Has anyone cut open a standard muffler to see what is inside? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-25-2010, 11:59 PM Thread Starter
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Has anyone cut open a standard muffler to see what is inside?

Given the proliferation of slip-on cans and exhausts, some simple some complex, like the new Leo Vince? Has anyone investigated what the standard one looks like inside? There are one or two companies adding resonators and pipe length and claiming advantages
Is it just a simple box with two pipes inside like a Cherry Bomb or is it more complex.
I'm curious to know because I am interested in the theory of adding length to the system to change engine characteristics.

Last edited by versysBKK; 07-26-2010 at 03:20 AM.
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 01:08 AM
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The catalytic converter is in the center of muffler, after a 180 degree elbow:




Last edited by invader; 07-26-2010 at 01:15 AM.
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 03:18 AM Thread Starter
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OK so there is some merit to adding at least the length to the muffler to any after market system, Like Leo Vince. To make up for the length lost?
I'm only thinking road use.

Last edited by versysBKK; 07-26-2010 at 03:21 AM.
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 05:31 AM
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Leo Vince SBK GP Style Evo II slip-on adds length with a loop and a pre-muffler resonator to Versys' short exhaust, for better torque gains at 4800-6500 rpm, good horsepower gains, and a smoother sound. Leo Vince's horspower + torque charts and sound clips (ER6) for SBK GP STYLE EVO II slip-on, SBK OVAL EVO II slip-on, and SBK OVAL EVO II full system are all available here: http://www.leovinceusa.com/cart/sear...SAKI&Year=2007

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ead.php?t=6003

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ead.php?t=4964
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 06:43 AM Thread Starter
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I am/was leaning towards BOS. Primarily because I have a German contact who travels!

Last edited by versysBKK; 07-26-2010 at 07:00 AM.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 10:17 AM
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I think you would be fighting a loosing battle dealing with the factory exhaust. A quality aftermarket exhaust would be easier, look better and most likely cheaper by the time you factor in the cost of modifying the factory, then re modifying after it sucks, then a dyno tune becuase its running like ****.
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 11:50 AM
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I would love to hack up my exhaust but don't want to mess with it unless I have a replacement. Who wants to send me their old stocker that is collecting dust?

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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invader View Post
The catalytic converter is in the center of muffler, after a 180 degree elbow:



Invaders picture does not show the full exhaust gas path length of the stock pipe. Unfortunately it implies that the path is only 2 x the length of the muffler. There are some additional arrows missing. See below.



It is about 5 x the length of the muffler. No wonder it sounds like a wet F**t

Richard
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jake View Post
I think you would be fighting a loosing battle dealing with the factory exhaust. A quality aftermarket exhaust would be easier, look better and most likely cheaper by the time you factor in the cost of modifying the factory, then re modifying after it sucks, then a dyno tune becuase its running like ****.
Jake,

I am not interested in modifying a stock muffler I am more interested in how exhaust length changes characteristics. Some after market systems claim they improve torque at lower rpm but they usually dyno an ER6 because it shows higher horsepower.
Versys is already "designed" to lower the peak torque rpm? So what are the benefits of longer systems on a Versys?
Maybe Versys could be retuned back to ER6 and then have a system fitted to return peak torque rpm to stock. Best of both worlds. On the other hand if system gives Versys more torque at similar rpm that is OK to.
I'm thinking road use and touring. Extra grunt is good because we do have some nice twisties here and we can cruise at 150-160 kph on the Hwy,
I'm not really interested in volume for volumes sake as I am more of a "Q-Bike/Q-Car" kind of guy.

Last edited by versysBKK; 07-26-2010 at 11:04 PM.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 02:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TowerMan View Post
Invaders picture does not show the full exhaust gas path length of the stock pipe. Unfortunately it implies that the path is only 2 x the length of the muffler. There are some additional arrows missing.
It is about 5 x the length of the muffler.
The actual path does result in just twice the muffler's length added to exhaust system. Exhaust gases exiting the catalytic converter's perforated outlet into the muffler body's open space, can then exit through the outlet pipe... The open area within the muffler does add sound and pressure absorbing volume (space). Sound waves are being absorbed within the muffler body's open space with baffle tubes and plates, as exhaust gases flow freely between catalytic converter and muffler outlet.

Last edited by invader; 07-27-2010 at 03:00 AM.
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 10:49 AM
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I'm just curious: why would you want to bypass the catalytic converter which helps clean your exhaust?

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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by versysBKK View Post
Jake,

I am not interested in modifying a stock muffler I am more interested in how exhaust length changes characteristics. Some after market systems claim they improve torque at lower rpm but they usually dyno an ER6 because it shows higher horsepower.
Versys is already "designed" to lower the peak torque rpm? So what are the benefits of longer systems on a Versys?
Maybe Versys could be retuned back to ER6 and then have a system fitted to return peak torque rpm to stock. Best of both worlds. On the other hand if system gives Versys more torque at similar rpm that is OK to.
I'm thinking road use and touring. Extra grunt is good because we do have some nice twisties here and we can cruise at 150-160 kph on the Hwy,
I'm not really interested in volume for volumes sake as I am more of a "Q-Bike/Q-Car" kind of guy.
Unless you plan on changing your cams and all the other things that are different between the models your not going to see a big difference just off a tune. I've had the ninja650r and it did seem faster, but i enjoy the punch down low of the versys motor.
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 12:55 PM
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I'm so glad I junked this thing last week. The Two Bros. can is about 15 pounds lighter and makes super wheelie time if you aren't careful.... okay..not so super, but a little teeny different.

The *pop pop pop pop* on decelleration is annoying.
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 04:32 PM
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I'm so glad I junked this thing last week. The Two Bros. can is about 15 pounds lighter and makes super wheelie time if you aren't careful.... okay..not so super, but a little teeny different.

The *pop pop pop pop* on decelleration is annoying.
The FMF is the same. I didn't realize how much of a length difference there was, and after seeing the diagrams, I now understand why the stock is so heavy. What I am trying to figure out is if the FMF and the stocker have the same back pressure. Am I hurting my engine by using an exhaust that it wasn't designed for? Or did FMF do enough engineering to compensate for back pressure.

That, and I don't mind the pop pop pop. Makes me feel more like a race bike.
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 06:11 PM
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You can get rid of exhaust popping by sealing off the PAIR valve that admits air in the exhaust under engine braking. It is common practice with aftermarket slip-on... Setting the main throttle sensor up to spec by rotating it about 0.5 mm counteclockwise also helps cure the lean stumble and pop at around 2800 rpm. You can then also rotate subthrottle sensor also counterclockwise to bring the then raised cold fast idle back down.
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 06:48 PM
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You can get rid of exhaust popping by sealing off the PAIR valve that admits air in the exhaust under engine braking. It is common practice with aftermarket slip-on... Setting the main throttle sensor up to spec by rotating it about 0.5 mm counteclockwise also helps cure the lean stumble and pop at around 2800 rpm. You can then also rotate subthrottle sensor also counterclockwise to bring the then raised cold fast idle back down.

You sir, are hurting my brain... this will take some creative searching...
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 06:57 PM
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...... What I am trying to figure out is if the FMF and the stocker have the same back pressure. Am I hurting my engine by using an exhaust that it wasn't designed for? Or did FMF do enough engineering to compensate for back pressure.....
From the factory, the airbox snorkel size and the exhaust back pressure are tuned exactly to any overlap in cam timing. Just like a 2-stroke expansion chamber, your exhaust helps "hold" the air/gas charge in the combustion chamber during the critical overlap period (both intake and exhaust valves are open at once). I've messed with a Honda and Harley, intakes and exhausts and ended up with loud, slow bikes.
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 10:19 PM
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You sir, are hurting my brain... this will take some creative searching...
The clean air system admits air through the exhaust port outlets into exhaust system, and has no effect on the engine... I have sealed off the air suction valve on the valve cover with 1/4" aluminum plate, and the air source on the airbox with RTV silicone. I also removed the air switching valve unit by connecting its two wires together to prevent triggering the 'FI' warning light...


[/QUOTE]

Instead of going through the throuble of measuring TPS output voltage, you can try rotating your main throttle sensor by about 1/2 mm by relating to the green index mark. You can then rotate subthrottle sensor also counterclockwise to reduce the raised cold-engine fast-idle rpm back down if desired...

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...ead.php?t=1412

Look at the main (grey) throttle sensor's green alignment mark on its front from near your front left flasher, and note how it ligns up. Loosen sensor screw with T25 Torx tool. Rotate sensor counterclockwise by about half a millimeter as seen on pic. Adjust, then tighten Torx screw. Main throttle sensor's new position:



Main throttle sensor Torx screw:



Fast idle may then be higher. You can rotate subthrottle sensor (black, just above main throttle sensor) also counterclockwise with T25 Torx screw to reduce cold fast-idle rpm. I rotated mine to its maximum counterclockwise position, to which it was already near. Subthrottle sensor's new position:



The TB vacuum mod can also help smooth out bottom end and improve driveability and tractability... A 6" (15 cm) long, 1/8" (3.175 mm) inner diameter vacuum hose is added on both TB vacuum fittings, replacing the rubber plugs. The inlet air pressure sensor hose is left on its specific outer fitting which has a smaller inner diameter... I used GoodYear automotive 1/8" vacuum hose which has a thicker wall that is less prone to collapsing under vacuum pressure, and I also upgraded the IAP sensor hose with it. I also run without the subthrottle plates, by the way...

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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-08-2010, 04:39 PM
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Those sub-throttle plates are to tumble the air and reduce emissions at idle, correct? If so, turbo Subarus have the same thing in the states and once you increase the airflow, those go too....
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-09-2010, 09:51 PM
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this is getting too technical for a cutting stuff up thead
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