Dropped bike - took to dealer - won't start now. - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-28-2016, 06:57 AM Thread Starter
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Dropped bike - took to dealer - won't start now.

Hey guys,

I recently dropped my 2008 Versys (4th of July). Only a minor one with a sore leg and a bike that had some cosmetic damage which I rode home. Later that afternoon I rode it to one of the local Kawasaki dealerships and left it with them, as I was going away for a couple weeks. I got an email a few days later basically saying everything was okay, it was only the right foot peg and foot peg bracket that needed to be replaced, so I gave them the go ahead.

Fast forward to this Tuesday just passed and I rock up to collect my bike, only to be told that the battery is flat and it won't start. This raised my first concern - A flat battery after three weeks? My Ducati's been sitting for almost a year now and it still starts just fine. So they tell me to sit tight while they charge it. About 10-20 minutes later one of the technicians pops out and asks me how long ago I put the fuel in (about a week before my crash) as it had apparently gone bad, also he doesn't reckon the bike's sparking and will need new plugs. Now I was even more annoyed - I rode the bloody thing in, it was starting just fine after the crash. But I was eager to get it home and not pay someone to do a job I can do, so I grab some new plugs, organise a trailer and take the bike home.

Now we get to today. I'm pulling the bike apart to replace the plugs and notice there's some moisture on the battery... The battery had a 7cm crack on the side of it - I wonder why it wouldn't charge. So I pull everything that needs to be pulled, replace the plugs, replace the battery (used the one out of my Ducati), put everything back together and start her up. Nope. When I press the ignition button, the starter motor goes, the FI light comes on solid and she won't go. So I double checked all the things I unplugged, to no avail.

My questions, at this point, are;
Is there some simple thing I might be overlooking to get this bike starting?
Is there something I could have done to cause the bike to not start, despite replacing the advised bits?
Is it possible the dealership has done something wrong - other than overlooking the battery - given that it was starting just fine immediately after the crash?

2013 Ducati Monster 659

2008 Kawasaki Versys
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-28-2016, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyDucatiIsBroken View Post
Hey guys,

.

My questions, at this point, are;
Is there some simple thing I might be overlooking to get this bike starting?
Is there something I could have done to cause the bike to not start, despite replacing the advised bits?
Is it possible the dealership has done something wrong - other than overlooking the battery - given that it was starting just fine immediately after the crash?
Something Simple? Yes.. Bad Service.The rest i'm not so sure about. A fuse maybe?
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-28-2016, 09:09 AM
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lay down sensor?

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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-28-2016, 10:35 AM
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time to lawyer up, i had a shop **** one of my bikes up years ago and i regret not lawyer up. if it ran fin when you took it in then they had to have done something (possibly damage the ECU with there charger if they tried starting the bike with the charger hoked up (and could have hooked it up wrong)

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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-28-2016, 11:15 AM
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Bad Gas / Dealer Problem

I can say I have had the same problem with my Suzuki, after sitting all winter with stabilizer in it. Drained gas and put fresh in. One simple way to find out is get a sample and put it on concrete--light a match and toss the match at the gas, if it doesn't burn theirs your problem. Sounds crude and extreme, well I witnessed it at a bike dealership in the back around a whole pile of bikes , thought the guy was crazy--seeing is believing--gas didn't burn, used a propane torch to get rid of what was on the concrete floor, the only way it would burn, take the torch away and it went out.

I mention dealer problem, I can't see them creating it, as if they tried starting with the charger hooked up backwards, they would have blown the main fuse, as the regulator would have shorted out. Having said that, if your gas burns, you may have made a mistake taking it home. Hooking up the battery backwards would damage a whole host of things, start by checking the fuses .My money is on bad gas.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-28-2016, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by onewizard View Post
I can say I have had the same problem with my Suzuki, after sitting all winter with stabilizer in it. Drained gas and put fresh in. One simple way to find out is get a sample and put it on concrete--light a match and toss the match at the gas, if it doesn't burn theirs your problem. Sounds crude and extreme, well I witnessed it at a bike dealership in the back around a whole pile of bikes , thought the guy was crazy--seeing is believing--gas didn't burn, used a propane torch to get rid of what was on the concrete floor, the only way it would burn, take the torch away and it went out.

