SYNTHETIC car oil (Mobil 1) - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-17-2008, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
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Question SYNTHETIC car oil (Mobil 1)

Listers,
I have used Mobil 1 car oil for years in my Bandit 1200, Yamaha SR500 and KLR650 with great results. In fact, much better shifting in the Bandit (10w-30). Any one tried M1 in their Versys?
Ed
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-17-2008, 04:58 PM
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No, but I'm going to. Only have 500 miles on it so far. I don't think you can go wrong with Mobil 1.

'09 Versys -Green

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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-17-2008, 05:09 PM
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If you insist on Mobil 1, use their motorcycle specific 10W40. It's JASO MA certified as recommended, and wet clutch compatible.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...4T_10W-40.aspx

Last edited by invader; 08-17-2008 at 05:33 PM.
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-17-2008, 07:36 PM
 
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I will be using M1 Supersyn (car oil) as soon as it's sufficiently broken in. That's my choice for all my bikes.
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-17-2008, 09:15 PM
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I've been running Mobil 1 15x-50 for 1700 miles now, no problems.
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-17-2008, 11:08 PM
 
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So,..motorcycle specific oil is just hype?
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 12:34 AM
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No. There is a definite difference. JASO (Japanese Automotive Standards Organization) developed its own set of tests specifically for motorcycles, resulting in oil formulas with additive packages designed for motorcycle engines which share its oil with the clutch and transmission.
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/index.html
Kawasaki does specify using JASO MA (high friction applications) in the Versys.
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 02:00 AM
 
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Shell Rotella 5W-40 is another good synthetic. It's about $16 a gallon at Wal Mart.
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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 10:24 AM
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.My 2 cents is run what you belive is better ,oil is like religion,everyone is right and knows better,second don't take all the hype and internet bs as truth

AMA EAA STN

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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 03:51 PM
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According to Richard Moore, Staff Engineer at Shell Global Solutions (US) Inc., Westhollow Technology Center, Houston, TX (800-231-6950):

"We recently ran the JASO MA friction test on Rotella T with Triple Protection 15W-40, Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 (CI-4) and our soon to be introduced (within the next 2 months) Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4. All three oils passed the wet clutch friction test. Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 (CI-4) has more than 1.2% ash (JASO MA spec limit) so it can not be classified as JASO MA. However, Rotella T with Triple Protection 15W-40 and our soon to be introduced Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4 do meet JASO MA."
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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 07:31 PM
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Just make sure it does NOT say ENERGY CONSERVING on the label on the back of the bottle. The bottom half of the circle should be blank.

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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 07:35 PM
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Oil of grades higher than SAE 30 are not energy conserving rated, but may still contain friction modifiers. Just stick to JASO MA certified oil, as specified.

Read this: http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/index.html

Last edited by invader; 08-18-2008 at 08:02 PM.
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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 11:19 PM
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I have used Castrol 10-40 for years in everything,cars trucks,lawn mowers,and all types of motorcycles, from dirt bikes to Sport bikes.I have never had any problems and will continue to use it.Sport Rider magazine did an article a few years ago about a CBR900r with 120,000 miles and the oil used was castrol 10-30. It had lost around 8HP through the years.
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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
There is a definite difference. JASO (Japanese Automotive Standards Organization) developed its own set of tests specifically for motorcycles, resulting in oil formulas with additive packages designed for motorcycle engines which share its oil with the clutch and transmission.
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/index.html
Maybe. They might be better for your bike, but so far, I haven't seen any conclusive test that actually shows there is a difference. That Sport Rider article certainly isn't it. I read it several times, looked at their data and the best conclusion I can make is that they wanted to make a point and used the data that was convenient to show it and ignored the rest.

A few examples:
Quote:
The motorcycle OEMs felt that lower levels of phosphorous and the introduction of more friction modifiers (aimed at higher fuel economy in cars) was not in the best interest of motorcycle engines. Since phosphorous is an important antiwear component, lower levels could reduce the ability of oil to protect transmission gears, since motorcycles share engine oil with the gearbox.
If you look at their data:


There is a difference of about 200 ppm for phosphorous and maybe 50 for zinc (the two anti wear additives of choice). Is that significnat? I don't know, but it doesn't seem to support this theory that there is a huge difference between auto and moto oils in wear protection due to not being JASO MA compliant. Look at the moly content. Higher on some bike specific oils than on the auto ones.

Quote:
Don't substitute a higher API designation oil like SL, because it will contain less of some additives like phosphorus, and it may contain other additives that will yield higher fuel economy in a car but could cause slippage in your clutch.
Mobil 1 is SM/SL rated. It scores highest on viscosity retention, has a very high base number and a very good additive package (acid neutralizers, anti-wear). The phosphorous content is average, but it's supplemented by a large amount of zinc. The only potential drawback is the moly content. Does that last detail make it unsuitable for use on a motorcycle? Mobil 1 is the oil of choice for many people and I don't remember hearing complaints about slipping clutches.

Quote:
Four-Ball Wear Test
With an eye toward evaluating oil's ability to lubricate under extreme pressure conditions, we picked a few candidates and ran them through the "Four-Ball Wear Test" (officially designated ASTM D-4172).

This test is used to determine the wear properties of engine oil in sliding contact (such as a piston sliding against a cylinder wall).

