Alternative to ABS - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 07:04 AM Thread Starter
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Alternative to ABS

I was just wondering if any one has tried this system. If it works like they claim i would have it on my Versys asap. I am convinced my face plant last year was a direct result of me grabbin to much front brake. Since my accident i have studied & read everything i can find on the subject. Ride safe, Bulldozer

http://www.tcbbrakesystems.com

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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 07:44 AM
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After reading this, I don't think so: http://www.thebikergene.com/modifica...aking-systems/

Did it happen with original front tire, and how worn was it?
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 07:46 AM
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I don't know anything about that product, however through my experience nothing ABS or otherwise, will help avoid an accident better than practicing quick stops.

I been using the one second count to full brake....this allows the weight to shift to the front wheel giving it maximum traction before you are full on the brakes. A detailed description is outlined in the book "Proficient Motorcycling".

What I'm trying to say is even if these things work, never rely on a gadget, ABS or anything else other than your own skills..
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldozer View Post
I was just wondering if any one has tried this system. If it works like they claim i would have it on my Versys asap. I am convinced my face plant last year was a direct result of me grabbin to much front brake. Since my accident i have studied & read everything i can find on the subject. Ride safe, Bulldozer

http://www.tcbbrakesystems.com
From what I have read about TCB and its rubber and air expansion chamber, it says it works by providing "give". You know, like thinner rubber brake lines would do.

It is the opposite of what most people do; Installing steel braided brake lines for better brake feel.

So no, I think it is absolutely not an alternative to ABS, which is to be expected at 5-10% of the cost of ABS.
At the price it might be worth it for you to try it out, but don't expect miracles. You will get better results by practicing braking regularly or getting a bike with ABS.
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by offcamber View Post
I don't know anything about that product, however through my experience nothing ABS or otherwise, will help avoid an accident better than practicing quick stops.

I been using the one second count to full brake....this allows the weight to shift to the front wheel giving it maximum traction before you are full on the brakes. A detailed description is outlined in the book "Proficient Motorcycling".

What I'm trying to say is even if these things work, never rely on a gadget, ABS or anything else other than your own skills..
Question is, can you do that 100% of the time? Rain, shine, gravel, sand... ? Are you able to be perfectly calm, have full concentration, cool and calculating in emergency situations and again, 100% of the time? ABS can.... Many people still argue the validity of seat belts, airbags, and helmets.... It scared a lot of people when they invented trains, too....

Richard

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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 09:16 AM
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Still think nothing will beat practicing emergency braking at open road speed especially with just your front brake, learn to throttle off, load up front shocks then bring her to a quick stop in a controlled manner, the more you do it the more instinctive it will become in a emergency. I am all for any tech that improves safety but you can't beat old fashioned skill practice.

Phil
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 09:27 AM
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Still think nothing will beat practicing emergency braking at open road speed especially with just your front brake, learn to throttle off, load up front shocks then bring her to a quick stop in a controlled manner, the more you do it the more instinctive it will become in a emergency. I am all for any tech that improves safety but you can't beat old fashioned skill practice.

Phil
Of course, practice, practice and more practice those skills... Don't know about you, but I wouldn't skydive without a reserve parachute.... ABS doesn't replace good riding skills... it's there backing you up because humans make mistakes....

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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 09:36 AM
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Got them on both the front and back brakes and I am confident on brake. Brakes fell a bit soft and no lock up so far despite doing 17K km on all kind of roads ( no dirt road).

to me it works and I feel a split second of feeling before lock up can save a lot trouble and cost against the actual ABS is fractional, so I am happy with the system.

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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 10:28 AM
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An alternate to ABS that works.

Simply get something like any old KDX or XR and go have some fun in the dirt. My experience is that most of the big fans of ABS are those who have never been in the dirt. Conversely, a large percentage of experienced dirt riders have no use for ABS. Hey, it works for me and all my dirt riding buds.

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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 11:15 AM
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I like technology ABS, traction controll. Those who dont I am sure got rid of those new fangle disk brakes and installed drum brakes immediatly right?
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 12:21 PM
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Most of these things are snake oil but I was curious how it works and I found this



at http://www.eglidegoodies.com/id254.html

If you were prone to grab to much brake too fast in a panic situation it looks like it could work to stop you from locking the brake[s]. I personally did that once and totaled at ST1100. The other side of the equation is that it would also seem to make the brakes have less feel (spongy) which is what good brake systems try to avoid. As far as allowing you to to stop in a shorter distance, I'm from Missouri, the "show me" state and I wouldn't believe it until I personally tested it or a good qualified source such as "Motorcycle Consumer News" or "Cycle World" tested it.
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFZ6 View Post
Question is, can you do that 100% of the time? Rain, shine, gravel, sand... ? Are you able to be perfectly calm, have full concentration, cool and calculating in emergency situations and again, 100% of the time? ABS can.... Many people still argue the validity of seat belts, airbags, and helmets.... It scared a lot of people when they invented trains, too....

Richard
That's why you practice...you can't predict every situation but you will do what you are in the habit of doing....so practicing emergency braking, driving on grave, control become the habit....you don't think about it you just do it...its proven...I'm not against technology nor am I afraid of it as you imply. I simple stated that I would NOT rely on it....any expert will tell you that practicing skills is the best defense against a crash...


All these "safety" devices they tend to dull the need for skill...even in a car. Traction Control ABS etc are for people that really don't know how to drive....yes in high performance cars they are almost a must but in a small car its just making up for lack of skill on the drivers part. Its like point and shoot camera....great for people who just want a snap shot but the true photographer uses manual settings because every situation cannot be predicted.

ABS, Auto matic setting traction control are all tools to aid us but they should not replace basic skills.

Last edited by offcamber; 03-28-2011 at 01:18 PM.
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 04:43 PM
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When it comes to ABS I rememberd reading an article in Motorcyclist Magazine a couple of years ago. Here is part of there evaluation.

2009 Honda CBR600RR-ABS Versus US

We conducted simulated panic stops on dry pavement, and again, the ABS engagement is so smooth that the only indication it was activated was a numbness at the lever. It took us a couple of tries before we were able to better the C-ABS' rate of deceleration (and note again that this was with an expert rider at the controls). Meanwhile, the more level chassis attitude and stable feel of the C-ABS bike will surely help the majority of riders stop more quickly and safely in a real emergency. And in the wet? Forget it: Even a pro-level rider wouldn't be able to reach the first-time stopping distance or deceleration rate of the C-ABS bike.

I also read and I cant find the article the BMW 1000RR the experts couldnt even beat the ABS system in the dry. Practice all you want but give me ABS
in a driving rain and a truck pulling out in front of you.
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 04:48 PM
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Not bleeding all the air out of your brake lines will do the exact same thing - make them spongy and less precise. This is like the miracle fuel atomizer that will make you car get 200 mpg.
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 06:45 PM Thread Starter
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After reading this, I don't think so: http://www.thebikergene.com/modifica...aking-systems/

Did it happen with original front tire, and how worn was it?
Yes it was the factory tire it had 1500 miles on it, i was on concrete . Dog ran out etc. Since my original thread i have read a bunch of reviews on TCB it seems the majority that have installed them are very happy , it also seems most of the naysayers are experts at just about everything BUT never tried the device out...My perspective is that anything i can do to prevent me leaving more skin and bone on the road is a good investment, and i do ride ALOT, everyday, rain or shine to the tune of about 25-30k miles a year. Now dont get me started on the car tire i have on my cruiser, i spent 3 years reading how a car tire wasnt made for a M/C bla bla bla > well i disagree its great, more traction, better ride so on & so on. So im tryin this stuff out for myself before i believe the all the negative hype from folks that cant get out of the box. Bulldozer, not flaming just feelin all that testosterone cream i hafta rub on everyday...

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08 V 900 hers and all tricked out
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 08:10 PM
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When it comes to ABS I rememberd reading an article in Motorcyclist Magazine a couple of years ago. Here is part of there evaluation.

2009 Honda CBR600RR-ABS Versus US

We conducted simulated panic stops on dry pavement, and again, the ABS engagement is so smooth that the only indication it was activated was a numbness at the lever. It took us a couple of tries before we were able to better the C-ABS' rate of deceleration (and note again that this was with an expert rider at the controls). Meanwhile, the more level chassis attitude and stable feel of the C-ABS bike will surely help the majority of riders stop more quickly and safely in a real emergency. And in the wet? Forget it: Even a pro-level rider wouldn't be able to reach the first-time stopping distance or deceleration rate of the C-ABS bike.

I also read and I cant find the article the BMW 1000RR the experts couldnt even beat the ABS system in the dry. Practice all you want but give me ABS
in a driving rain and a truck pulling out in front of you.
+1

'14 Versys 650 (Green)
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 08:51 PM
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ABS good to have on all Motorcycles.

TCB- Better than nothing at all.

Both system needs practice and your kind input including dirt road experts.
What system you have is not a problem but how you learn to use it is important.


Last edited by Fastoman; 03-28-2011 at 11:33 PM.
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 09:40 PM
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add me to the pro abs list please. I think it should be the law. I rode the BMW 1300, and convinced the abs kept the front wheel from locking up on gravel. I have some dirt bike skills, but never mastered locking the front brake to switch berms, like De Coster used to do. Front wheel lock on a corner always equals a fall for me.


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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 10:37 PM
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Are you getting one pair of TCB units? You can try it with a TCB on both calipers, or with just one on the master cylinder:

http://www2.2wf.com/index.php/produc...ystems?start=1

There are 4 levels of TCB valve diaphragm strength to choose from:

http://mainmoto.com.au/tcbcat/cat/TCBValve

(It's not about which one gives you the most or least amount of wheel slip, but rather what strength of diaphragm is better matched to your braking system's operating hydraulic pressure, which also depends on braking load and available traction...)
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 11:37 PM
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Are you getting one pair of TCB units? You can try it with a TCB on both calipers, or with just one on the master cylinder:

http://www2.2wf.com/index.php/produc...ystems?start=1

There are 4 levels of TCB valve diaphragm strength to choose from:

http://mainmoto.com.au/tcbcat/cat/TCBValve

(It's not about which one gives you the most or least amount of wheel slip, but rather what strength of diaphragm is better matched to your braking system's operating hydraulic pressure, which also depends on braking load and available traction...)
For the front brakes you will need to install one at the master as TCB doesn't have long banjo for double coupling. So I have one in the front master and one at the back brakes.

Work fine.

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