Bolt materials? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-15-2016, 06:39 PM Thread Starter
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Bolt materials?

What materials are suitable for bolts on our bikes? Obviously one would want strength and corrosion resistance.

A2 Stainless? A4? High Tensile 12.9 Grade? Is 12.9 grade a European version of Class 10 in the USA or is it a kind of steel? Zinc plated? Non-plated? DIN912?

I've read that Class 10 may not be a real thing, yet I see all kinds of Class 10 bolts and nuts. Class 8 is apparently strong enough.

I'm installing crash bars and am not thrilled with the use of a threaded rod where there had been a hex cap screw for the lower engine mounting bolt. There are several choices of replacement hex cap screws. Which way to go?

The screws/bolts be replaced are all a bit longer than the factory hex cap screws and include the engine mounting bolts. Don't want to mess this up.

Looking for M10 threads, 300mm length.

https://www.grainger.com/product/GRA...AL01?$smthumb$

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...&condition=new

M10 A2 Stainless Part Threaded Bolt Screw Nyloc Nut Washers Hexagon Hex Head | eBay
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-15-2016, 07:33 PM
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Stainless bolts have the lowest strength but obviously have the best corrosion resistant. Hardened steel bolts have the greatest strength. I believe the bolts that come with the SW-Motech crash bars are self locking with a nylon liner. I would recommend using loctite on whatever bolts you choose.

If you live in a medium sized city or larger there are probably more than one commercial fastener store, hidden in an industrial park somewhere, that specializes in selling fasteners and bolts of all sizes and stocks every conceivable size bolt and fastener. Check your local yellow pages.

I brought bolts at the fastener store once to secure my handle bar switches, they cost next to nothing and looked identical to the OEM ones but rusted in a season. Conversely the dealer wanted $5 each for the OEM ones but they did not rust. Suspect just a difference in materials.

Last edited by twowheels; 05-15-2016 at 07:40 PM.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-15-2016, 08:08 PM
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We all have a past

Mine just happens to be at the track on 4 wheels. I forget sometimes that I might have something to contribute due to my unique and sketchy background. Anyway, a wise man once introduced me to Carroll Smith, the no BS engineer that grew up around race cars and watched them fail spectacularly.

I had a track instructor many years ago that wanted us students to show him our dog-eared copy of these books BEFORE he would inspect our track cars. Sadly, he never followed through on that threat. Not sure where he is now, but I owe that man a debt I can never repay.

This is the book that talks about fasteners and plumbing:
Carroll Smith's Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing Handbook.

Understand it and you'll know what's substandard, what's good and what's overkill.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 09:19 AM
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I'm contemplating the installation of sliders and have similar questions about long bolts to replace the M10 engine mounting bolts.

I still have a full deck.
I just shuffle slower.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 10:40 AM
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I try to always look to see what is going to fail down stream when I substitute bolts.
Sometimes a weaker bolt is used to protect the mounting point from breaking instead of the mounted object.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quexpress View Post
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I'm contemplating the installation of sliders and have similar questions about long bolts to replace the M10 engine mounting bolts.
I am using the Puig pro frame sliders. These come with longer engine mounting bolts. I painted the plastic inserts with the "Pro" logo flat black, and I think they blend nicely with the bike. I also considered the kawasaki frame sliders. These mount to the two smaller bolt holes and leave the original engine mounting bolts untouched. I went with the Puig because of better price, stronger mounting, and I think they would slide better in a crash. Beware of the stick type sliders, because they can get caught on something in a slide, flip the bike, and actually cause more damage.
Puig Pro Frame Sliders for Versys 650 15-16 - SoloMotoParts.com
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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Here's a good link another forum pointed me to. It has a nice chart showing the different materials and ratings plus their yield and tensile strengths.

http://home.jtan.com/%7Ejoe/KIAT/kiat_2.htm

I noted the hardware with this kit is rated 8.8 which is slightly weaker than US grade 5, which apparently is considered the minimum grade for automotive use where strength is a factor. Hmm. Kawi's factory OEM engine mounting hardware is not marked with any grade at all.

Some interesting info, too, on using anti-seize or Loc-Tite regarding how it affects torque values. And, a good warning about using NyLok nuts or Loc-Tite where there may be heat. Using a lock washer or all metal lock nut is needed in these locations.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly-Sig View Post
Some interesting info, too, on using anti-seize or Loc-Tite regarding how it affects torque values. And, a good warning about using NyLok nuts or Loc-Tite where there may be heat. Using a lock washer or all metal lock nut is needed in these locations.
Security Locknut - World's Most Effective Lock Nut
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 03:15 PM
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Puig pro frame sliders

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMRA View Post
I also considered the kawasaki frame sliders. These mount to the two smaller bolt holes and leave the original engine mounting bolts untouched.
The Kawasaki sliders are not an option for me because I'm using the Motowerk highway peg mounts which require the two smaller bolt holes.





Quote:
I am using the Puig pro frame sliders. These come with longer engine mounting bolts. I painted the plastic inserts with the "Pro" logo flat black, and I think they blend nicely with the bike.
Very nice. Do you have a few pics of these on your bike?

Note: I read the Puig installation instructions. These use on of the small bolt holes ... not good for me ...

Quote:
I went with the Puig because of better price, stronger mounting, and I think they would slide better in a crash. Beware of the stick type sliders, because they can get caught on something in a slide, flip the bike, and actually cause more damage.
I agree but it doesn't look like I have many other choices.

Thanks!

I still have a full deck.
I just shuffle slower.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 07:01 PM
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I think the Puig sliders will install very nicely with the highway pegs with minor alterations.
Right side: First mount the Motowerk right bracket clamp, and tighten the rear bolt. Remove the front bolt, and with any luck, the Puig spacer (right side part #10) will fit inside the bracket clamp. In this case you could just add a washer between the Puig plate (#7) and the bike, and then install the Puig sliders as per instructions. Worst case, you would have to cut slots in the Puig Spacer to fit the outer cut out of the bracket clamp. In this case you might as well grind down the spacer a bit and forgo the washer.
Left side: First install the Motorwerk left side bracket clamp and attach the rear spacer and bolt only, and leave the bracket hanging out of the way. Next install Puig left side plate (#8) and spacer (#11) and install a longer M8 bolt (purchase) and a shorter spacer to replace the motowerk front top post. Alternatively, you could cut down wotowerk top post to fit. Swing up the bracket clamp and bolt it all together and install the Puig slider puck.
Motowerk instructions
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/11...63682540939011
Puig instructions
http://www.puig.tv/descargas/PUIG20745.pdf
I will post some photos tomorrow of the sliders on my bike. I think they would look great with your pegs.
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMRA View Post
I think the Puig sliders will install very nicely with the highway pegs with minor alterations.
Right side: First mount the Motowerk right bracket clamp, and tighten the rear bolt. Remove the front bolt, and with any luck, the Puig spacer (right side part #10) will fit inside the bracket clamp. In this case you could just add a washer between the Puig plate (#7) and the bike, and then install the Puig sliders as per instructions. Worst case, you would have to cut slots in the Puig Spacer to fit the outer cut out of the bracket clamp. In this case you might as well grind down the spacer a bit and forgo the washer.
Left side: First install the Motorwerk left side bracket clamp and attach the rear spacer and bolt only, and leave the bracket hanging out of the way. Next install Puig left side plate (#8) and spacer (#11) and install a longer M8 bolt (purchase) and a shorter spacer to replace the motowerk front top post. Alternatively, you could cut down wotowerk top post to fit. Swing up the bracket clamp and bolt it all together and install the Puig slider puck.
Motowerk instructions
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/11...63682540939011
Puig instructions
http://www.puig.tv/descargas/PUIG20745.pdf
I will post some photos tomorrow of the sliders on my bike. I think they would look great with your pegs.
I was thinking approximately the same thing but was wondering how long are your middle spacers (especially part 6 on the left side). I must make sure that the nylon protector (part 4) would clear the footpeg clamp/arm assembly).

I'm looking forward to seeing your pics.

Thank you!

I still have a full deck.
I just shuffle slower.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-17-2016, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quexpress View Post
I was thinking approximately the same thing but was wondering how long are your middle spacers (especially part 6 on the left side). I must make sure that the nylon protector (part 4) would clear the footpeg clamp/arm assembly).

I'm looking forward to seeing your pics.

Thank you!
I'm not much of a photographer, but here are some pics.There is 3 1/4 inch clearance between the frame mount hole and the slider puck, shown in the first photo. I would think there is plenty of room. The left side sticks out further than the right, just like the pegs. It looks like the Puig Spacer on the right side is too fat to fit the Motowerk bracket. All this bolt really does is prevent the slider from spinning. Let me know if you would like any more measurements.
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-17-2016, 04:03 PM
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In an effort to keep this thread on topic, here is photo of OEM engine mounting bolts.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-17-2016, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMRA View Post
I'm not much of a photographer, but here are some pics.
They're exactly what the doctor prescribed!

Quote:
There is 3 1/4 inch clearance between the frame mount hole and the slider puck, shown in the first photo.

Let me know if you would like any more measurements.
Unless I'm wrong, the quoted measurements are for the left side. On the right side, could you please measure the distance between the frame mount and the slider puck?

Quote:
It looks like the Puig Spacer on the right side is too fat to fit the Motowerk bracket. All this bolt really does is prevent the slider from spinning.
If I go for it, a friendly machinist could fix that.

Thanks IAMRA! Much appreciated!

I still have a full deck.
I just shuffle slower.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-17-2016, 04:50 PM
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Thread hijacking

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMRA View Post
In an effort to keep this thread on topic, here is photo of OEM engine mounting bolts.
Great idea! I did not intend to hijack Fly-Sig's thread.

Sorry Fly-Sig!

I still have a full deck.
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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-17-2016, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quexpress View Post
Unless I'm wrong, the quoted measurements are for the left side. On the right side, could you please measure the distance between the frame mount and the slider puck?
Yes. 3 1/4 inch clearance on the left side, and 1 1/2 inch clearance on the right side between the frame bolt hole and the puck. If you are going to use a machinist, I definitely vote that you go for it. It will look great, and I don't think there is a better option.

Last edited by IAMRA; 05-17-2016 at 05:26 PM.
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-17-2016, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMRA View Post
Yes. 3 1/4 inch clearance on the left side, and 1 1/2 inch clearance on the right side between the frame bolt hole and the puck.
Cool!

Quote:
If you are going to use a machinist, I definitely vote that you go for it. It will look great, and I don't think there is a better option.
The jury is still out there for this item but it is very near the top of my list.

Thanks for your insight, pics, etc. It is much appreciated!

I still have a full deck.
I just shuffle slower.
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-24-2016, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK DOG View Post
I try to always look to see what is going to fail down stream when I substitute bolts.
Sometimes a weaker bolt is used to protect the mounting point from breaking instead of the mounted object.
I was something of a 'fasteners' expert working at an industrial-supply before joining the RCAF.

IF I remember correctly - grade 2 bolts would 'bend' while grade 8 would break in a sideways force, altho' the grade 2 would 'stretch' and the grade 8 ones would hold the torque in a straight pull....

Ed
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