Hesitation / Popping from 4k to 6.5k - at my wits end - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 07:10 PM Thread Starter
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Hmmm... all a bit technical for me regarding your data but it may be an idea to go back to basics? You do seem to have been quite thorough but maybe it is something simple...

"A random misfire usually means the air/fuel mixture is running lean. But the cause might be anything from a hard-to-find vacuum leak to dirty fuel injectors, low fuel pressure, a weak ignition coil, bad plug wires, or compression problems. Even a dirty MAF sensor can cause a lean code and/or misfire to occur".

I would have a look at the plugs and see what colour they are... may give a clue to mixture.

Intake leak - Spray manifold/head seals with carburetor cleaner, listen for RPM change.

Bad coil or wires - Check coil & wires with an ohmmeter, replace if bad. May be ok but breaking down under load?

If you have a mate with the same bike swap some bits over and see what happens...

Be methodical and isolate potential problems one at a time.

Best of luck...
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 10:57 PM
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So i've been chasing a stupid issue for nearly 2 years on my 2008 Versys 650. Ever since I've purchased it from a guy with 16,000 miles on it, i've noticed hesitation / popping in the mid-range on it. To get it out of the way, here's how the bike is set up:



1. My TPS voltage always reads kinda high-- but could this really throw it off that much to make the bike run so crazily? I've tried rotating it but not sure if it has an effect.
2. PAIR valve is still hooked up but i have it capped off so it can't suck in air. Could this cause any sort of issue? I see that there's some way where you can fully remove it from the bike and not throw an FI code, but i haven't done that.
3. A friend suggested that I could have an exhaust leak, and it's throwing things off, and that I should seal my mid pipe around the flange.
4. Another friend said that I need to pull my injectors off and clean them. But if that were the case, wouldn't it eventually get better/worse?
5. Previous owner dropped it on it's left side, and i noticed when working on it, the bracket for the MAF was missing and he had it zipped tied to the frame. Perhaps it got damaged and is throwing some weirdness into the mix?

Concerning the Power Commander, if i blank out the map to 0 adjustments across the board, it's relatively smooth but still exhibits some stuttering / popping in the same places, just not as bad or as loud. Allowing the Autotune to do it's thing only multiplies this effect.

If you notice, I have -2 in the off-throttle. Without it, the bike idles at around 12.3-12.5:1 AFR and smells like a boat with a fuel leak, and can be weird to start. With this, the AFR is around 13.6-14.1:1 and seems happier.

I really like this bike, but this issue is driving me crazy. When it runs nicely, it's a blast to ride, but i feel myself not trusting it in corners as it loves to lull you into a false sense of security then pop/surge at the worst possible moments.

ANY ideas at all?
Go into the manual and see the testing TPS, you need to post all those readings, you need a meter that reads 2 decimal places minimum, preferable 3 decimal places, second, you mention the vacuum hose mod, not a fan of that, I found that on my 07 it was as you describe around a boat, I do a lot of engine braking, I was dumping raw fuel into the air every time I engine braked, I changed that back after 1 week. I found the tweaking the TPS as suggested originally by Invader as the very best mod ever. The first 3 months I owned the 07 I considered selling it, moving the TPS turned a sluggish POS into a wild beast, after the change you would have needed to offer me double what I paid for it for me to part with it. I had that up until May 2016, when I switched to the 2015 650 ABS.
There have been others on this forum with a similar problem like yours, and according to invader the TPS is available. I am not a change parts guy, I need to know it is defective. You could have a corroded connection on the ECU. Doing all the voltage tests in the manual is key to pinpoint the problem, you might as well check the sub throttle sensor and post those results. That is where I would start. There is a harness made that is fairly cheap from Kawasaki, makes testing way easier.I would put 98% of my money on TPS.

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...34-post12.html

Last edited by onewizard; 02-25-2017 at 11:03 PM.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 11:36 PM
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Hmmm...

I have PCV and auto tune 200 - have a search at my other posts.

i think you are looking at it all wrong.

You MUST create an AFR map.
You have not shown us what your AFR values are for the autotune.

The AFR map is what you set
Zero out the fuel Map
ride around to get a AFR trim
save trim to fuel map
lower trim range to 5%

ride around and the AFR table generates an AFR trim table by trying to reach your AFR goal. The AFR trim is then dynamic mapping of fuel for conditions. but shows you where your fueling is to reach you goal.
Your fuel map is still zero

once you have ridden around a bit you can push your AFR trim values to your fuel map.
Now that you have a Fuel Map the AFR trim is set to zero and will recalculate what it need on top of the fuel map.
This Fuel Map is what people share as maps to suit engine mods etc.