The smaller the wear scar, the better the protection.
And here are their results:


First, where did the Castrol GTX come from? They get to the most important test they are doing (everything else is a simple lab analysis of the oil) and they introduce an oil that wasn't evaluated at all previously?

Now this is the interesting part, this test is very simple, the smaller the scar the better the protection, right? When the GTX score better than the other two, it's inconclusive, but a few ppm of one additive or another make for a "significant" difference? Give me a break.

Quote:
Tapered Roller Shear Test
We decided to conduct some additional testing aimed at evaluating an oil's ability to withstand the shearing loads present in a motorcycle gearbox (but not in the typical automotive engine). One of the claims made by most motorcycle-specific oil producers is that motorcycles present a different set of conditions than typical cars do, and that therefore you should spend more money to get oil formulated specifically for this environment. The meshing of transmission gears is said to shear or tear oil polymers over time, resulting in the degradation of oil viscosity and severely reducing its performance. As we stated earlier, this may not be so critical if you frequently change your oil. However, if you run longer than standard intervals, this oil property is something to strongly consider.
Alright, now we are getting somewhere. I agree, this is an important test. So what do they choose to compare, a standard auto mineral oil to 3 synthetics...



The curious part is that Motul 300V 5W-40 doesn't perform any better than Valvoline 10W-40, even though it's one of those Group V oils - "Motul 300V, however, uses 100 percent ester as its base oil, and is one of the more expensive oils." If they had thought this through, they would have at least compared Mobil 1 to MXT and maybe some of the Castrol products, to see if there was a real difference between automotive and motorcycle oils. Another missed opportunity or maybe they worried that the results wouldn't support their argument?

Quote:
We did, however, unequivocally answer a few questions. For one, most name-brand motorcycle-specific oils are indeed different than common automotive oils, even within the same brand, debunking a common myth.
Yes, some products are different. What they didn't manage to answer was whether this made a real difference when used in a motorcycle engine...

Back to square one.


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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 01:15 AM
 
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The extra additives will certainly not hurt, and there is a good chance they might help. I'll pay the few extra bucks.
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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 03:48 AM
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Interesting, Gustavo...
"Some motorcycle oils have a much higher phosphorus and zinc level than others, taking the average up close to automotive oil levels. Only six of the 19 motorcycle oils tested use moly at all. Those that do, however, average 298 ppm."
-They don't claim that a few ppm makes a 'significant' difference: "Many of the products contain less than five ppm of moly, which is the threshold measurement on this test (meaning any amount less than five ppm will not be detected). Both Torco oils contain a significant dose of moly, while the Maxum Ultra and Motul 300V Factory contain far less. The Mobil 1 automotive oil contains 92 ppm, while the MX4T motorcycle-specific version has an undetectable amount. Only six of the 19 motorcycle oils we tested use moly at all. Those that do, however, average 298 ppm. Considering that many oils contain five ppm or less, 298 ppm is a significant dose."
"While the four-ball wear test shows that particular automobile and motorcycle-specific oils perform identically, the heat and viscosity shear tests show otherwise."
They could've had a better selection of tested oils, but they do show that most name-brand motorcycle-specific oils are different than common automotive oils, even within the same brand. "Mobil One automotive oil is definitely different than its motorcycle-specific version. The same is true for the three oils provided by Castrol, showing that both companies have different goals when formulating their automotive and motorcycle products."
They do admit that: "Whether they perform better-despite the data we've gathered-is still a matter of opinion."

According to Castrol; "Note: The low friction characteristics of Castrol Edge 0W-40 make it unsuitable for most motorcycles that incorporate wet clutches in combined engine and transmission systems. Castrolís prime recommendation for this application is Castrol R4 Superbike."
As it's of a grade higher than SAE 30, Castrol's Edge is still not 'Energy Conserving' rated in the 0W-40 weight.
http://www.castroledge.com.au/PDF/va..._edge_0w40.pdf

At any rate, I like using Amsoil's POA group IV synthetic Formula 4-Stroke PowerSports 0W-40 Synthetic (JASO MA) in the V as I did for a long time in a WR426F, and their ASL 5W30 in the car... I get any Amsoil product from http://www.woodsbrosracing.com/amsoil-online-store.htm at 20% off, and end up paying 35% less in Canada.

Last edited by invader; 08-19-2008 at 02:56 PM.
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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 05:24 AM
 
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...I get any Amsoil product...at 20% off, and end up paying 35% less in Canada.
I get it for dealer cost. (Guess it helps that I'm a dealer.) I'm still going to run the Rotella in mine due to the cost and convenience. The AMSOIL is a better oil, but as often as I'll be changing it, that won't be much of a factor IMHO.
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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
If you insist on Mobil 1, use their motorcycle specific 10W40. It's JASO MA certified as recommended, and wet clutch compatible.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...4T_10W-40.aspx
I understand your concern, however, Mobil 1 car oil has worked just fine in my Bandit (OVER 100 HP and NO clutch problems) over LOTS of miles.
Ed
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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 01:05 AM
 
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I've got over 6k on my V and the Mobil 1 works great, shifts fine.
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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by mk940 View Post
I've got over 6k on my V and the Mobil 1 works great, shifts fine.

+1 for the Mobil 1 also with 6k miles and runs like a top. I have used Mobil 1 Car oil in several of my bikes including the KTM 450EXC and never any problems.

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