tightening the castle nut - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
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tightening the castle nut

Hi.

A continuation from another thread. Again im a complete novice so bare with me.

I have the chain where I want it. Now im tightening the castlenut to 80 ft lbs. But when doing so, I never get a click from the torque wrench and the tire is at a point where it doesn't free spin at all.

Something doesn't look right in the pic. Any more turns on the castlenut basically locks up the wheel. Thoughts? Again thanks for the help.

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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 09:53 PM
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O.O..... i think you might have killed your bearings and your wrench is shot
i personally just loosen and tighten the nut the same # of turns so the pin goes into the same holes... but thats just me

yes im a guy.
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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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The wrench is practically new.
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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D3v View Post
The wrench is practically new.
i think it might be no good

yes im a guy.
Silvie=latin for. Of the forest /woods. Fox= Vulpine (also my middle name)

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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 10:18 PM
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I've always tightened the axle nuts up to when "free spin" begins to bind then I back off the nut till "free spin" is back. Then of course make sure the nut is secured with a new cotter pin. Binding is never good, nor it being too loose any better, if not worse. If your torque wrench is "new" and reasonably calibrated then set it to 72 FtLbs and see if it'll "click". Then to 75 ftlbs and check free spin again. You will get a sense of where it is good. Set it there and forget it. However I'll not be setting it at anything less than 90% of spec.

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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 11:11 PM
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To start with, your wheel hub is pretty damn dirty... Remove the wheel again and make sure your spacers are as they should and the brake caliper is in its proper place. You're missing something. The castlenut should not go past the cotter pin holes in the axle. The other spacer is sitting right there on the floor to the left.

Last edited by invader; 02-10-2016 at 11:15 PM.
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-11-2016, 02:20 AM
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For starters, are you drinking enough tea when doing this job? In England this would definitely be considered a 2 mug job. If tea consumption isn't the problem you could look at the following:

Are you sure that the wheel was aligned after you'd tensioned the chain ie are you sure it's not binding on the brake because it's out of alignment?

When you're tightening the chain side axle nut are you using a wrench on the other side to stop it spinning?

+1 on initially setting a lower torque when tightening the nut. Start at 50lbs just to make sure it clicks there. If it does keep increasing by 10lbs until you reach your final torque. That way you can be sure that the torque wrench is working properly. If it's not clicking off at all and you keep leaning on it, you're in danger of over tightening it and killing the bearings as silviefox mentioned.

Finally, before I do anything on the bike for the first time I look at as many YouTube videos as I can to get a better idea from a range of different people about what I'm about to do. My first stop is always Delboy's Garage. This vid is great for chain adjust and lube
Obviously you'll need a mug of tea (or beverage of your choice) while you watch...

Good luck!

Tim




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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-11-2016, 07:18 AM
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possible spacer missing, possible bad wrench

that's about he only two options I can see here
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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-11-2016, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
To start with, your wheel hub is pretty damn dirty... Remove the wheel again and make sure your spacers are as they should and the brake caliper is in its proper place. You're missing something. The castlenut should not go past the cotter pin holes in the axle. The other spacer is sitting right there on the floor to the left.
Have to agree with the missing bushing...I don't start taking things apart until I have the cheap digital camera handy to boost my memory.
Just my way of doing things, but if I'm going to take it apart I'm gonna clean it all before assembly (things work & move more smoothly when clean).
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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-11-2016, 11:30 AM
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I'm PRETTY sure that a spacer is MISSING.

I do NOT think you could over-torque your axle to the point of "binding" IF all spacers are installed correctly. You WOULD ruin your axle-threads, but the wheel should STILL spin freely!

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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-11-2016, 09:36 PM
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I already told them all that in the other thread, but never mind.
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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-12-2016, 09:23 AM
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Missing spacer, torque wrench hasn't clicked because you haven't reached torque value and are just smashing the **** out of the whole assembly.
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Last edited by Markie Motard; 02-18-2016 at 08:31 AM.
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-12-2016, 04:47 PM
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I agree with Invader, the left side spacer is on the floor.
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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-12-2016, 05:06 PM
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The pic is too dark to tell but something does not look right.
Take it apart and match it up with a parts diagram.
As for a castle nut, I'm not sure what the Versys manual says but on other bikes I've had, if when the proper torque is reached and the cotter pin hole does not line up with the notches, you are to tighten the nut until it does. Usually 1/8 of a turn.
You've already gone too far with the nut so something has been misplaced.
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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-12-2016, 08:59 PM
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can't tell which one from the pic but missing a spacer is the problem. usually the 2 outer ones are obvious. any time I can see all the cotter pin hole beyond the slots in the nut I immediately think the spacer is missing from the cush drive. the drive side hub has 2 bearings, they are separated by a spacer ( p/n 42036-1251 ). the cush drive pulls apart quite easily when the wheel is off & the spacer can fall out

if I'm answering your question I assume the basic points have been addressed, such as: did you do a compression test? is it still on fire?
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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-14-2016, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blipco View Post
...As for a castle nut, I'm not sure what the Versys manual says but on other bikes I've had, if when the proper torque is reached and the cotter pin hole does not line up with the notches, you are to tighten the nut until it does....
Another (BETTER) way, is to measure how far the castle-nut's 'slot' is away from the cotter-pin hole, and in WHICH direction. Then loosen the castle-nut a bit, then put a socket onto the OFF-side (right in this case) axle head, then turn it a comparable amount to what you just measured, and in the APPROPRIATE direction, then re-try.

NOW the hole should line-up w/ the slot when the wrench "clicks" at 80'/#.... Repeat as (or IF) necessary....


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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-14-2016, 08:47 PM
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-14-2016, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fasteddiecopeman View Post
Another (BETTER) way, is to measure how far the castle-nut's 'slot' is away from the cotter-pin hole, and in WHICH direction. Then loosen the castle-nut a bit, then put a socket onto the OFF-side (right in this case) axle head, then turn it a comparable amount to what you just measured, and in the APPROPRIATE direction, then re-try.

NOW the hole should line-up w/ the slot when the wrench "clicks" at 80'/#.... Repeat as (or IF) necessary....

Hmmm, I'm not so sure. I think I've tried that. I'll pay more attention next time.
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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-18-2016, 02:09 AM
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sorry, the physics say no. unless you change parts the only way you would get a different alignment is with a different torque. I have dealt with this many times servicing aircraft wheels. I have trimmed spacers on the lathe to specific lengths base on the the thread pitch. you are usually off less than 2 flats (1/3 turn) at the desired torque. 1 turn is .083 on a 12 tpi axle... so 1/2 a flat is just about .007".... easy to figure from there. either that or be happy at however close you get. on a bike wheel, the stack up of the spacers between bearing races make a solid column that does not move, and there really isn't any force trying to undo the nut. the clamping force only needs to be a bit stronger than the rotational force the rollers exert on the inner races of the bearings .... and thats a pretty small number. I generally put motorcycle axle nuts on "gutentight" & safety wire it.... haven't lost one in 50 years.

if I'm answering your question I assume the basic points have been addressed, such as: did you do a compression test? is it still on fire?
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-18-2016, 08:33 AM
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I don't have a problem tightening the nut until the next notch on these bikes and I use a torque wrench for everything.
Reason is, I rebuilt a Triumph sportbike from the frame up. According to their factory manual, almost every nut and bolt and axle had a torque spec well in excess of what the Japs recommend. Even for the same size bolt performing the same function.
Tightening until the next notch won't do any harm as spelled out in the manual (ZZR1200 manual anyway, I haven't seen the Versys manual).
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