Chain Slap? or something else? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 01:53 AM Thread Starter
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Chain Slap? or something else?

New problem.


Bike on 1st gear, on the center stand - no weight.

I get a bit of "chain slap"? when accelerating off from stand still. Typically in the 1st or 2nd gear at low speeds. Disappears when I go faster. Its a kat kat kat sound.

Problem surfaced right after I did a chain clean and lube.

Checked slack on the chain, some parts of the chain seem to be okay, and some parts a tad more loose.


Also looked into the chain tension on the rear sprocket on one part of the chain - it seems okay. Rear sprocket doesnt look too bad either. I will do the whole chain in a bit this afternoon.


Some links on the chain seem to be a bit kinked. Please see picture.

However, my problem also felt eerily similar to what this guy faced on his bike: Can't fix this chain rattle/slapping.. help! - Yamaha R1 Forum: YZF-R1 Forums

Last oil change was at 7.5k miles and I am at 13k miles now with a scheduled oil change at 15k miles. I sure hope its not some gear drive in the box.

Just a bit of background on the chain. I headed out to the coast a month back, and it rained. Next morning the chain was rusted out. So I got some WD 40 and got it all over the chain and scrubbed a bit of the rust off. But I reckon the job wasn't perfect. Could links have bound because of this?

I have been suggested to get the chain off, and soak in diesel or kerosene (which one is better?) and un kink the chain links. Then switch both front and rear sprockets upside down and put the chain back.

What are your suggestions?
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Last edited by red liner; 02-22-2017 at 02:24 AM.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 07:31 AM
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Clean Chain/ Lube /Align

First thing I see is chain misalignment, what are you using for lube? As to soaking chain, no, kerosene or diesel fuel yes. Take a pan and pour in a small amount, use a paint brush and work it into the links, do a foot at a time, washing both sides, the reason not to soak it, is the chain is sealed, eventually the kerosene will work it's way past the O rings, dissolve the grease, and your chain is shot then for sure. I use Dupont chain saver, or Dupont multi purpose lube, not starting another chain lube thread here. My opinion of turning the sprockets, not needed. I think if you clean the chain first , either you get the crap out and have all free links , or if you can't free all the links, you need a new chain. Then make sure it is aligned correctly, yours isn't.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 09:09 AM
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 01:00 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by onewizard View Post
First thing I see is chain misalignment, what are you using for lube? As to soaking chain, no, kerosene or diesel fuel yes. Take a pan and pour in a small amount, use a paint brush and work it into the links, do a foot at a time, washing both sides, the reason not to soak it, is the chain is sealed, eventually the kerosene will work it's way past the O rings, dissolve the grease, and your chain is shot then for sure. I use Dupont chain saver, or Dupont multi purpose lube, not starting another chain lube thread here. My opinion of turning the sprockets, not needed. I think if you clean the chain first , either you get the crap out and have all free links , or if you can't free all the links, you need a new chain. Then make sure it is aligned correctly, yours isn't.
I am going to try this tomorrow. I know virgin coconut oil does a fantastic job of cleaning rust out and freeing stuff, if applied well and allowed to rest a whole day/night.

I use dry chain wax from Tirbocor - a local brand.

I'll head to the dealer, and have them clean up the chain thoroughly, and loosen up the links if possible. Then tighten the chain and re-align it. Then ride home, and add the coconut oil to get rid of or loosen the rust. Then maybe another clean up and lube.

I'll have to buy the chain alignment tool, as well as a torque wrench so I can start doing these things myself.

Just got off the phone with the guys at the dealership here - and they dont have a chain alignment tool - they just use the markings on either side of the swing arm (which seem correct - but we all know they can be way off). Now what? Use the string method? Anything easier?

Further, how do you think my rear sprockets look at the moment? Are they okay?

Last edited by red liner; 02-23-2017 at 02:39 AM.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 08:07 AM
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Rear sprocket is worn out too... Don't waste time or money on your junked chain. It's stretched/worn unevenly, causing the slapping in the first place. Just get a new x-ring chain, and new sprockets including oem damped front sprocket.

Lay a straight edge on your rear sprocket under top row of your chain and see how it lines up at the chain outer plates toward front sprocket, with chain guard removed, and adjust rear axle to align properly.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 08:19 AM
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I agree with Invader, I had seized links and a 16 tooth front sprocket, the links chewed through the "Chase" that surrounds the front sprocket... So I'd go buy new sprockets & chain, and if you want to change ratios, I'd go smaller on the rear as opposed to larger on the front.

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 11:01 PM
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Chain slack should be between 2.5 to 3.5cm. Any less can contribute to excessive drive sprocket bearing and gear wear and any more will cause chain slap.

You can check for a bad chain by putting bike on rear stand and transmission in neutral and remove front sprocket cover. Slowly rotate rear wheel by hand feeling for changes in resistance. These changes in resistance will correspond to stiff links hitting front sprocket. Damaged or missing O rings mean a bad chain but are hard to detect as mostly occur on inside of chain which gets less care. Grit and dirt on chain destroys it.

If cared for a chain should normally last 20000km at a minimum.