Once you has set a fuel map, lower the range of auto tune from 20% to 5%, so now it is only changing the trim a little bit over the new Fuel map.

Remember the AFR Trim is dynamic and can change the fueling due to atmospheric conditions from temp and latitude and huminidy.
The Fuel map is static and that is what the PC will give you engine no matter what even if you turn off the Autotune or the 02 sensor fails.

So now your engine fueling is OEM + Fuel Map + AFR Trim.

When my bike seems a bit funny i reset all maps and trim to zero and start again.... can make a big difference.

Also... go and adjust your Throttle Sensor... the nice thing about the PCV is that you can adjust it perfectly as the PCV reads the Voltage. get it within Spec or upper range as stated in service manual.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 12:13 AM
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Ok.. read some more of OP post.

Put the airbox tubes baffles back in. you are loosing power.

Looks like you are playing with the fuel maps... - don't!
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 09:23 AM
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Threads like this make me glad I keep my bikes their stock configuration. If it ain't broke...

So many variables on the bike in this thread. Mind boggling.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by twowheeladdict View Post
Threads like this make me glad I keep my bikes their stock configuration. If it ain't broke...

So many variables on the bike in this thread. Mind boggling.
My initial thoughts (before Giggitt joined in), was to put the OEM muffler back on, and get rid of the Power Commander.

SO FAR - ALL three of my Vs (generally as they came-from-the-factory) have worked PDG, and that's over about 200,000 MILES!

When I was flying for a living, we had a couple of rules:

1. IF it ain't broke - DON'T 'fix' it!

2. And IF it ain't fixed - DON'T fly it!


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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 07:23 AM
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I don't understand why you are popping while accelerating.
That usually means air leaking into exhaust

Check the exhaust pipes for any cracks.... there have been threads were the pipe cracks just before the clamp where the exhaust joins the header. also check for cracks on the join pipe between the headers, as that is another place a crack can develop and let air in.
The cracks can be hairline and as the header expand from heat they can open up the crack and let air in.

Also might might have exhaust valve issues.
valves are either worn and you have compression leak into the headers
sticky vlaves not closing enough
valve shims out of spec.
Have you check valve clearances?

I also only plugged the pair valve pipe with a pen lid, I did not remove any of the pipework and can still here it activating. Pen lid is still doing it thing 3 years later.

I understand hesitation, I added my PCV+AT200 to remove the stuttering at 3000 rpm.

Run a test without the PCV... just zero out the AFR map and zero the fuel maps.
You will then be running purley on ECU fuel map. See if you still has poping etc. This will eliminate PCV and Autotune table entry issues.

BTW: is your bike originally fitted with an O2 sensor? did you buy and fit an O2 sensor eliminator and plug that into the factory harness when you unplugged the factory O2 sensor?
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Last edited by Gigitt; 02-27-2017 at 07:28 AM.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 07:55 AM
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attached is my AFR table

Note that putting anything in the zero throttle column is not recommended by PC.... but i read on some race and snowmobile forums that if you are popping on deceleration it is due to overfueling, and you can put in leaner values (higher AFR #) in the lower rpms to reduce the fuel and eliminate the pops... It works for me and my Leo Vince under body exhaust and i run without the db killer baffle.

EDIT: removed the attached pic see below
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Last edited by Gigitt; 02-27-2017 at 10:27 PM. Reason: remove attachment pic
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by twowheeladdict View Post
Threads like this make me glad I keep my bikes their stock configuration. If it ain't broke...

So many variables on the bike in this thread. Mind boggling.
When I had my Uly, I had the Drummer Exhaust on it and had to mod my ECM using ECM spy and my laptop hooked to the bike..There is Soo much you can royally screw up, but when you get it right it is awesome..But I look at the Versys and think much like you do..
It's Quiet, reliable, and comfy I'll leave it alone.. it's just not in any big hurry..
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 10:29 PM
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sorry about pic... stupid attach file reduces the pics to a thumbnail... only to display a thumbnail!

here is my AFR table

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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 10:40 PM
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Soooo.. now we have established that ZERO PCV+AT200 you run better.

because it runs better with PCV off... then the problem is before the O2 sensor = headers.

I would seriously look at the header pipes. pull them off, test, put back on with new gaskets and studs/nuts. OR just upgrade to an arrows header

ANY air entering the pipes will cause issues like popping.

Once you turn on the PCV+AT200 with real tables... it is overfighting the fueling as it is sensing the extra oxygen in the header and adjusting the fuel... basically a really bad close loop situation. PCV and AT will be fighting all the time throwing the trim all over the place. and because air entering is not constant, the results are mixed and confusing.
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