Clutchless shifting - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-13-2016, 07:03 AM Thread Starter
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Clutchless shifting

It works great on my 2008 Versys 650! better then using the clutch, does this cause any damage? I have noticed that once moving in 1st it feels easy for the bike to shift (at very reasonable / low, old guy speed) up without using the clutch. Anyone else experience / do this? Any technical guys on here in the know on why this works & if it causes any damage? Sure feels and sounds quiet and smooth so I assume no..
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-13-2016, 09:01 AM
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Disclaimer: This is not advice or an implication how to ride, but rather it's feedback to your inquiry.

The key to clutch-less shifting is timing and technique. There's a sweet spot (timing) when throttle is lifted/reduced, and it unloads the transmission (much the same as when the clutch is engaged). Because the clutch isn't engaged, the window of optimum time to shift (without clutch) is narrow.

That's where technique comes in. A nice confident/well-executed shift must take place within milliseconds, when the tranny is unloaded-- no lazy footing! Failure to do so can damage tranny components, if transmission begins to load before the shift is fully executed. It's not the sort of thing that a lot of people are willing to try or continue, in order to preserve the integrity of their equipment.

When I learned the technique, I rode with people who race and that's a common thing (clutch-less shift) in racing. When I witnessed it performed smoothly, it helps understand the "how to". If you've ever missed a gear when shifting(with a clutch), you've heard what negative feedback the a tyranny can communicate. That scenario can also happen when shifting without clutch, as well.

So the answer is: yes, it can hurt the tranny if timing/technique are flawed. If shifting is done flawlessly (timing/technique), it's not likely to damage tranny.

I've rode many of wheelies throughout the years (going through the gear box from first - fourth gear, on back wheel)-- never used a clutch. But, my attention level, alertness, and concentration were magnified by about 100 times, when doing this-- no room for error...hence timing/technique. In closing, and reiterating my disclaimer, I don't recommend or encourage clutch-less shifting.


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Originally Posted by skywalker46 View Post
It works great on my 2008 Versys 650! better then using the clutch, does this cause any damage? I have noticed that once moving in 1st it feels easy for the bike to shift (at very reasonable / low, old guy speed) up without using the clutch. Anyone else experience / do this? Any technical guys on here in the know on why this works & if it causes any damage? Sure feels and sounds quiet and smooth so I assume no..
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-13-2016, 10:18 AM
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get an auto blipper

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Silvie=latin for. Of the forest /woods. Fox= Vulpine (also my middle name)

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-13-2016, 10:35 AM
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Short answer, not a problem, that's how I ride, both up and down, seamless
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-13-2016, 02:09 PM
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I shift UP from second w/out using the clutch, and DOWN (riding dirt) while standing on the 'pegs....


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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-13-2016, 03:50 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the replies, amazing wealth of knowledge on here.. im lookin at you bwwoodward! nice write up! much appreciated everyone. I feel it does no hard so I'll keep doing as Markie says. Thanks again!
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 04:54 AM
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Yup, for upshifting as bwwoodward described. I shift my track bike all the time like that, no issues. Always use the clutch for downshifting, though, is what I've been told, and what I do. I wring the crap out of my gixxer on the track and have been doing clutchless upshifts since new. Bike is an '07 with ~15k miles, and on the original clutch.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 06:07 AM
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i clutch to 2nd the clutchless up and down for almost every shift unless I'm skipping gears to do a pass or something or shifting while leaned over in a turn.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 08:15 AM
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I typically Use the clutch on My Versys. Always for Downshifting. It's kinda my lazy commuting, occasional ride into the mountains bike and as such I rarely wring it out enough that any benefit would come from not using the clutch, but I do do it occasionally. I Also Use the Clutch on My Eliminator 900. I never use the clutch on my Duke, except for starting and coming to a stop, but I ride it much more aggressively. On an Unrelated note, I have had several KTM 300's (including my current one) and my current 2001 KX 500, I have raced hare scramble for decades.. I never use the clutch until I hit technical or slick sections. I have never had any tranny issues at all.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 08:19 AM
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I also shift up from 2nd without the clutch quite frequently. I find that preloading the shift lever with very slight pressure makes things easier. It may take a few tries to find the "sweet spot" and may also vary according to the boots worn, but I think that it makes the shift smoother. The idea is to not slam the transmission into the next gear. More of a "snick" upwards.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronheater70 View Post
I typically Use the clutch on My Versys. Always for Downshifting. It's kinda my lazy commuting, occasional ride into the mountains bike and as such I rarely wring it out enough that any benefit would come from not using the clutch, but I do do it occasionally. I Also Use the Clutch on My Eliminator 900. I never use the clutch on my Duke, except for starting and coming to a stop, but I ride it much more aggressively. On an Unrelated note, I have had several KTM 300's (including my current one) and my current 2001 KX 500, I have raced hare scramble for decades.. I never use the clutch until I hit technical or slick sections. I have never had any tranny issues at all.
i do it while riding lazy commuter trips with one hand on the grip and one on my side up and down through the gears in traffic.

for lazy clutchless shifting its more smooth at lower rpm.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 10:58 PM
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Just preload the shifter, and when you want to change gear, quickly roll off throttle and your foot will just pop up into the next gear. No stress, no worries.

I have done it downshifting a lot on dirt, and occasionally on my street bikes. I use the same concept, different technique. I will roll on throttle and the very moment I want to downshift, I let go of throttle and give a quick step downward. It's a lot harder to get right, and not worth it... But upshifting is easy, and efficient.


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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 11:02 PM
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I prefer using the clutch... How about some shiftless clutching?
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-16-2016, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
I prefer using the clutch... How about some shiftless clutching?
thats how i wheelie

yes im a guy.
Silvie=latin for. Of the forest /woods. Fox= Vulpine (also my middle name)

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