See service manual, which you can download from this site, for how to do chain maintenance procedures. Adjust chain slack on left side of wheel and alignment on right, recheck and repeat if necessary, as alignment adjustment can effect chain slack.

Hope this helps.


Note: Chain slack is most often measured differently than in this diagram above. One reason for this is if you measure from the at rest position to the pulled down under tension position you will not get an accurate measurement. It is most often measured measured from fully lifted position, mid span, to fully lowered position. See below. When using chain slack specs check a manual to see how they measure it for any given value. I try to set mine at 3cm using the below method of measurement on my Versys.



From the Versys service manual: Rotate the rear wheel to find the position where the chain is tightest (think they meant to say loosest or mid span), and measure the maximum chain slack by pulling up and pushing down the chain midway between the engine sprocket and rear wheel sprocket.
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Last edited by twowheels; 02-24-2017 at 12:57 AM.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 04:01 AM Thread Starter
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Rear sprocket is worn out too... Don't waste time or money on your junked chain. It's stretched/worn unevenly, causing the slapping in the first place. Just get a new x-ring chain, and new sprockets including oem damped front sprocket.

Lay a straight edge on your rear sprocket under top row of your chain and see how it lines up at the chain outer plates toward front sprocket, with chain guard removed, and adjust rear axle to align properly.
How long do you reckon I can run with this chain? How many more kms? Chain sproket kits OEM O ring costs close to 200 USD here, so I have to wait and import an X ring which costs half.

Would my bike self destruct if I continue using this chain for say another 1000 kms? What do I need to keep in mind if I do this?

Lastly, what is an OEM "damped" front sprocket?

This is the kit I plan to buy and have it shipped to India: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaylin View Post
I agree with Invader, I had seized links and a 16 tooth front sprocket, the links chewed through the "Chase" that surrounds the front sprocket... So I'd go buy new sprockets & chain, and if you want to change ratios, I'd go smaller on the rear as opposed to larger on the front.
Why change ratios? Whats the issue with the stock ratios?

Quote:
Originally Posted by twowheels View Post

If cared for a chain should normally last 20000km at a minimum.
Yeah, I'm at close to 21000 kms. But I expected the chain to go up to 30,000 kms.

What do folks here think about a scottoiler? I'm now seriously contemplating installing one. When you add the costs in time of cleaning and lubing the chain every 500k (in Indian dusty and messy conditions), I think the oiler pays for itself.

Does the scottoiler really improve chain life by up to 40-50,000 kms? That would be amazing.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 06:57 AM
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The main problem is that you're in India... 21,000 kms is more than you should've gone with your original chain already in such conditions. You need to replace your worn out chain and sprockets ASAP!

Your original Kawasaki front sprocket has a rubber damper on it. It's quieter and easier on the chain.

Why would you order from Amazon in India? Shipping is very expensive to India... Why not order from ebay UK instead?!

Chain set Kawasaki KLE 650 Versys 07-15, chain RK GB 520 GXW 114, open, GOLD | eBay

kaw KLE650 B7F-B9F-DBF Versys ABS DID Z-VMX Gold X-Ring Chain & JT Sprockets

kaw KLE650 Versys Tourer DID 520 Z-VMX Silver X-Ring Chain & JT Sprockets 15/46 | eBay

DID ZVM-X Chain set Kawasaki HE-6, ER6, HE-6F/N EX650A, Chain kit, 15-46-114

Last edited by invader; 03-01-2017 at 12:52 AM.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red liner View Post
...Some links on the chain seem to be a bit kinked...I have been suggested to get the chain off, and soak in diesel or kerosene (which one is better?) and un kink the chain links. Then switch both front and rear sprockets upside down and put the chain back....
Once a chain link gets "kinked" it's pretty much DEAD. Get a new one.

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Originally Posted by red liner View Post
...I'll head to the dealer, and have them clean up the chain thoroughly, and loosen up the links if possible....
Sounds like a waste of $ to me....

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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 07:08 PM
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I would suggest using a dry, non tacky lube instead of oil or grease based product as it will not attract grit to the chain. IE Maxim Chain Wax, Dupont Chain Saver, etc..
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 06:22 AM Thread Starter
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The main problem is that you're in India... 21,000 kms is more than you should've gone with your original chain already in such conditions. You need to replace your worn out chain and sprockets ASAP!

Your original Kawasaki front sprocket has a rubber damper on it. It's quieter and easier on the chain.

Why would you order from Amazon Canada in India? Shipping is free in Canada only. Very expensive to India... Why not order from ebay UK instead?!

Chain set Kawasaki KLE 650 Versys 07-15, chain RK GB 520 GXW 114, open, GOLD | eBay

kaw KLE650 B7F-B9F-DBF Versys ABS DID Z-VMX Gold X-Ring Chain & JT Sprockets

kaw KLE650 Versys Tourer DID 520 Z-VMX Silver X-Ring Chain & JT Sprockets 15/46 | eBay

DID ZVM-X Chain set Kawasaki HE-6, ER6, HE-6F/N EX650A, Chain kit, 15-46-114
Okay, so a lot of the links you just posted above are for DID Professional. Someone here did some brand research and found that DID does NOT make anything in the professional series. Apparently, this particular "professional" version is chinese and a rip off on the original. The DID Racing series is original stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fasteddiecopeman View Post
Once a chain link gets "kinked" it's pretty much DEAD. Get a new one.



Sounds like a waste of $ to me....
Well, cleaning completely, and relubing seems to have sorted the chain out just a tiny bit. Right now, its just being used for a 50km commute every day or thereabouts.

Quote:
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I would suggest using a dry, non tacky lube instead of oil or grease based product as it will not attract grit to the chain. IE Maxim Chain Wax, Dupont Chain Saver, etc..
Yes, I use a dry wax based lube.

For now, I've decided to go with an automated chain oiler (been reading good stuff about Cameleon over on webbikeworld and at amazon). Seems like the bees knees to me. With the kind of rubbish thrown at you on Indian roads, I figured a constantly wet chain works best. Hoping to get about 2 more years of service with the kit. I never ever offroad, and this will be a pure tarmac motorcycle.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 07:13 AM
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I've never used an automated chain oiler but read a lot about them. People seem to either love or hate them. It seems a problem with many auto oilers is putting too much oil on which then flings off on rear tire making it slippery and perhaps dangerous. Another is they need to equally lubricate both sides of the chain to be effective. A single nozzle approach used on the cheap auto oilers does not seem to work. The more complex and computerized models seem to have a better handle on varying the oil flow based on speed as do those that have two nozzles to put oil on both sides of the chain. Otherwise they need to over lubricate the chain which has a downside. Another issue is that they require their own unique and sometimes expensive oil type to work optimally. When you start to use things like motor oil they fail or fling excess oil everywhere. Finally an auto oiler does not eliminate the need to clean the chain, although many claim they do in their advertising. My feeling is with the increased crap they put on the rear tire and the need to clean the chain and rear wheel, the labour saved is not that significant. I use a cheap chain brush to clean my chain when with kerosene/diesel, just before I wash my bike and lube it every second fill up with a Grease Ninja and it seems to last ~25,000 - 30,000km.

Based on what I've read, if I was going to consider an auto oiler I would look at one of the more sophisticated and expensive ones like the computerized Scott oiler system and then use their oil. The cheaper vacuum operated systems seem to have a lot of detractors. Lots of first hand experience/accounts on advrider.com. I would also be hesitant to believe claims they can make a chain last forever as a chain will only last as long as the rubber O rings can keep the sealed grease sealed, and it is primarily dirt, grit and drying out that cause these to fail. Chain lube is what prevents these from drying out. The purpose of lubricating in chain in essence is to lubricate the rubber 0 rings, to make them last longer, and also keep the chain from rusting. It is the sealed grease, under the O rings, that actually lubricates the chain pins the chain links pivot on.
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Last edited by twowheels; 02-27-2017 at 07:41 AM.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 07:13 AM
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New problem.[/url]

What are your suggestions?
Put a new chain on it. Look at 0:28 into your video. See the kink in the links? They don't do that when they still have internal lubrication.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 08:50 AM
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Okay, so a lot of the links you just posted above are for DID Professional. Someone here did some brand research and found that DID does NOT make anything in the professional series. Apparently, this particular "professional" version is chinese and a rip off on the original. The DID Racing series is original stuff.
You don't know what you're talking about... It was actually me who mentioned problems with DID's new VX2 chain which replaced the Japan made VM520 X-ring chain as I still use.

As you can see, DID ZVM-X is in fact part of their Professional series, and it is an excellent quality chain.

D.I.D Racing Chains and Dirt Star? Rims

I'm trying to prevent you from getting a crappy chain like you have in your damn Amazon link.
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Last edited by invader; 02-27-2017 at 09:40 AM.
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-27-2017, 11:30 PM Thread Starter
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I've never used an automated chain oiler but read a lot about them.
Here's a review of the cameleon plus chain oiler which I read over on webbikeworld, and which I felt was quite interesting: Cameleon Plus Chain Oiler Review - webBikeWorld

Quote:
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Put a new chain on it. Look at 0:28 into your video. See the kink in the links? They don't do that when they still have internal lubrication.
Agreed, chain replacement on the way.

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I'm trying to prevent you from getting a crappy chain like you have in your damn Amazon link.
You're right Invader. But just a day late now. Already ordered the chain off Amazon and it's been shipped. Here's hoping I get a made in Japan kit (did some searching around and looks like there's a made in thailand which isnt too great and a made in Japan which gives great service). Ebay wouldn't let me use my Indian credit card even via paypal. And no tracking information for shipments. At this point I couldn't risk sitting around for more than a month waiting for a chain replacement. I guess if I had investigated the chain going bad much earlier and made a note of the symptoms, I could have taken a bet with Ebay and held on.

I should have run a better search on this forum. Did that last night and looks like the EK series are the way to go. Or the DID ZVMX which will be my next change.

India is certainly NOT ready for bigger capacity motorcycles. This bike is costing me a bomb on maintenance. The positive thing is I do have some time to actually use the motorbike and explore places.
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