I mention dealer problem, I can't see them creating it, as if they tried starting with the charger hooked up backwards, they would have blown the main fuse, as the regulator would have shorted out. Having said that, if your gas burns, you may have made a mistake taking it home. Hooking up the battery backwards would damage a whole host of things, start by checking the fuses .My money is on bad gas.
I think he said he had put gas in it the week prior an it ran fine into the dealership. HArd to imagine the Gas going bad to the point of not starting in 3.5 weeks or so.
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-28-2016, 11:41 AM
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I would start with a serious talk with the Owner of the dealership before I jumped to something as extreme as lawyering up. But even before doing that, maybe check all of the safety switches, relays, fuses, hose connections etc. in hopes that it is just something minor that was jarred in the drop.

If you still can't find what's wrong, I would talk to the Owner of the dealership, not anyone below him. Basically let him know tactfully, you think they F-ed it up, and you aren't going away so he's going to have to deal with you one way or another. Give them a chance to make it right. Maybe they'll work with you.

I would also consider avoiding taking your bike to a dealership in the future at all costs. I'm appalled at at what qualifies as a mechanic at many dealerships. Motorcycle and Car dealerships alike. I know there are some good ones, but man it seems like they're the exception these days.

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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-28-2016, 12:19 PM
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How to read your FI Light

If your FI light is on, you can read fault codes stored in ECU to trouble shoot.

USER MODE
At KEY ON the ECU completes a self test and then checks sensors and actuators. During this
time the FI light will be lit. While the FI light is ON you will hear the fuel pump run and the
sub-throttle servos move. The tachometer needle swings full scale and back. At the end of
the testing (about 3 seconds), the oil pressure light will come on indicating a normal KEY ON,
ENGINE OFF event.
If the ECU detects any actuator feedback or sensor input OUT OF RANGE, the FI light will be
set ON. It should be noted that the FI light can be set to a false ON state by radio
interference, though in practice it would take a very strong local signal to do so. The ECU
continues to monitor all sensors as long as the key is ON. If any signal is detected as OUT OF
RANGE, the FI light is set ON. The FI light will remain lit as long as the defect is present.
One of two things will happen when the FI light is ON; either the ECU will go into LIMP mode
or the ECU will prevent fuel injection, ignition, and/or starter circuit operation until the fault is
cleared. The severity of the fault will determine which of the two will happen. For instance, if
the ECU cannot detect crank position, it will prevent engine operation altogether. On the
other hand, if the ECU cannot determine Intake Air Temperature, it will initiate LIMP mode
(Kawasaki calls it FAIL-SAFE mode), assume an IAT temperature of 40C (104F), and allow the
engine to operate at that parameter.
The FI light will go OFF after repair or if the sensor comes back into range for any reason. The
ECU will resume normal operation. However, the event is memorized.
The FI light will blink continuously to indicate the vehicle-down sensor is active. When
detected, the ECU will shut-off the fuel pump, fuel injectors, starter and ignition. The FI light
will remain flashing and the motorcycle will not start until the vehicle-down sensor goes
inactive and the ECU is reset by cycling the key OFF.
ON at KEY ON, then OFF
OFF = normal operation
ON = fault detected
BLINK = vehicle down

DIAGNOSTIC MODE 1
Under the seat, along the right sub-frame rail is an orange/black wire with a bullet connector.
This is the self-diagnosis terminal. In order to read out the CURRENT Service Codes, ground
that wire with the KEY ON. The FI light will begin to flash codes. There will be a 5 second
delay and then the codes begin. The first flash is always a LONG (1 sec) followed by either
LONG or SHORT (0.5 sec) flashes. LONG flashes indicate TENS and short flashes ONES. One
LONG followed by two SHORT = 12. Two LONG, one SHORT = 21. Three LONG, two short =
32, etc. There is an interval of 1.5 seconds between TENS and ONES. There is a 3 second
interval between codes.
A Shorting Wire
B - Orange/Black Wire with a Bullet Connector
C Battery Negative Terminal
NOTES

For multiple codes, the codes will readout from lowest numerical value to highest. A low
battery will cause the light to flash slowly or not at all.

DIAGNOSTIC MODE 2
To recover codes set in memory; KEY ON, touch the self-diagnosis terminal rapidly to ground
more than 5 times within 2 seconds. The lead must remain grounded (after 5 groundings) for
the remainder of the diagnostic session. The codes will readout exactly as in MODE 1.
CODE Malfunction
11_______ Main throttle sensor
12_______ Inlet air pressure sensor
13_______ Inlet air temperature sensor
14_______ Water temperature sensor
21_______ Crankshaft sensor
24 & 25___Speed sensor (24 then 25, repeatedly)
31_______Vehicle-down sensor
32_______Subthrottle sensor
33_______Oxygen sensor inactive (Europe)
51_______Ignition Coil #1
52_______Ignition Coil #2
56_______Radiator Fan Relay
62_______Subthrottle valve actuator (sensor in range but not responding)
64_______Air switching valve
67_______Oxygen sensor heater (Europe)
94_______Oxygen sensor out-of-range
To clear codes from the ECU, enter MODE 2, pull the clutch in for more than 5 seconds.
Things the ECU cannot detect:
FI light
Fuel Pump
Fuel Pump Relay
DFI Main Relay
ECU Power and Ground
Fuel Injectors
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-28-2016, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMRA View Post
If your FI light is on, you can read fault codes stored in ECU to trouble shoot.

USER MODE
At KEY ON the ECU completes a self test and then checks sensors and actuators. During this
time the FI light will be lit. While the FI light is ON you will hear the fuel pump run and the
sub-throttle servos move. The tachometer needle swings full scale and back. At the end of
the testing (about 3 seconds), the oil pressure light will come on indicating a normal KEY ON,
ENGINE OFF event.
If the ECU detects any actuator feedback or sensor input OUT OF RANGE, the FI light will be
set ON. It should be noted that the FI light can be set to a false ON state by radio
interference, though in practice it would take a very strong local signal to do so. The ECU
continues to monitor all sensors as long as the key is ON. If any signal is detected as OUT OF
RANGE, the FI light is set ON. The FI light will remain lit as long as the defect is present.
One of two things will happen when the FI light is ON; either the ECU will go into LIMP mode
or the ECU will prevent fuel injection, ignition, and/or starter circuit operation until the fault is
cleared. The severity of the fault will determine which of the two will happen. For instance, if
the ECU cannot detect crank position, it will prevent engine operation altogether. On the
other hand, if the ECU cannot determine Intake Air Temperature, it will initiate LIMP mode
(Kawasaki calls it FAIL-SAFE mode), assume an IAT temperature of 40C (104F), and allow the
engine to operate at that parameter.
The FI light will go OFF after repair or if the sensor comes back into range for any reason. The
ECU will resume normal operation. However, the event is memorized.
The FI light will blink continuously to indicate the vehicle-down sensor is active. When
detected, the ECU will shut-off the fuel pump, fuel injectors, starter and ignition. The FI light
will remain flashing and the motorcycle will not start until the vehicle-down sensor goes
inactive and the ECU is reset by cycling the key OFF.
ON at KEY ON, then OFF
OFF = normal operation
ON = fault detected
BLINK = vehicle down

DIAGNOSTIC MODE 1
Under the seat, along the right sub-frame rail is an orange/black wire with a bullet connector.
This is the self-diagnosis terminal. In order to read out the CURRENT Service Codes, ground
that wire with the KEY ON. The FI light will begin to flash codes. There will be a 5 second
delay and then the codes begin. The first flash is always a LONG (1 sec) followed by either
LONG or SHORT (0.5 sec) flashes. LONG flashes indicate TENS and short flashes ONES. One
LONG followed by two SHORT = 12. Two LONG, one SHORT = 21. Three LONG, two short =
32, etc. There is an interval of 1.5 seconds between TENS and ONES. There is a 3 second
interval between codes.
A Shorting Wire
B - Orange/Black Wire with a Bullet Connector
C Battery Negative Terminal
NOTES

For multiple codes, the codes will readout from lowest numerical value to highest. A low
battery will cause the light to flash slowly or not at all.

