd taken in trade. We were talking about the changes and what they hadn't changed, mostly the motor. He told me about a friend of his who had one (an earlier one) and got 100k miles on it without ever opening the motor. The one thing he did do was let it warm up to temp before he'd romp on it. "let the needle come up and start to go back down" in Rainer's words. Then he'd run it at redline the rest of the day.
I never asked about the Doohickey, didn't want to open that can of worms!
Baron650 is offline  
post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-10-2012, 06:24 PM
Member
 
Capn Kirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virginia USA
Posts: 4,740
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron650 View Post
I never asked about the Doohickey, didn't want to open that can of worms!
Whats a Doohickey?? Just kiddin' had to ask! I am sure without a new Doohickey it would have been impossible to make 100,000 miles... Just sayin'
Capn Kirk is offline  
post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-10-2012, 09:25 PM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,846
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTS View Post
Invader and weljo do you guys both have a Thermo-Bob installed? If so, do you think the install was fairly easy?
After reading about the T-bob and where I live. I need this installed right away. Would you not agree? Thanks again!
I installed a modified Stant SuperStat thermostat instead, which is why I had removed my thermostat cover... The original thermostat cover O-ring had shrunk and hardened enough to require replacing it.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ad.php?t=14524
invader is offline  
post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-10-2012, 11:03 PM
MTS
Member
 
MTS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NW USA
Posts: 3,518
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
I installed a modified Stant SuperStat thermostat instead, which is why I had removed my thermostat cover... The original thermostat cover O-ring had shrunk and hardened enough to require replacing it.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ad.php?t=14524
I would much perfer what you have done opposed to T-Bob. I read your forum link, thank you very much! In that you said you would know how it worked in the winter. Do you feel you have had good results from this change of stat with that size bypass hole? "Excellent Idea!"





To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
( RIDE FREE BE SAFE )
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MTS is offline  
post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-10-2012, 11:35 PM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,846
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTS View Post
I would much perfer what you have done opposed to T-Bob. I read your forum link, thank you very much! In that you said you would know how it worked in the winter. Do you feel you have had good results from this change of stat with that size bypass hole? "Excellent Idea!"
Yeah it works well. Quicker warmups, and down to normal idle in about 40 seconds after a cold startup in ~70F ambient temperature... I can't ride in our real winter conditions from late October till early April.
Grinding the SuperStat down to size for a perfect fit is not for anyone to attempt though... I strongly recommend Thermo-Bob's state-of-the-art ready to install radiator bypass system.
invader is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Versys Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome