Sprocket size quandary - Kawasaki Versys Forum
 2Likes
  • 1 Post By invader
  • 1 Post By Gigitt
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 02:09 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
AlaskaJeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Palmer, ALASKA
Posts: 1,269
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Garage
Sprocket size quandary

So I am going to change out the chain and sprockets out on my bike. I installed a Vortex 44 tooth aluminum rear sprocket pretty soon after purchase of the bike, and after about 9500 miles it's showing quite a bit of signs of wear. So off it comes. The 44/15 combo has worked well for me so I figured I would stay with it. WELL I heard about the Supersprox Stealth steel/aluminum sprocket and decided to give it a shot. Seems like the best of both worlds. The only problem is that they only come in 43 or 40 tooth sizes. So I ordered the 43 thinking it would be CLOSE to where I am now. But then I got to thinking; while I do enjoy the lower RPM on the highway my slow 1st gear off roading time might suffer with an even taller gear ratio. What IF I drop the front sprocket size down to a 14 tooth? What would the ratio of the 14/43 be compared to a 15/44? I know I saw a chart on here a couple years ago.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeff Reichel Palmer, ALASKA
1 Tim 6:11-12 "FIGHT the GOOD Fight"
There is no inappropriate temperature to ride a motorcycle…just inappropriate layers of protection.
2011 ADVersys
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

92 FATBOY (in rebuild status)
AlaskaJeff is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 05:23 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kitchener Ontario
Posts: 6,581
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Never a good idea to drop the teeth on the front, better to go 46 or 48 on rear, if you want more off road. I went the other way, 16/44, you get a 6% torque reduction and gain 6% surface area for the chain. I can start in second gear, with a passenger, but I definitely know I wasn't paying attention. Another thing, with 16 I am through a intersection and haven't shifted, in fact I can get to 100KM/Hr using two gears.
My plan is to test drive the 2015, but I am prepared to install the 16 on it.
onewizard is offline  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
AlaskaJeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Palmer, ALASKA
Posts: 1,269
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrocks View Post
for the variety of roads you're on up there, i would think the stock gearing would serve you best.
As you know there are quite a few (OK not really, only 3 main highways) in Alaska. No super slab interstates, but enough 65 MPH speed limit roads to travel. And getting to some of our favorite less traveled not so paved roads, requires enough pavement time to feel the need for taller gears to keep the RPMS down. If my calculations from other sources are correct the 14/43 combo will put me ratio wise somewhere in between the stock 15/46 and my current 15/44 set up. A little higher RPM at 65-70 and a little more useful 1st gear in the technical stuff.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeff Reichel Palmer, ALASKA
1 Tim 6:11-12 "FIGHT the GOOD Fight"
There is no inappropriate temperature to ride a motorcycle…just inappropriate layers of protection.
2011 ADVersys
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

92 FATBOY (in rebuild status)
AlaskaJeff is offline  
 
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 05:28 PM
Member
 
MaverickAus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
Posts: 2,039
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Garage
If you are happy with the current gearing I'd leave the front alone, 1 tooth on the back won't make much difference but 1 tooth on the front is like changing 3 teeth on the rear.
Gearing Commander: Motorcycle Speed, RPM, Chain & Sprockets Calculator
MaverickAus is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 05:33 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
AlaskaJeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Palmer, ALASKA
Posts: 1,269
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by onewizard View Post
Never a good idea to drop the teeth on the front
Please explain WHY it's never a good idea? I see people do it all the time. AND the reason for my question is to be able to use the new 43 tooth sprocket and maintain as close to my current ratio as possible.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeff Reichel Palmer, ALASKA
1 Tim 6:11-12 "FIGHT the GOOD Fight"
There is no inappropriate temperature to ride a motorcycle…just inappropriate layers of protection.
2011 ADVersys
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

