Stator and/or R/R Electrical Issue? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-19-2011, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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Stator and/or R/R Electrical Issue?

I read thru a hand full of posts about this subject and my best guess at this point is that my 2009 (38K Miles) is about ready to throw down its first real problem at me.

Here is what just started to me about 2 days ago:

Monday:
Rolling to a stop with the clutch in at idle RPM and the motor stalled. It started back up but with little hint of hesitation. Happen 2 more times on
my way home.

Tuesday:
Doing tire/chain maintenance with the bike is on swing arm stand.
Start the engine and immediately I notice the head light and display flickering and engine sputtering. I rev the throttle and it clears for several seconds and starts the same crap again. I then ride for a while and notice
nothing else odd.

Weds (today):
Rode for about 90 minutes after work and when I was rolling into my front patio where I park the same crap happens. While the bike is in neutral at idle RPMs the light starts flickering, engine sputters and dies. Starts back up with a hint of hesitation so I know we are on the verge of a problem.

Limited trouble shooting performed:

Pulls the seat and connected a DMM to the battery terminals (both terminals are good and tight and no corrosion).

Standing Open Circuit Voltage is 12.84 Volts

Turn the Key to the on position and the voltage reads 12.39 volts.


Start the engine and voltage slowly starts to climb so I rolled the throttle to
about 2000RPM and the voltage climbed to 14.3 Volts
(Head light is on low beam setting only other load is PC-IV module)
Take the engine to 4000RPM voltage drops to 14.17 Volts
Let the engine go back to idle (~1100 RPM) voltage climbs back to 14.6 Volts
Turn on Hi-Beam and Flashers voltage drops to 13.0 Volts (still at idle)
Take the RPM to 2000 voltage climbs back to 14.5 Volts.

Other observations in addition to readings above:

While only Low Beam on running at Idle voltage was approx 14.5 volts and the all of a sudden the measured voltage dropped quickly to about 13.3 volts and the engine sputtered and stalled. Re-started (again just a hit of hesitation) and the voltage took about a minute or more to climb back to 14.5 (the radiator fan may have been on at that point but hard to tell because I have a 2 Bros Pipe).

So, I ask of all of you smart people in Planet Versys; Do I have an oncoming electrical problem that will soon render the bike "broke down"on the side of the road?

I do have the Kawasaki Good Times 5 Year Warranty so I am hoping electrical issues like this are covered.

Much thanks

Matt in Cape C.

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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-19-2011, 08:48 PM
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You have a loose connection. Battery is good if bike re starts after stall. Standing voltage confirms that.

Alternator is OK, charging voltage is right on the money.

Stalling is from a loose connection, possibly a ground or more than that. Possibly a burned connection (still bad connection) or relay or in the fuse box.

Check the biggest wires first, battery cables and ground, Then go to the starter look for corrosion or loose wires. Next fuse box..... Maybe a pinched wire going to the steering head or ign switch.

That will keep you busy

David
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-19-2011, 09:23 PM
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Also check your R/R connector. Some problems have occured from it being exposed to elements without a hugger or splash guard. Keep it clean and protected with dielectric compound. Oxidation may also build up on the main fuse prongs and other connectors, battery posts, etc ...

http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~sh...tml#Question_6
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-19-2011, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David RSparky3 View Post
You have a loose connection. Battery is good if bike re starts after stall. Standing voltage confirms that.

Alternator is OK, charging voltage is right on the money.

Stalling is from a loose connection, possibly a ground or more than that. Possibly a burned connection (still bad connection) or relay or in the fuse box.

Check the biggest wires first, battery cables and ground, Then go to the starter look for corrosion or loose wires. Next fuse box..... Maybe a pinched wire going to the steering head or ign switch.

That will keep you busy

David

Nooooooooooooo!!!!! My KLR650 had an intermittent short under the dash on a 12V line that went to the instrument panel. Took me 2 days to find it and repair it.
Now a possible intermittent open on the Versys! Not liking the sound of that at all.

