Surging Anyone...? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-22-2011, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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Surging Anyone...?

Ever since I collected my new V back in April I've been convinced that it suffers from a noticeable engine surge at low speed - typically 15-45 mph and in gears 2/3/4. I made a point yesterday of sitting at a steady 40 mph in 3rd and 4th gears and could feel the bike pulling back and forth. Wind the bike up and give it some stick and it's as smooth as can be. The chain is correctly tensioned so that's not the issue. It's got to the point now that it's going back in to the dealers for a look-see. Possibly there's something going on with the fuel injection - I don't know. Is it possible to plug these bikes in for a diagnostics check like you would do to a car? Does anyone else suffer from similar issues or is it 'just how it is' with the V. It's kinda taking the shine off a great bike.
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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-22-2011, 06:47 PM
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Mine does it a little but more bothersome is the flat spot right off idle. The fuel injection cold use a little tweaking on this bike in my opinion. Its probably the way it is so that it complies with emissions.

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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-22-2011, 06:53 PM
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Yeah i get it to primarilly below 30 mph


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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-22-2011, 08:57 PM
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Surging is caused by a lean air/fuel mixture, especially near 2800 rpm. Setting the main throttle sensor to about 0.5mm~1mm counterclockwise is an easy fix... A 6" long 1/8" ID hose coupler on TB vacuum fittings also helps smooth out low end throttle response.
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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-22-2011, 09:34 PM
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Are you 100% sure on the chain? I got that when I was destroying my chain last week. I get a little stumble because of the flat spot in the idle, but I'd hardly call it surging.

Steve
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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-24-2011, 01:24 AM Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=lonerockz;167676]Are you 100% sure on the chain? I got that when I was destroying my chain last week. I get a little stumble because of the flat spot in the idle, but I'd hardly call it surging.

Thanks for the thought Steve, but no, the chain is bang on for adjustment. With the replies from others on here it seems I may just be experiencing what is just 'normal' with the V. The surging that I'm feeling seems to be in line with other comments. It's hardly neck-breaking, just slight. The bike is booked in with the dealer on 3rd Sept so it'll be interesting to see what they come up with, which will probably be nothing... Thamks for the thoughts all anyway.
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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-24-2011, 01:16 PM
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I had the "surging issue" on my 2011 V when shifting into 2nd & 3rd gear. Adjusting the engine rpm "idle" seems to have resolved most of it. I adjusted the idle to run at 1350-1400 rpm after a 1-3 minute warmup. On a cold start the initial rpms are around 1500 but drop down to 1300-1400 on warmup. Before the rpms dropped to around 1100 & I had the surging problem. I'm not sure but I guess adjusting the idle speed up to the 1350-1400 range changes the air/fuel mix in the fuel injection?

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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-24-2011, 06:28 PM
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I'm not sure but I guess adjusting the idle speed up to the 1350-1400 range changes the air/fuel mix in the fuel injection?
No, idle has to be set to 1300 rpm... A throttle body vacuum synchronization adjustment may also help if it's a bit off.
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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-24-2011, 10:11 PM
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1300 rpm

Check if the fuel line is not kinked. (Unlikely)
Don't think so there are air intake leaks..
Is the PCV tube clean?
Do you suspect any dirt in the throttle bodies??
Try different gas pump?

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post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-24-2011, 10:40 PM
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No, idle has to be set to 1300 rpm... A throttle body vacuum synchronization adjustment may also help if it's a bit off.
I read in the V service manual that the idle should be 1300 +/- 50... At about 1350-1400 (just eye-balling it) most of the surging problem (1st>2nd>3rd) stopped for me. YMMV. Technically it may be incorrect (I don't know) but it is working so far for me. I hope I'm not screwing something up...