DIAGNOSTIC MODE 2
To recover codes set in memory; KEY ON, touch the self-diagnosis terminal rapidly to ground
more than 5 times within 2 seconds. The lead must remain grounded (after 5 groundings) for
the remainder of the diagnostic session. The codes will readout exactly as in MODE 1.
CODE Malfunction
11_______ Main throttle sensor
12_______ Inlet air pressure sensor
13_______ Inlet air temperature sensor
14_______ Water temperature sensor
21_______ Crankshaft sensor
24 & 25___Speed sensor (24 then 25, repeatedly)
31_______Vehicle-down sensor
32_______Subthrottle sensor
33_______Oxygen sensor inactive (Europe)
51_______Ignition Coil #1
52_______Ignition Coil #2
56_______Radiator Fan Relay
62_______Subthrottle valve actuator (sensor in range but not responding)
64_______Air switching valve
67_______Oxygen sensor heater (Europe)
94_______Oxygen sensor out-of-range
To clear codes from the ECU, enter MODE 2, pull the clutch in for more than 5 seconds.
Things the ECU cannot detect:
FI light
Fuel Pump
Fuel Pump Relay
DFI Main Relay
ECU Power and Ground
Fuel Injectors

Good Info. I vote for this info to be a sticky somewhere if it isn't already :-)

'09 Versys
'01 ZR7S
'79 Yamaha XS650
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-28-2016, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
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With regard to the error codes, then orange/black line is missing on my bike. The previous owner did a lot of work on it.

The petrol was put in only four weeks ago, and I've never had trouble with petrol after several months let alone just one. That being said, I'll check it once it's properly light outside.

I did speak to someone yesterday - I just asked for the boss - that was after I pulled the old battery but before I put in the other one and tried to start the bike. He said he was going to talk to the girl who worked on my bike and get back to me, but never did. So I'm going to give them another call when they open in an hour.
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-28-2016, 06:52 PM
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 06:39 AM Thread Starter
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Update:

So I pulled everything apart and put it back together, still have the same issue of it not wanting to turn over, but FI light is no longer on. I managed to roll start it - which leads me to think the Ducati battery was just too weak - but it's running rich now. Going to try getting it started again and letting it run for a few minutes to see if it's just coughing up any excess fuel from previous attempts to start it.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 05:10 PM
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easy things first, check voltage at battery, then move on.


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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyDucatiIsBroken View Post
... the girl who worked on my bike...
There's your problem!
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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There's your problem!
Really, mate? What is this? The 1950s?

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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 10:12 PM
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The dealer let a girl work on your bike, now there's a 7 cm crack in the battery and it won't start... We'll see if she clears up or still appears to run rich. There must still be a way to read FI trouble codes on it.
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 10:22 PM Thread Starter
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The dealer let a girl work on your bike, now there's a 7 cm crack in the battery
The dealer LET a girl work on my bike. Wowsers, they LET her do her job. Who'd've thunk it?

I daresay the course of events more along the line of - I had a crash, the battery cracked, the two people who checked over my bike both missed it.

Now, if you've got anything to contribute beyond casual sexism, please carry on, otherwise, please refrain from replying to my post.

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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyDucatiIsBroken View Post
The dealer LET a girl work on my bike. Wowsers, they LET her do her job. Who'd've thunk it?

I daresay the course of events more along the line of - I had a crash, the battery cracked, the two people who checked over my bike both missed it.

Now, if you've got anything to contribute beyond casual sexism, please carry on, otherwise, please refrain from replying to my post.


Lighten up or did you lose your sense of humor when you dropped your bike....

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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-30-2016, 08:23 AM Thread Starter
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Lighten up or did you lose your sense of humor when you dropped your bike....
Sense of humour? You think some of the bull**** attitudes faced by women in the motorcycling community is a joke?

Mate, I have two nieces who, when they grow up, I'd like to introduce them to riding if they're interested, but not if people are going to say their problem is that they're women.

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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-30-2016, 11:42 AM
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OK, guys, turn it down. This is a motorcycle forum and sometimes it's better to just ignore off topic comments you disagree with.
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