A loose ground sounds very reasonable but why only at idle RPMs?
The first time it stalled I was at idle but I was rolling at about 15 MPH.
Also, I was riding on some bumpy roads today, I would think that an intermittent open would manifest some odd glitches then.

Thanks for the input.

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2013 Ducati MultiStrada -- Base Model
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-20-2011, 06:32 AM
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I can't diagnose your bike from here.

I have been a mechanic all my life. You described a poor connection quite well. Your voltage readings are spot on and you took the right ones. All that is left is pinched wire, poor connection at a plug or switch. Possibly green stuff (corrosion) invading a connection or wire. This is what most electrical problems turn out to be.

Good luck, be patient keep looking. Perhaps you could wiggle wires with the bike running and duplicate the problem.

David
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-20-2011, 08:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
Also check your R/R connector. Some problems have occured from it being exposed to elements without a hugger or splash guard. Keep it clean and protected with dielectric compound. Oxidation may also build up on the main fuse prongs and other connectors, battery posts, etc ...

http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~sh...tml#Question_6
So I pulled the R/R off the bike and inspected the connector. No issue or corrosion present--pretty clean actually. Where I am duped is I attempted to perform the resistance check called out in the service manual:

W1 to BK-1, W1 to BK-2, Etc.... and not matter which combination I attempted I got all opens. Shorted my leads and it reads .2 ohms so I know my meter is working for measuring wire resistance but maybe it does not have enough juice to bias the diodes? So I switched my meter to diode mode and still all opens (if it saw diode(s) it would have displayed voltage drop values). I am thinking my cheap $12 DMM is maybe not quite right or I did something bone headed.

Rode the bike to work today and after dinner tonight and not once did it give me any issues. Going to keep and eye on it for now.

Current Bikes
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2015 Triumph Street Triple R -- Matte Black
2013 Ducati MultiStrada -- Base Model
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-20-2011, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjfields_228 View Post
So I pulled the R/R off the bike and inspected the connector. No issue or corrosion present--pretty clean actually. Where I am duped is I attempted to perform the resistance check called out in the service manual:

W1 to BK-1, W1 to BK-2, Etc.... and not matter which combination I attempted I got all opens. Shorted my leads and it reads .2 ohms so I know my meter is working for measuring wire resistance but maybe it does not have enough juice to bias the diodes? So I switched my meter to diode mode and still all opens (if it saw diode(s) it would have displayed voltage drop values). I am thinking my cheap $12 DMM is maybe not quite right or I did something bone headed.

Rode the bike to work today and after dinner tonight and not once did it give me any issues. Going to keep and eye on it for now.
Please keep updated as this something very interested.

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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjfields_228 View Post
So I pulled the R/R off the bike and inspected the connector. No issue or corrosion present--pretty clean actually. Where I am duped is I attempted to perform the resistance check called out in the service manual:

W1 to BK-1, W1 to BK-2, Etc.... and not matter which combination I attempted I got all opens. Shorted my leads and it reads .2 ohms so I know my meter is working for measuring wire resistance but maybe it does not have enough juice to bias the diodes? So I switched my meter to diode mode and still all opens (if it saw diode(s) it would have displayed voltage drop values). I am thinking my cheap $12 DMM is maybe not quite right or I did something bone headed.

Rode the bike to work today and after dinner tonight and not once did it give me any issues. Going to keep and eye on it for now.
It looks like there is a seperate regulator and rectifier test. The regulator test requiring 12V. Did you do that? Even though the connectors looked fine by removing/installing you may have improved a connection somewhere. Hope you resolve it.
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 06:52 AM Thread Starter
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It looks like there is a seperate regulator and rectifier test. The regulator test requiring 12V. Did you do that? Even though the connectors looked fine by removing/installing you may have improved a connection somewhere. Hope you resolve it.
Did not do the voltage test. I would have had to make up test leads for that and I am not quite there yet on how far to poke around given the fact that everything else seem nominal at this point.

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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 07:29 AM
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ISnip....
Pulls the seat and connected a DMM to the battery terminals (both terminals are good and tight and no corrosion).