KJ

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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-25-2011, 03:31 AM
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I read in the V service manual that the idle should be 1300 +/- 50... At about 1350-1400 (just eye-balling it) most of the surging problem (1st>2nd>3rd) stopped for me. YMMV. Technically it may be incorrect (I don't know) but it is working so far for me. I hope I'm not screwing something up...
That's fine then. Better to have idle at 1350-1400 than at 1100.
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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-25-2011, 06:26 AM Thread Starter
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Can't think off the top of my head what the start-up idle and warm idle speeds are on mine - will make a point of making a note when I next use the bike. I do recall thinking that it tends to cold idle at around 1400 rpm but for, what I consider, to be a longish period of time. Consequently, with the high idle It goes into 1st with a 'crash'
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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-25-2011, 09:33 AM
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No, idle has to be set to 1300 rpm... A throttle body vacuum synchronization adjustment may also help if it's a bit off.
Lately, temps in the 75-95 deg. range, immediately upon starting for the first time in the morning the RPMs start at 1200 after about 10 -15 sec it goes to 1500 and when I ride off ( within 30 sec ) it goes to 2000 RPM for about a minute, after that all is fine and normal. 2011 with 2800 miles.
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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-25-2011, 04:44 PM
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Lately, temps in the 75-95 deg. range, immediately upon starting for the first time in the morning the RPMs start at 1200 after about 10 -15 sec it goes to 1500 and when I ride off ( within 30 sec ) it goes to 2000 RPM for about a minute, after that all is fine and normal. 2011 with 2800 miles.
That's fine. Those are good warm up rpm's. As long as your normal idle with engine up to normal operating temperature is at 1300 (+/- 50) rpm.
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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-30-2011, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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Managed to get some time with the V this weekend - here's some more results and thoughts:

Start up from cold on Saturday morning, OAT 16.5 Deg C

1500 - 1800 RPM - hunting between these revs for 1 min
1600 rpm at 1 min 8 secs
1500 rpm at 1 min 30 secs
1400 - 1500 rpm at 2 mins
1400 rpm steady at 2 mins 30 secs
1300 - 1400 rpm at 3 mins
1200-1250 steady at 3 mins 28 secs

I did a ride of 225 miles in total paying very close attention to the surging characteristics. Once warmed up after a dozen miles or so, holding the bike steady at 4000 rpm in any gear results in the surging feeling. Roll the throttle off and it's as lumpy and jerky as hell. Anything below 3k or above 4k is fine. Would very much appreciate it if some of you guys could do the same thing and let me know how yours behaves. I also get an occassional misfire on roll-off (sounds like a quick hiss or a spit...!) This is really starting to get on my tits (good ole British saying) and I'll be very interested to see what the dealer can tell me this weekend coming. Pic is of the bike at settled idle. If I can't get this sorted I'm going back to a Zed....!
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post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-30-2011, 03:06 PM
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NO WONDER it's surging - you've got an Airbus key! (from an 'old' ..."AirBus driver" before retirement.... About 4,000 hours A320/ 319/ 340/ 330)

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post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-30-2011, 05:44 PM
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690 miles on my new Red 11 V.

It seems to me the computer turns off the fuel when throttle is closed when coasting at over 2,000 rpm give or take. Opening the throttle makes no fuel to fuel and it feels like a surge.

That is my opinion. I also turned the idle down to 1000 and its pretty sweet. Consistent and smooth. Flat spot went away so far.

Cold idle is 1500 to 2000 for a short while. Then it drops to 1,000 and stays there. Hot starts are fine.


With the idle at 1300, it would change and hunt, never being exactly steady.

I just did this today.


I know manual says 1250. Manual also says we should be in 6th gear at 34 mph.


David

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post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-30-2011, 07:24 PM
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NO WONDER it's surging - you've got an Airbus key! (from an 'old' ..."AirBus driver" before retirement.... About 4,000 hours A320/ 319/ 340/ 330)
Since this thread was started I was wondering what was being talked about. I have a very different view of the term "engine surge." Long ago, it used to work a number on some engines in the Tomahawk. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressor_stall
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post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-31-2011, 06:41 AM Thread Starter
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NO WONDER it's surging - you've got an Airbus key! (from an 'old' ..."AirBus driver" before retirement.... About 4,000 hours A320/ 319/ 340/ 330)
Ha..! - well spotted Fastedddie. A few years back when the A380 was undergoing certification for a C of A, I was involved in giving permissions for it to enter UK airspace for testing. When all was done, it got sent a big box of goodies from Airbus...

DavidRSparky3 - You're dead right when you say "It seems to me the computer turns off the fuel when throttle is closed when coasting at over 2,000 rpm give or take. Opening the throttle makes no fuel to fuel and it feels like a surge."

Thanks to all for your comments and experiences - keep 'em coming because I find it difficult to believe that we all live with, what appears to be, a poorly fuelled bike
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post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-01-2011, 10:54 PM
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I have a 2011 Versys with 1600 miles on the clock. Love the bike, but since it's my first, not much to compare it with. Anyway, that said, I have the surging too - 3-4k revs, around 35mph in 2-4 gears. Looks like a feature to me.
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