92 FATBOY (in rebuild status)
AlaskaJeff is offline  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
AlaskaJeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Palmer, ALASKA
Posts: 1,269
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaverickAus View Post
If you are happy with the current gearing I'd leave the front alone, 1 tooth on the back won't make much difference but 1 tooth on the front is like changing 3 teeth on the rear.
Gearing Commander: Motorcycle Speed, RPM, Chain & Sprockets Calculator
I've looked at and attempted to use the Gearing Commander link. I guess I'm not smart enough..... I did plug in my bike and play around with it a bit. But didn't quite understand ALL the graphs and charts. Most of them I figured out, but it just seems like TMI for a common man like myself.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeff Reichel Palmer, ALASKA
1 Tim 6:11-12 "FIGHT the GOOD Fight"
There is no inappropriate temperature to ride a motorcycle…just inappropriate layers of protection.
2011 ADVersys
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

92 FATBOY (in rebuild status)
AlaskaJeff is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 08:11 PM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,826
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
15/46=0.3260869565217391
14/43=0.3255813953488372 (0.9984496124031007% of stock gearing)

It would work, but using a smaller countershaft sprocket is not ideal.
Lours_Polaire likes this.
invader is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 08:38 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kitchener Ontario
Posts: 6,581
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Torque and surface area

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaJeff View Post
Please explain WHY it's never a good idea? I see people do it all the time. AND the reason for my question is to be able to use the new 43 tooth sprocket and maintain as close to my current ratio as possible.
I guess none of us have done a very good job of explaining. I will try a different way. Imagine each roller on the chain as one of your fingers, this applies to the front ( counter shaft) and rear sprocket.
Now say you have the strength to pull a 100 LB load with your arm, imagine that if you used one finger, that would be 100 LB force on it, if you were able to use five fingers, that would be 20 LBS per. So your rear sprocket has alarger diameter so there is a mechanical advantage , plus it has 3 times the number of teeth, so using my finger formula , that 100 lb force on the rear would be over 15 teeth compared to five on the front, so rear would be 6.66 lbs per finger.

So enough about fingers, what happens is similar to what I am trying to convey , if you continued to use one finger, chances are excellent that damage or failure will occur to that finger.

There is a second factor, even though Invader compared the ratios, the smaller the counter shaft sprocket, the higher is the torque, there is a point were you can't go with less teeth because the shaft diameter governs the minimum diameter and thus the minimum number of teeth.

The 520 chain is designed to convey a certain amount of horse power. So to go to extremes, if you had a 30/ 92 which is exactly the same ratio as a 15 / 46, the chain on the 30/92 would be almost impossible to damage as to torque / stretching, compared to the 15 / 46.
onewizard is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-02-2016, 01:57 AM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 1,444
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Garage
Sports bikes like to drop a front tooth. It allows the accelerate faster in 1st gear. But me thinks that the gear box is taller in 1st gear on a sports bike as some of them like seems to ride longer in 1st before shifting when on stock front teeth. This might also be true that the gearing spread is taller so they have a higher top speed - it is a sports bike after all.
(example why we can put a stock 16T from a sports bike onto our versys - if they put a versys 15T on then it still will be ok for them)

On our Versys the 15T is ideal. If you do goto 14T you are putting more stress into the chain rollers/pins - as mentioned above. Also the side plates have to rotate more against the O/X rings, and theory is with more angular motion on the O/X rings you can increase O/X ring failures.

If you read the gearing calcuator FAQ they talk about tooth to link ratios, how often a tooth on a sprocket and a link in the chain meet. the smaller the number the faster you can have uneven wear as a tight link will attach that sprocket tooth more often with a small ratio. they colour code this ratio green when ratio is high - meaning that wear will be more even around the sprockets.
(I think I have the terms wrong but this is documented)
onewizard likes this.
Gigitt is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-02-2016, 12:12 PM
Super Moderator
 
fasteddiecopeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kelowna, BC - summer; Florence, AZ - winter
Posts: 17,279
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaJeff View Post
Please explain WHY it's never a good idea? I see people do it all the time. AND the reason for my question is to be able to use the new 43 tooth sprocket and maintain as close to my current ratio as possible.
Jeff - I'd put the 43 up for sale, then go back to stock 15/46 for the reasons jdrocks said. Out of roughly 110,000 miles on my three Vs, ALL w/ stock gearing, PROBABLY at least 10,000 have been on dirt of one sort or another.