Standing Open Circuit Voltage is 12.84 Volts

Turn the Key to the on position and the voltage reads 12.39 volts.


Start the engine and voltage slowly starts to climb so I rolled the throttle to
about 2000RPM and the voltage climbed to 14.3 Volts
(Head light is on low beam setting only other load is PC-IV module)
Take the engine to 4000RPM voltage drops to 14.17 Volts
Let the engine go back to idle (~1100 RPM) voltage climbs back to 14.6 Volts
Turn on Hi-Beam and Flashers voltage drops to 13.0 Volts (still at idle)
Take the RPM to 2000 voltage climbs back to 14.5 Volts.

Other observations in addition to readings above:

While only Low Beam on running at Idle voltage was approx 14.5 volts and the all of a sudden the measured voltage dropped quickly to about 13.3 volts and the engine sputtered and stalled. Re-started (again just a hit of hesitation) and the voltage took about a minute or more to climb back to 14.5 (the radiator fan may have been on at that point but hard to tell because I have a 2 Bros Pipe).

snip

Matt in Cape C.
Regulator good..... You proved it right there.

Intermittent are a pain in the azz.

Perhaps you lost ign voltage to everything with a poor connection. No voltage to RR and none to spark. Bike quit. Battery voltage shows it stopped charging at the same time, sort of like you turned the key off but only for charging and spark or fuel.

Good luck, unfortunately you have to ride it and find it. I doubt Kawasaki could do any better than you have SO FAR.

David
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 08:36 AM
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Question....are you sure the motor stumbling is not CAUSING the voltage irregularities? Rather than vice-versa?

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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
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Question....are you sure the motor stumbling is not CAUSING the voltage irregularities? Rather than vice-versa?
I am totally with you on that. The voltage dropped to the battery level because the stator stopped turning! So I thought it was my idle being set too low but it was right around 1300rpm so--MAYBE--I am starting to get a little bit of build up of **** in my fuel injection system. And when at idle the fuel flow is interrupted just enough to stave the ignition. I go thru at least 2 tanks a week (if not 10) so the gas is never long within the system.

I have 38K miles on the bike and take good care of it. I have done Florida to Maine and back and want to do Florida to California and back someday soon. I just want to be sure I have a sound electrical system before rolling out!

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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-21-2011, 10:23 AM
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Question....are you sure the motor stumbling is not CAUSING the voltage irregularities? Rather than vice-versa?
Good point, which came first the chicken or the egg.

Voltage only went down a little. Bike will or should run on 9.6 volts like when the starter is cranking.
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-24-2011, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
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Good point, which came first the chicken or the egg.

Voltage only went down a little. Bike will or should run on 9.6 volts like when the starter is cranking.
Well the Saga continues. After an absolutely beautiful weekend of riding with excellent running and starting the whole time it seems like the gremlin is back again.

The bike started perfect this morning and ran well the whole way to work.

Then, when I left for the day in the early afternoon (2pm), the temperature was about 75 degrees and humidity was probably 70% the weird **** started happening again. This time different than before.

Pressed the starter and it clicked 3 or 4 times with no cranking. So I let off the button for 2 or 3 seconds and pressed it again and it cranked over this time. It took a couple seconds to start (this was new to me).

Once started it was sputtering at about 700RPM so I twisted the throttle just a tad to about 3K and it hesitated and then went back to 700RPM when I let off. So then I revved it and the cold start seem to kick in and it was idling at about 1700RPM.

As I rode off I notice it was jerky and exhibiting noticeable hesitation when the throttle rolled on to about 1/8ish to almost 1/4. The whole way home, regardless of speed or gear I was in when I had the throttle rolled one from just a crack to about 1/4 the same ****. 1/2 throttle and higher revs I cannot notice it.

It nearly stalled each time I would start rolling from a complete stop. I had to fan the clutch and rev the engine to get underway. It felt like my old 1979 RM100 2 stroke dirt bike all over.

I have yet to do any follow-up voltage testing.

I am sort of thinking electrical/ECU issue but it is only a hunch.

The bike is just now at 40,000 miles and I bought it new in July of 2010 so it has about 16 months cumulative life cycle on it.

Hit me with your thoughts VERSYS peoples!

Thanks

Matt in Cape Canaveral, Florida

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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-24-2011, 07:04 PM
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Maybe another fried stator?
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-24-2011, 07:12 PM
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Bingo!

Quote:
Pressed the starter and it clicked 3 or 4 times with no cranking
Dead give away. Loose battery connection, + or -, bad ground, bad connection at the starter or bad battery. (bad connection IN the battery)

It COULD be a relay or relay connection. but first you have to check battery and cables etc.

The only thing you did not check is cranking voltage. Hook to the battery and crank the engine. It should not go lower than 9.6 v. The rest of the symptoms could be from the computer blanking out from lack of voltage.

I really doubt its the ECM or ECU or what ever you call it, they rarely go bad. This would NOT cause the clicking while trying to start it.
David
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-24-2011, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
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Dead give away. Loose battery connection, + or -, bad ground, bad connection at the starter or bad battery. (bad connection IN the battery)

It COULD be a relay or relay connection. but first you have to check battery and cables etc.

The only thing you did not check is cranking voltage. Hook to the battery and crank the engine. It should not go lower than 9.6 v. The rest of the symptoms could be from the computer blanking out from lack of voltage.

I really doubt its the ECM or ECU or what ever you call it, they rarely go bad. This would NOT cause the clicking while trying to start it.
David
Just a little more information that came about tonight. I was going to starting doing some voltage tests so I was in the process of starting the bike to ride from my parking lot into my front patio. Well, as started it up and it rummbled and ran super rough. Without touching the throttle the RPM ramped up to about 3000! I crank the throttle a little and the RPMs decreased--huh???. When I let off the throttle the RPMs increased again. My first thought was that my throttle cable might be pinched by the handle bars and I was side loading it causing to rev up, but this was NOT the case. Then my FI light came on. The bike then revved down to about 700RPM and the FI light started blinking off and on. They it started ramping back up to about 3000rpm and the FI light shut off! I shut the bike off and rolled it into my patio. Grounding issues notwithstanding, there is something more electrically compromised with the bike.

First course of business is I am going to pull my Power Commander IV out of the equation. I know it is NOT responsible. But I have 3.5 years left on my good times roll Warranty and at this point I am going to punt and just let my local shop screw it up more, I mean fix it for me. With the Power Commanders inclusion at the shop it will only cause them to blame it so I need to deal with tank and air box removal--no biggie.

The burning question is: It is 12 miles to the Kawasaki Dealer. Do I go commando and ride the bucking Bronco the whole way having no idea if it make it there without going totally fubar? Or call the truck?

Hmmmmmmm

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2013 Ducati MultiStrada -- Base Model
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-24-2011, 09:19 PM
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Flashing FI light to me means bike is doing damage to the catylic converter because of poor running like misfire or way too rich. Hopefully Invader will correct me if I am wrong. Its what a car does.

All could be from a poor connection some where, it could also be screwing with your PC IV.

While rooting around in there taking the PC off, check for poor connections at both ends of the battery cables. Look for green stuff on the wires or ends.

Good luck.

Where I come from "Go Commando" means No shorts.....

David

My last bike was a KLX250SF. It had an occasional misfire from when I bought it with 2,000 miles on it until I finally found it at around 7,000 miles. I went big bore and bigger carb, none of these made any difference in the occasional misfire at 6500 rpm. In the end it was a poor ground to the Rectifier /Regulator. I put a Tee splice in the ground wire (yellow/black) to the RR and went to the engine case. Misfire went away. This worked for many others too. I am not saying this is your problem at all.

If all a man has is a hammer, he sees his problems as nails. I carry a volt meter.

Last edited by David RSparky3; 10-24-2011 at 09:25 PM.
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-24-2011, 09:54 PM
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+1..to all the comments...my bet, bad ground....somewhere.

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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-24-2011, 09:59 PM
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