I would NEVER go to higher gearing if there's dirt-riding in my future...!

Ed
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


'08 V AZ, '15 V650LT BC
Ride to D2D 2013, June '13

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Ride to D2D 2015, June '15

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Ride to D2D 2016, June '16

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fasteddiecopeman is offline  
post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-02-2016, 12:57 PM
Member
 
ronheater70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
I feel you, After riding big Vtwins, the Versys just sounds and feels like its screaming," Enough Already, as I cruise down the road at 75 MPH.. at least it used to.
I'm with JD and others on here, as I have no doubts in the machines ability to happily cruise a long at high rpms all day. For me, I had to train my ears more. I mean really that was it, once I got my ears used to hearing the higher rpms, It has become a non issue for me.
ronheater70 is offline  
post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-02-2016, 01:24 PM
Member
 
kohburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eastern, NC
Posts: 1,094
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
I went to the 44 rear to reduce the snatchy throttle. but once I set up my second rear wheel for off road trips vs regular commuting i'll put the stock 46 on that offroad wheel.
kohburn is offline  
post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-02-2016, 04:55 PM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,826
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaJeff View Post
I heard about the Supersprox Stealth steel/aluminum sprocket and decided to give it a shot. Seems like the best of both worlds. The only problem is that they only come in 43 or 40 tooth sizes. So I ordered the 43 thinking it would be CLOSE to where I am now.
This caught my attention from the start. Why did you think you couldn't get it in a larger size? Return yours if you can, and get a 44, 45, or preferably a 46 to go with your front 15.

Supersprox | - Kawasaki - Road Bikes - 650 ccm - 650 Versys USA [2007-2012]
invader is offline  
post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-02-2016, 05:48 PM
Member
 
BLACK DOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: frankfort, illinois
Posts: 1,437
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
This caught my attention from the start. Why did you think you couldn't get it in a larger size? Return yours if you can, and get a 44, 45, or preferably a 46 to go with your front 15.

Supersprox | - Kawasaki - Road Bikes - 650 ccm - 650 Versys USA [2007-2012]
scrolling down at the link I see a versys sprocket tool. Does any one know how it works?
BLACK DOG is offline  
post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-02-2016, 06:26 PM
Member
 
invader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kapuskasing Ontario Canada
Posts: 7,826
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK DOG View Post
scrolling down at the link I see a versys sprocket tool. Does any one know how it works?
It's a lock for preventing the countershaft from rotating when loosening or tightening the front sprocket nut.

http://sprocketstuff.com/Sprocket_St...cket_Tool.html
invader is offline  
post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-02-2016, 07:01 PM
Member
 
BLACK DOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: frankfort, illinois
Posts: 1,437
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Thanks
I wish I had seen it when I did my drive change, but now I have to have one.
Have a hard time with shiny things.
BLACK DOG is offline  
post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-03-2016, 07:33 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
AlaskaJeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Palmer, ALASKA
Posts: 1,269
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Garage
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
This caught my attention from the start. Why did you think you couldn't get it in a larger size? Return yours if you can, and get a 44, 45, or preferably a 46 to go with your front 15.

Supersprox | - Kawasaki - Road Bikes - 650 ccm - 650 Versys USA [2007-2012]
Well, I feel pretty stupid right about now I guess I needed to do a little more research before my purchase. I looked online and went thru a 3rd party vendor for the sprocket and for some reason the 40 & 43 were the only options most of them listed. Ah well, my fault. I WILL be returning the 43/14 sprockets and press on with a lesson learned.
Thanks everyone for steering me straight here.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeff Reichel Palmer, ALASKA
1 Tim 6:11-12 "FIGHT the GOOD Fight"
There is no inappropriate temperature to ride a motorcycle…just inappropriate layers of protection.
2011 ADVersys
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

92 FATBOY (in rebuild status)
AlaskaJeff is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Versys Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome